# Non-Racist Trump voters wondering why they're getting shit about racism **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 14, 2016, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-racist-trump-voters-wondering-why-theyre-getting-shit-about-racism/771963 "2016-11-14T14:57:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2016, 12:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-racist-trump-voters-wondering-why-theyre-getting-shit-about-racism/771963/121 "2016-11-22T12:02:26Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > Nonsense, you are suggesting a coup. The “coup” has already happened. Once they take power they can do as they please. > [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > You are defining your own terms here. “A vote for Trump makes you a racist, therefore only a racist could vote for Trump” it is clearly nonsense and only serves to alienate further. No; voting for racism makes you a racist whether it’s Trump or somebody else. Voting for Trump and the Republicans was in itself a racist act. > [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > Clearly I mean the “middle ground” of political opinion that millions in the USA hold. The “middle ground” that can reasoned with and whose votes can change, the “middle ground” of youth voters that can be amenable to reason and argument. There is no such middle ground, and looking for it has done nothing but lose the Democrats votes. And now, it’s essentially destroyed them as a meaningful political force. > [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > So further polarising politics is the way to go? that’s the better political process? The Right is out to subjugate or outright kill everyone else. Worrying about “polarizing” things has led to everyone else just letting the Right crush them. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2016, 12:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-racist-trump-voters-wondering-why-theyre-getting-shit-about-racism/771963/122 "2016-11-22T12:10:49Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > I think you miss the point entirely. > > Many people did not vote “yes to Trump” they voted “no to Clinton”. And yet a vote for Trump is a vote for Trump. I’m pretty sure “Not Clinton” wasn’t one of the options on the ballot paper. > [@](#): > > The two are entirely different mindsets. > You can make a case for such voters being ill-informed or short-termist and not fully thinking through the consequences of their actions. > > But if you want to win those people back then focusing on informing them and offering better options and outcomes is exactly what you should do. We tried that. People didn’t want to be “informed”. They wanted to vote according to their feelings. We explained that even if one believed the worst lies about Clinton one could demonstrate that Trump would be worse by every metric based on things he had actually, demonstrably, said and done. And we were told not to worry, that he didn’t really mean those things, and that we were overreacting. And now that it turns out that he really is the self-serving enabler of the alt-right we said he was, I’m having a hard time accepting “We didn’t really mean it” as an excuse. > [@](#): > > Writing them off as irredeemable and evil may be cathartic but it merely guarantees a continuation of the current situation. Screaming “BIGOT! RACIST! FASCIST!” in their face does not give them an easy option for transitioning back to a more moderate postion. And categorizing the entire anti-Trump position as “screaming BIGOT! RACIST! FASCIST! in their face” isn’t exactly a nuanced position calculated to change minds either. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2016, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-racist-trump-voters-wondering-why-theyre-getting-shit-about-racism/771963/123 "2016-11-22T12:36:48Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > The Right is out to subjugate or outright kill everyone else. Worrying about “polarizing” things has led to everyone else just letting the Right crush them. And do you think that everyone who voted for Trump is “out to subjugate or outright kill everyone else”? Is that another applicable trait that all have signed up to? ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2016, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-racist-trump-voters-wondering-why-theyre-getting-shit-about-racism/771963/124 "2016-11-22T12:54:54Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > And yet a vote for Trump is a vote for Trump. I’m pretty sure “Not Clinton” wasn’t one of the options on the ballot paper. But of course it was. It was in bold type 36 point implicitica font alongside every candidate that wasn’t Hilary Clinton. > [@](#): > > We tried that. People didn’t want to be “informed”. They wanted to vote according to their feelings. We explained that even if one believed the worst lies about Clinton one could demonstrate that Trump would be worse by every metric based on things he had actually, demonstrably, said and done. And we were told not to worry, that he didn’t really mean those things, and that we were overreacting. But not a good enough job and not a good enough candidate. The reaction to this failure should be to try again and do better not to howl into the wind until hoarse. > [@](#): > > And now that it turns out that he really is the self-serving enabler of the alt-right we said he was, I’m having a hard time accepting “We didn’t really mean it” as an excuse. Well I’d suggest you get over your acceptance problem quick-smart. If someone has genuinely fucked-up and made a bad choice then make it easy for them to get back onside. A continuing grudge will not help. > [@](#): > > And categorizing the entire anti-Trump position as “screaming BIGOT! RACIST! FASCIST! in their face” isn’t exactly a nuanced position calculated to change minds either. Good job I don’t make that claim, how can I? seeing as I hold a very strong anti-Trump position myself. It is however the position of **Der Trihs** , the poster I’m directly responding to and the specific position I’m criticising. You tell me that that is a tiny minority position then I’ll gladly say it is not an issue worth pursuing and leave it be. Do you yourself think that every Trump voter is a racist, bigoted fascist sympathiser? Of course not. Do you think some can be won back over to the democrats? Of course you do. So you think the Der Trihs position is one that will help that happen? ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2016, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-racist-trump-voters-wondering-why-theyre-getting-shit-about-racism/771963/125 "2016-11-22T13:30:41Z")
Meanwhile, in other news, Jeff Sessions, a man who was blocked by republicans in the 80s for being a racist prick, is now probably going to become the new attourney general. Any Trump voters feel like apologizing to African-Americans yet? ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2016, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-racist-trump-voters-wondering-why-theyre-getting-shit-about-racism/771963/126 "2016-11-22T13:59:24Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > The urban legend that, even cumulatively, the seriousness of those was enough to prevent her from being an excellent President who was prepared to serve the nation well. :dubious: What prevented her from being president was that she was a horrible candidate. What made her a horrible candidate would also make her a horrible president. Trump tried to paint her as crooked and she did everything she could to help him in that. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2016, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-racist-trump-voters-wondering-why-theyre-getting-shit-about-racism/771963/127 "2016-11-22T14:06:39Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > Biden wasn’t running. > > Maybe we should blame you for an astoundingly insensitive jerkish remark. > > I still remember Biden saying, quietly and eloquently, that he didn’t feel he could run. Everyone understood why. No one could possibly have imagined how events would play out. You’re right. Its not Biden’s fault. Its all on Hillary. > [@](#): > > If you’re looking for somebody to blame, uninformed racist ignoramuses is a good start. Misogynists who can’t stand ambitious women gives you another cohort to blame. And ideologically blinded diehard Republicans who would elect a feces-throwing cebus monkey as their president as long as it had an “R” after its name. Racists? Really? They’re the ones that made the difference in places like Michigan, Pennsylvania, Ohio, North Carolina, and Wisconsin? They didn’t seem to make enough of a difference to defeat a black dude with a funny foreign sounding name. For every misogynist who wouldn’t vote for Hillary because she was a woman and not because she was Hillary, there is a feminist out there that voted for Hillary despite severe misgivings about her. Those ideologically blinded diehard Republicans were there when we elected Obama, twice. Hillary lost because she is a shitty candidate. She might be an excellent bureaucrat but she can’t win elections unless someone greases the skids for her. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2016, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-racist-trump-voters-wondering-why-theyre-getting-shit-about-racism/771963/128 "2016-11-22T14:09:50Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > I think you miss the point entirely. > > Many people did not vote “yes to Trump” they voted “no to Clinton”. > > The two are entirely different mindsets. > You can make a case for such voters being ill-informed or short-termist and not fully thinking through the consequences of their actions. > > But if you want to win those people back then focusing on informing them and offering better options and outcomes is exactly what you should do. > > Writing them off as irredeemable and evil may be cathartic but it merely guarantees a continuation of the current situation. Screaming “BIGOT! RACIST! FASCIST!” in their face does not give them an easy option for transitioning back to a more moderate postion. They get their facts from Twitter, Facebook, Fox, Breitbart, and InfoWars. Anything that goes against that “narrative” is met with verbal abuse and physical threats. Ask me how I know. I don’t WANT to win or convince them. I want them to stop waving that damn flag and spouting their “sovereign citizen”, “took er jerbs”, “yer a traitor” bullshit, and crawl back in their fucking cave. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2016, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-racist-trump-voters-wondering-why-theyre-getting-shit-about-racism/771963/129 "2016-11-22T14:10:59Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > And people are \*still \*whining about how we shouldn’t hurt their feelings. It’s OK to openly praise the Nazis, but a _horrible, terrible thing_ to say that doing so is racist. We have a winner! ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2016, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-racist-trump-voters-wondering-why-theyre-getting-shit-about-racism/771963/130 "2016-11-22T14:14:47Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > You’re right. Its not Biden’s fault. Its all on Hillary. > > Racists? Really? They’re the ones that made the difference in places like Michigan, Pennsylvania, Ohio, North Carolina, and Wisconsin? They didn’t seem to make enough of a difference to defeat a black dude with a funny foreign sounding name. > > For every misogynist who wouldn’t vote for Hillary because she was a woman and not because she was Hillary, there is a feminist out there that voted for Hillary despite severe misgivings about her. > > Those ideologically blinded diehard Republicans were there when we elected Obama, twice. > > Hillary lost because she is a shitty candidate. She might be an excellent bureaucrat but she can’t win elections unless someone greases the skids for her. She lost for a ton of reasons, any one of which probably would have been enough to have her win had it not occurred. If she had spent a few weeks and a bit more advertising $ and ground-game resources in WI, MI, and PA, she probably would have won. If fewer Americans were tolerant of racism/bigotry (whether or not they have racist/bigoted beliefs themselves), she would have won. If Comey hadn’t made that silly announcement in October, she probably would have won. If the media had not focused so much on the silly email stuff, she probably would have won. If she had more charisma, she probably would have won. If she had picked a VP that legitimately inspired minority voters, she probably would have won. It was really, really close. I blame her (as well as Democrats like myself for being in a bubble), but I blame Americans’ tolerance for racism as well, and that’s a much, much bigger problem than Hillary Clinton. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2016, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-racist-trump-voters-wondering-why-theyre-getting-shit-about-racism/771963/131 "2016-11-22T14:21:55Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > But not a good enough job and not a good enough candidate. The reaction to this failure should be to try again and do better not to howl into the wind until hoarse. “It’s your fault for not stopping me from destroying the country” is an argument I would expect from a Batman villain. It’s much less compelling from a voter. > [@](#): > > Well I’d suggest you get over your acceptance problem quick-smart. If someone has genuinely fucked-up and made a bad choice then make it easy for them to get back onside. A continuing grudge will not help. I’m not holding a grudge. At this point I’m trying to stage a goddamn intervention to get them to realize just how much they fucked up. And the response I’m getting from a lot of the “I’m not racist, I just didn’t want to vote for Clinton” voters is…[a tad optimistic](http://gunshowcomic.com/648). Step 1 is always recognizing that there is a problem in the first place. > [@](#): > > Good job I don’t make that claim, how can I? seeing as I hold a very strong anti-Trump position myself. It is however the position of **Der Trihs** , the poster I’m directly responding to and the specific position I’m criticising. You tell me that that is a tiny minority position then I’ll gladly say it is not an issue worth pursuing and leave it be. > > Do you yourself think that every Trump voter is a racist, bigoted fascist sympathiser? Of course not. > Do you think some can be won back over to the democrats? > Of course you do. > So you think the Der Trihs position is one that will help that happen? To be fair, as a rule I think **Der Trihs** is hysterical. And not in the “really funny” way. But occasionally he lands on some valid points. And while I don’t think Trump has staged a “coup”, I think he’s already beginning to do immense damage to the country and to the office to which he has been elected, damage which will take generations to fix (if it can be). But I guess we can all take comfort in the fact that it’s all somehow Clinton’s fault. > [@Damuri Ajashi](#): > > What prevented her from being president was that she was a horrible candidate. And Trump was worse. > [@](#): > > What made her a horrible candidate would also make her a horrible president. And Trump moreso. > [@](#): > > Trump tried to paint her as crooked and she did everything she could to help him in that. And Trump did everything to demonstrate how much more unstable, untrustworthy and unprepared he was. And people voted for him anyway. Again, this is the problem: by every metric one can criticize Clinton on, _ **Trump was worse** _. At some point you have to accept [del]you’re not just here for the hunting[/del] people voted for Trump because they wanted to vote for Trump. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2016, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-racist-trump-voters-wondering-why-theyre-getting-shit-about-racism/771963/132 "2016-11-22T14:33:38Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > Why should she have? Private speaking engagements are a product that all high profile politicians sell for stupid amounts of money. Demanding that she release her speeches is like demanding that Herman Cain give everyone free pizzas. You think people are paying her $250,000 for the CONTENT of those speeches? Its this sort of excuse making for Hillary that is preventing us from self reflection on how we lost to someone like Donald Fucking Trump. If losing to Donald Trump isn’t a moment for self reflection, then I don’t know what is. Keeping her transcripts secret gave Trump license to keep his tax returns private, when some of her speeches were released it showed that she was in fact talking out of both sides of her mouth. She says it was out of context but then fails to provide the context. > [@](#): > > Compared to whom? The guy still holding a grudge over the “short fingers” remark decades later? > > And on the point about lack of transparency, Trump not only never released his tax returns but constantly lied about the reasons why. On pretty much every metric that Clinton scores poorly on, Trump is worse. Trump didn’t have the chair of the RNC in the bag for him. Trump didn’t have the media feeding him debate questions. > [@](#): > > But no, those tiny nuggets are not the urban legends we’re talking about. We’re talking urban legends like the vast and groundless bullshit around Benghazi, the one about how the Clinton Foundation “kept 90% of the money (which somehow the Clintons kept”, and one that Clinton deliberately used a private email account to avoid scrutiny rather than for personal convenience like her predecessors. Your attempts to pick sweetcorn out of a pile of turds doesn’t change the fact that the lies were the overwhelming narrative. I don’t think Benghazi had much to do with it. I don’t recall it being much of a talking point during the election. You know the first time I heard of a link between Hillary Clinton as secretary of state and the Clinton foundation was during the Keystone XL approval process. Keystone XL (which I support) was approved by the state department very quickly and the environmentalists questioned large donations by Keystone XL stakeholders to the Clinton Foundation. Maybe they’re using it to solve world hunger and cure cancer (AFAICT, getting even a token amount from the Clinton foundation is a gateway towards getting lots of funding from other sources) but its not just the right that was questioning the connection. Hillary’s use of private servers is actually NOT like her predecessors. For example, Colin Powell and Condoleeza Rice’s use of private email accounts would not have gotten them fired if he were a career bureaucrat. Hillary’s use of a private email server probably would have. Her erasure of emails after she was issued a subpoena would almost certainly have gotten her fired. Any comparison between her and Colin Powell and Condoleeza Rice is either ignorance or deception. I don’t think she was a spy or anything but she doesn’t seem to think that rules apply to her. She spent the entire campaign telling Bernie supporter to get over it, he lost. As she adds Debbie Wasserman Schultz to her campaign. Then we find out that she was being fed questions by the media. Sure, Bernie would probably STILL have lost but its still cheating. Its wasn’t the lies that made her unpalatable to Democrats and independents. It wasn’t the lies that made Democrats to stay home on election night. It wasn’t lies that lost her a state where the Republicans poisoned children to save a few bucks and push privatization of municipal water. It was the truth. And the inconvenient truth right now that we all need to face is that we made a huge mistake in nominating Hillary. People act like Trump is some unbeatable juggernaut that would have beaten anyone that Demcrats could have put up. Does anybody actually believe that or are they just saying that because they want to excuse Hillary for losing? ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2016, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-racist-trump-voters-wondering-why-theyre-getting-shit-about-racism/771963/133 "2016-11-22T14:41:55Z")
Refer to Gyrate’s post. No matter what you say, no matter how you spin it, Trump was worse (than ANYbody else). That is the bottom line. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2016, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-racist-trump-voters-wondering-why-theyre-getting-shit-about-racism/771963/134 "2016-11-22T14:42:12Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > She lost for a ton of reasons, any one of which probably would have been enough to have her win had it not occurred. If she had spent a few weeks and a bit more advertising $ and ground-game resources in WI, MI, and PA, she probably would have won. If fewer Americans were tolerant of racism/bigotry (whether or not they have racist/bigoted beliefs themselves), she would have won. If Comey hadn’t made that silly announcement in October, she probably would have won. If the media had not focused so much on the silly email stuff, she probably would have won. If she had more charisma, she probably would have won. If she had picked a VP that legitimately inspired minority voters, she probably would have won. It was really, really close. > > I blame her (as well as Democrats like myself for being in a bubble), but I blame Americans’ tolerance for racism as well, and that’s a much, much bigger problem than Hillary Clinton. I agree. The racism (and sexism) is a bigger problem than the myopia of one political party. The kneejerk response to all issues regarding race and sex is also a problem. Duke Lacrosse team (I am guilty of that one), UVA rolling stone rape story (I am guilty of that one too), Pretty much anything Al Sharpton is involved with, most of what BLM protests. ---
**Author:** ![Walmarticus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Walmarticus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walmarticus)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2016, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-racist-trump-voters-wondering-why-theyre-getting-shit-about-racism/771963/135 "2016-11-22T14:45:21Z")
doesn’t the right wing think it’s like supposed to be _Muslims_ job to come out and explain how ‘these Jihadists don’t represent me’ and anti-Islam bigotry is partly their own fault for not being loud enough with their criticisms of the extremists? So call out your own man as a goddamned racist once in a while! There’s been plenty of chances. Anyway, there still is a chance that not every single Trump voter is racist, so give them a break. Like how bad would you feel if some of them literally lived under rocks and here you are calling them racists when their only problem is they were living under rocks? Also, shaming people for voting Trump could distort public opinion polls and make it harder for people like Clinton in places like Wisconsin. And I know plenty of Trump supporters in my wife’s family. So I wouldn’t call them racists because I might need to like borrow tools or whatever. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2016, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-racist-trump-voters-wondering-why-theyre-getting-shit-about-racism/771963/136 "2016-11-22T14:46:48Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > And Trump was worse. He won. He might be a horrible person, but he was a better candidate. > [@](#): > > And Trump moreso. Not for the same reasons. > [@](#): > > And Trump did everything to demonstrate how much more unstable, untrustworthy and unprepared he was. And people voted for him anyway. > > Again, this is the problem: by every metric one can criticize Clinton on, _ **Trump was worse** _. At some point you have to accept [del]you’re not just here for the hunting[/del] people voted for Trump because they wanted to vote for Trump. Sure, Trump voters bear their responsibility for voting for Trump but there is no self reflection necessary for them yet, they got what they wanted (or so they think). Trump didn’t win because so many people voted for him, Trump won because so many people DIDN’T vote for Hillary. And part of the reason for that is because of Hillary. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2016, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-racist-trump-voters-wondering-why-theyre-getting-shit-about-racism/771963/137 "2016-11-22T14:48:23Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > Refer to Gyrate’s post. No matter what you say, no matter how you spin it, Trump was worse (than ANYbody else). > > That is the bottom line. He won. Hillary lost. Hillary lost to one of the worst people to ever run as a major party candidate. WTF does that say about Hillary? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2016, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-racist-trump-voters-wondering-why-theyre-getting-shit-about-racism/771963/138 "2016-11-22T14:53:50Z")
That getting more votes than the other guy don’t mean shit. ---
**Author:** ![Count\_Blucher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Count\_Blucher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Count_Blucher)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2016, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-racist-trump-voters-wondering-why-theyre-getting-shit-about-racism/771963/139 "2016-11-22T15:01:09Z")
Until they start to use the phrase “Radicalized Domestic Terrorist Republicans” and until these so-called non-racist Republicans start providing good intel on “Radicalized Domestic Terrorist Republicans” to Homeland Security, we can’t possibly hope to address the problem. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2016, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-racist-trump-voters-wondering-why-theyre-getting-shit-about-racism/771963/140 "2016-11-22T15:59:07Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > You think people are paying her $250,000 for the CONTENT of those speeches? Its this sort of excuse making for Hillary that is preventing us from self reflection on how we lost to someone like Donald Fucking Trump. If losing to Donald Trump isn’t a moment for self reflection, then I don’t know what is. I used to book speakers for events. No, nobody really cares that much about the content of the speeches. Mostly they’re ego boosts for people for whom being able to pay a stupid amount of money to spend two hours in the same room as [famous person] and maybe shake their hand at some point makes them feel important and special. But if _anyone_ can see the content of the speeches the audience don’t feel special anymore and don’t go. This is not rocket science here. > [@](#): > > Keeping her transcripts secret gave Trump license to keep his tax returns private This is a ludicrous rationalization. Clinton released her tax returns going back decades. Trump refused to. And why not “keeping his tax returns secret gave Clinton license to keep her speeches secret”? Again - why is the burden on Clinton to give her opponent everything he asked for when he’s not budging an inch? This is the same bullshit that demanded that Obama release his birth certificate, and then his long-form birth certificate, and then his college transcripts - it’s just looking for an excuse to claim a lack of transparency while not remotely holding the other side to anything like the same standard. > [@](#): > > when some of her speeches were released it showed that she was in fact talking out of both sides of her mouth. She says it was out of context but then fails to provide the context. And yet Trump openly and repeatedly contradicted his policy positions multiple times throughout the campaign. One more metric by which Trump was far worse, and nobody cared. > [@](#): > > Trump didn’t have the chair of the RNC in the bag for him. And that’s somehow relevant because…? I mean, I’m no fan of DWS by any means but I have a hard time getting too upset because the DNC preferred the actual Democrat to the carpetbagging independent. In fact the RNC tried to sandbag Trump in the same way and for the same reasons. Does that make him a “better candidate”? Or should we start blaming Rubio and Cruz too? > [@](#): > > I don’t think Benghazi had much to do with it. I don’t recall it being much of a talking point during the election. Not by Trump so much, but certainly amongst the anti-Clinton crowd. > [@](#): > > You know the first time I heard of a link between Hillary Clinton as secretary of state and the Clinton foundation was during the Keystone XL approval process. Keystone XL (which I support) was approved by the state department very quickly and the environmentalists questioned large donations by Keystone XL stakeholders to the Clinton Foundation. Maybe they’re using it to solve world hunger and cure cancer (AFAICT, getting even a token amount from the Clinton foundation is a gateway towards getting lots of funding from other sources) but its not just the right that was questioning the connection. I’m seeing a lot of insinuation here and little in the way of evidence. “People were saying”. > [@](#): > > Hillary’s use of private servers is actually NOT like her predecessors. For example, Colin Powell and Condoleeza Rice’s use of private email accounts would not have gotten them fired if he were a career bureaucrat. Hillary’s use of a private email server probably would have. Powell deliberately went against the security protocols he was repeatedly told and used an **AOL account** to conduct state business. Clinton used a secure server which didn’t involve an unsecured third party ISP. Yet somehow you think she’s worse. > [@](#): > > Her erasure of emails after she was issued a subpoena would almost certainly have gotten her fired. [The timetable isn’t quite so clearcut as that](http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/09/us/politics/hillary-clinton-emails-investigation.html), but please keep repeating this if it makes you feel better. > [@](#): > > Any comparison between her and Colin Powell and Condoleeza Rice is either ignorance or deception. I don’t think she was a spy or anything but she doesn’t seem to think that rules apply to her. There’s certainly a lot of ignorance or deception here, but it’s not on my part. Rice didn’t use email much so there’s no comparison to be made but Powell did, while using an unsecured account and while admitting that he got tired of being told not to do this and decided to do it anyway. So tell me again how it’s Clinton who thinks the rules don’t apply to her. > [@](#): > > She spent the entire campaign telling Bernie supporter to get over it, he lost. As she adds Debbie Wasserman Schultz to her campaign. Then we find out that she was being fed questions by the media. Sure, Bernie would probably STILL have lost but its still cheating. So she was the better candidate after all? > [@](#): > > Its wasn’t the lies that made her unpalatable to Democrats and independents. It wasn’t the lies that made Democrats to stay home on election night. It wasn’t lies that lost her a state where the Republicans poisoned children to save a few bucks and push privatization of municipal water. It was the truth. Well, that, and a [few other things](http://www.courthousenews.com/2016/11/07/michigan-dems-add-to-voter-suppression-claims.htm). > [@](#): > > And the inconvenient truth right now that we all need to face is that we made a huge mistake in nominating Hillary. Again - as opposed to whom? Where is the righteous candidate who would have slain the Trumpian jabberwocky? > [@](#): > > People act like Trump is some unbeatable juggernaut that would have beaten anyone that Demcrats could have put up. Does anybody actually believe that or are they just saying that because they want to excuse Hillary for losing? And yet he defeated the entire GOP “deep bench” quite handily. Were they all liars and cheats? Was every single one of them so deeply flawed that “even Donald Trump” beat them? And do you really think Bernie Sanders - the self-proclaimed “democratic socialist” - would have beaten Trump? Because I’m pretty sure he wouldn’t have. The sad truth is that the zeitgeist is swinging back into reactionary and xenophobic territory, and Trump was the right man to seize upon it. We’ve seen similar shifts in the UK with the Brexit vote, in France with the current election, and even in places like Turkey. It is a narrative that the media have been eager to promote, and that the voters have been eager to embrace. And it’s not Clinton’s fault that this is so. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-racist-trump-voters-wondering-why-theyre-getting-shit-about-racism/771963.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-racist-trump-voters-wondering-why-theyre-getting-shit-about-racism/771963.md?page=8)