# Non religious gay conversion? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 26, 2009, 10:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-religious-gay-conversion/519018 "2009-11-26T10:24:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Incref](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/f17d59/32.png) [@Incref](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Incref)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2009, 10:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-religious-gay-conversion/519018/1 "2009-11-26T10:24:53Z")
As the title says are there any groups, therapies, etc which say they can ‘reprogramme’ gay people? I can only find faith based groups. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2009, 11:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-religious-gay-conversion/519018/2 "2009-11-26T11:15:01Z")
There’s a simple reason for that. Who else would have any reason to (attempt to) “reprogram” someone? What non-religious organizations would have such a thing as their agenda? ---
**Author:** ![firstname](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7ab992/32.png) [@firstname](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/firstname)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2009, 11:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-religious-gay-conversion/519018/3 "2009-11-26T11:20:02Z")
There might be a “therapist” out there who would “help” with this “problem”.:rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![psychonaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/psychonaut/32/4655_2.png) [@psychonaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychonaut)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2009, 11:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-religious-gay-conversion/519018/4 "2009-11-26T11:40:53Z")
> [@panache45](#): > > There’s a simple reason for that. Who else would have any reason to (attempt to) “reprogram” someone? What non-religious organizations would have such a thing as their agenda? Pretty much all of organized psychiatry prior to homosexuality’s removal from the DSM in the 1970s. Homosexuality is still viewed as aberrant behaviour by some nominally atheistic regimes, such as China’s, and so presumably you could find non-faith-based “treatment” there. ---
**Author:** ![Incref](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/f17d59/32.png) [@Incref](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Incref)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2009, 12:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-religious-gay-conversion/519018/5 "2009-11-26T12:29:12Z")
Wow, that’s many an inverted comma. I know you’re all trying to be totally PC but I’m not looking for treatment, I’m just wondering if consenting atheist adults who’d prefer to be attracted to the opposite sex have an option. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2009, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-religious-gay-conversion/519018/6 "2009-11-26T14:02:12Z")
> [@Incref](#): > > Wow, that’s many an inverted comma. I know you’re all trying to be totally PC but I’m not looking for treatment, I’m just wondering if consenting atheist adults who’d prefer to be attracted to the opposite sex have an option. Of course, but it’s difficult to separate the question of whether change is possible . . . from the question of why change is desirable. Are there places that attempt to reprogram straight people? And this has nothing to do with being PC. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2009, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-religious-gay-conversion/519018/7 "2009-11-26T15:44:35Z")
> [@panache45](#): > > Are there places that attempt to reprogram straight people? Prison? (I’m kidding! Don’t hurt me!) ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2009, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-religious-gay-conversion/519018/8 "2009-11-26T16:17:40Z")
I haven’t heard of any, perhaps because they are trained that homosexuality is normal and the treatment route may be to accept who you are. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2009, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-religious-gay-conversion/519018/9 "2009-11-26T18:57:30Z")
The hack Socarides’ organization, [NARTH](http://www.narth.com/index.html), is ostensibly a non-religious scientific organization. Of course, in reality, it’s firmly anti-science homophobia that sprang from the diseased minds of Charles Socarides and Joseph Nicolosi. ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2009, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-religious-gay-conversion/519018/10 "2009-11-27T00:31:08Z")
> [@Incref](#): > > Wow, that’s many an inverted comma. I know you’re all trying to be totally PC but I’m not looking for treatment, I’m just wondering if consenting atheist adults who’d prefer to be attracted to the opposite sex have an option. I’ve never heard of any secular group or individual who specialized in “converting” homosexuals, but it would probably be possible to find some kind of professional therapist who’d be willing to work with a patient on this. I’m sure the majority of legitimate licensed therapists would refuse because they’d consider it both unethical and a lost cause, but if this hypothetical gay atheist started calling around they might eventually find someone. I think most decent therapists would be more interested in _why_ this gay atheist wanted to change, and in helping them to deal with whatever issues they had that were preventing them from being happy with their sexual orientation. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2009, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-religious-gay-conversion/519018/11 "2009-11-27T04:04:24Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > The hack Socarides’ organization, [NARTH](http://www.narth.com/index.html), is ostensibly a non-religious scientific organization. > > Of course, in reality, it’s firmly anti-science homophobia that sprang from the diseased minds of Charles Socarides and Joseph Nicolosi. Isn’t NARTH related to Scientology? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2009, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-religious-gay-conversion/519018/12 "2009-11-27T05:21:12Z")
> [@Incref](#): > > Wow, that’s many an inverted comma. I know you’re all trying to be totally PC but I’m not looking for treatment, I’m just wondering if consenting atheist adults who’d prefer to be attracted to the opposite sex have an option. Even if there were non-faith-based conversion programs, they’d only have “an option” in the sense that there would be something they could try. Reorientation programs [don’t work](http://psychology.ucdavis.edu/rainbow/html/facts_changing.html). ---
**Author:** ![ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2009, 5:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-religious-gay-conversion/519018/13 "2009-11-27T05:27:44Z")
A bit off topic, but you may find some relevant information looking at transsexual resources. It is not uncommon to have people who (prior to transitioning) prefer homosexual partners and then after transitioning they prefer to be homosexual in the other direction, preffering the gender that was heterosexual to the gender they were prior to transitioning. I don’t know if such resources would use the term “reprogramming” but I know there is legit therapy associated with helping such transitioned/transitioning folks navigate through such changes in themselves. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2009, 5:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-religious-gay-conversion/519018/14 "2009-11-27T05:27:50Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Isn’t NARTH related to Scientology? I’d never heard that, and a quick Google search doesn’t appear to give anything definite. There are quite a few cases where NARTH is _compared_ to Scientology or where NARTH and Scientology are mentioned on the same webpage, but I didn’t find anything actually linking them operationally. ---
**Author:** ![Incref](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/f17d59/32.png) [@Incref](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Incref)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2009, 9:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-religious-gay-conversion/519018/15 "2009-11-27T09:53:52Z")
> [@Lamia](#): > > I think most decent therapists would be more interested in _why_ this gay atheist wanted to change, and in helping them to deal with whatever issues they had that were preventing them from being happy with their sexual orientation. Thanks. This actually put into perspective what I’ve been feeling. I know this is GQ so I’ll keep it brief but basically I’ve reconnected with someone I was with for about 8 years during my younger years and realised I’m still in love with them, it never worked sexually before and I suppose I was hoping there would be some way it could work now. I just still have a real issue with the long term, white picket fence, family style, gay relationship. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2009, 9:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-religious-gay-conversion/519018/16 "2009-11-27T09:58:19Z")
> [@Incref](#): > > I just still have a real issue with the long term, white picket fence, family style, gay relationship. For the most part, it’s really not different from a straight relationship. It works for some people, not for others. ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2009, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-religious-gay-conversion/519018/17 "2009-11-27T13:02:45Z")
Sounds like there’s a lot of frustration there. I’m sorry that the situation is difficult. On a lighter note, I strongly urge the adoption of the term “gaytheist” into general use, for any subsequent discussions of this nature. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2009, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-religious-gay-conversion/519018/18 "2009-11-27T19:44:32Z")
> [@Sailboat](#): > > On a lighter note, I strongly urge the adoption of the term “gaytheist” into general use, for any subsequent discussions of this nature. I heard that term back in the 70s. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Slant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c57346/32.png) [@Mr.Slant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Slant)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2009, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-religious-gay-conversion/519018/19 "2009-11-27T20:36:51Z")
> [@Incref](#): > > Thanks. This actually put into perspective what I’ve been feeling. I know this is GQ so I’ll keep it brief but basically I’ve reconnected with someone I was with for about 8 years during my younger years and realised I’m still in love with them, it never worked sexually before and I suppose I was hoping there would be some way it could work now. I just still have a real issue with the long term, white picket fence, family style, gay relationship. Marry 'em, that way you’ll never have to worry about sex with them again. In all seriousness, good luck, but I think your idea is a pipe dream. I can’t recall ever having heard of or seen a successful conversion of Full-On Gay to Straight conversion. I’ve heard tell dozens of times and seen a handful of times the “bisexual and favors X gender” turn into “Happy to Only Be With Y gender”. Not sure how those cases turned out. Best of luck, though. I hope your heart goes somewhere happy, just like I wish for your prospective wrong-gendered-soulmate-type-person. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2009, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-religious-gay-conversion/519018/20 "2009-11-27T20:43:09Z")
> [@Sailboat](#): > > On a lighter note, I strongly urge the adoption of the term “gaytheist” into general use, for any subsequent discussions of this nature. I have to wonder how I’ve never thought of that word to describe people who tell me “I don’t believe in homosexuality”, as if it were some sort of religion. I think people who tell me that should be called “gaytheists” at every opportunity. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-religious-gay-conversion/519018.md?page=2)