# Non religious gay conversion? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 26, 2009, 10:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-religious-gay-conversion/519018 "2009-11-26T10:24:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Laudenum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7993a0/32.png) [@Laudenum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Laudenum)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2009, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-religious-gay-conversion/519018/21 "2009-11-27T21:27:10Z")
> [@Incref](#): > > As the title says are there any groups, therapies, etc which say they can ‘reprogramme’ gay people? I can only find faith based groups. I vaguely recall reading an article about scientists who turned a gay bull straight. ---
**Author:** ![Lethal\_Babydoll](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/3be4f8/32.png) [@Lethal\_Babydoll](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lethal_Babydoll)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2009, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-religious-gay-conversion/519018/22 "2009-11-28T23:32:55Z")
A really bad relationship has converted a couple of friends of mine ---
**Author:** ![Alex\_Dubinsky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dbc845/32.png) [@Alex\_Dubinsky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alex_Dubinsky)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2009, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-religious-gay-conversion/519018/23 "2009-11-29T01:44:30Z")
> [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](#): > > A bit off topic, but you may find some relevant information looking at transsexual resources. It is not uncommon to have people who (prior to transitioning) prefer homosexual partners and then after transitioning they prefer to be homosexual in the other direction, preffering the gender that was heterosexual to the gender they were prior to transitioning. > > I don’t know if such resources would use the term “reprogramming” but I know there is legit therapy associated with helping such transitioned/transitioning folks navigate through such changes in themselves. hahaha ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2009, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-religious-gay-conversion/519018/24 "2009-11-29T01:51:05Z")
Back in the 70s I was briefly a member of Gay Atheists of America, and we regularly used the word “gaytheist” to describe ourselves. To the OP: You’ve been rather obtuse about a few things. The person you’re considering reconnecting with, whom you have described as “them”: would that be a same-sex relationship, and you’re looking for self-acceptance . . . or would that be a hetero relationship, and you’re looking for a way to change, so you can enjoy sex with that person? We don’t even know what gender you are, let alone the other person. ---
**Author:** ![Alex\_Dubinsky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dbc845/32.png) [@Alex\_Dubinsky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alex_Dubinsky)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2009, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-religious-gay-conversion/519018/25 "2009-11-29T01:53:29Z")
I think it’s not fair what others are implying regarding, “you’re gay, deal with it, we won’t help you.” It is obvious to anyone with a brain (or, apparently, a freshly constructed vagina), that sexual preference is, at least in theory, a malleable thing. In practice, though, it is much more difficult. Trying to change something like that is like trying to change any other deeply engrained part of your psychology. And the worst way to do it, the way the Bruno movie depicted religious people going about it, is to constantly say to yourself, “stop being gay, stop checking out that hunk’s ass. must. think. straight. thoughts.” If this is the way most other reorientation groups go about it, then it’s no wonder that they’re miserable failures. But ultimately, anyone has to realize that it’s natural to see sexual attraction in the common gender, just as it is to see it in the opposite, just as it is to see it in your close relatives, in inappropriately young people, etc. But most people get to a level where they are comfortable with it and just don’t think about it. (That is the meaning when someone says “I am comfortable with my sexuality” after mentioning how they recognize Brad Pitt is hot.) I don’t know how to help you stop thinking about it, though. But, like I said, the Bruno-depicted reorientation way is 180 degrees from the right approach. Maybe see a buddhist monk? Or find a really big placebo pill. ---
**Author:** ![don\_t\_ask](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@don\_t\_ask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_t_ask)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2009, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-religious-gay-conversion/519018/26 "2009-11-29T02:07:48Z")
In March Scientific American reported that [a British study](http://www.scientificamerican.com/blog/60-second-science/post.cfm?id=psychotherapists-trying-to-treat-pa-2009-03-26) indicated that one in 25 British psychiatrists and psychologists say they would be willing to help homosexual and bisexual patients try to convert to heterosexuality. The piece speculates that rates may be higher elsewhere. In a follow up piece they discussed [Masters and Johnson](http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=homosexuality-cure-masters-johnson) and their cured homosexuals. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2009, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-religious-gay-conversion/519018/27 "2009-11-29T03:11:47Z")
Anyone who falls into the bisexual area in the Kinsey scale can certainly be influenced to live an exclusively homo or hetero lifestyle. In fact all they really need is to fall in love with someone of either gender, and make a commitment. And many believe that the vast majority of humans fall into this “malleable” category. But some of us are on one end or the other of that scale, and nobody has ever convinced me that any kind of “conversion” is possible . . . or desirable. Suppose two totally hetero guys are best buddies, and want to spend the rest of their lives together as a same-sex couple. Are there therapies that can successfully convert them? ---
**Author:** ![Alex\_Dubinsky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dbc845/32.png) [@Alex\_Dubinsky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alex_Dubinsky)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2009, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-religious-gay-conversion/519018/28 "2009-11-29T03:25:36Z")
> [@panache45](#): > > But some of us are on one end or the other of that scale, and nobody has ever convinced me that any kind of “conversion” is possible . . . or desirable. Suppose two totally hetero guys are best buddies, and want to spend the rest of their lives together as a same-sex couple. Are there therapies that can successfully convert them? Depends how many hang-ups they’ve got about being homo. I think it’s very much possible. If they’re thrust into a social atmosphere where it is very accepted or encouraged (and they integrate into the new social group, etc.), I can even imagine them bulldozing through ingrained homophobia. The environment in such a case can change mindsets drastically. It’s all in the circumstances. If you just have two ordinary, straight guys living in ordinary America, surrounded by ordinary hetero people, then I agree it’d be quite the challenge. Possibly if they succeed short-term, they’ll regret and be troubled by it later. It’s especially hard to just _will_ your mindset to change. It’s almost like evolution evolved mechanisms to stop this. (Imagine sometime in the past we could use our intellect to change ourselves any which way, and hilarity/chaos ensued.) So it could be very easy, or it could be impossible. Funny how the mind works. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2009, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-religious-gay-conversion/519018/29 "2009-11-29T03:36:25Z")
> [@Lamia](#): > > …I think most decent therapists would be more interested in _why_ this gay atheist wanted to change, and in helping them to deal with whatever issues they had that were preventing them from being happy with their sexual orientation. Really? I can certainly understand why a person might not want to be gay. There’s a fair number of self-loathing fundamentalist christians around, who simply cannot reconcile their feelings with the religious crap they’ve been fed all their lives. But even aside from obvious cases, who wouldn’t want to receive better treatment from society? Gay people are widely discriminated against and even hated by an unfortunately large part of the population. And because of it, straight people have a lot more options in life. I have no evidence at all of this, but it wouldn’t surprise me at all if a very large percentage of closeted gays would become straight if they could undergo some treatment to do so. ---
**Author:** ![don\_t\_ask](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@don\_t\_ask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_t_ask)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2009, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-religious-gay-conversion/519018/30 "2009-11-29T03:59:13Z")
I agree with **Boyo Jim**. Even among the gay guys and women I have known I know several who would, I believe, change like a shot if possible. Each of them tried to have at least one heterosexual relationship. However someone would have to prove without doubt that being gay is a choice brought about by factors A,B and C. Then they would have to a therapy that changed their sexual focus without making them feel bad about their “choice” of homosexuality. It would also help if the therapy was more successful than most attempts to quit smoking. ---
**Author:** ![ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2009, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-religious-gay-conversion/519018/31 "2009-11-29T04:07:40Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > Really? I can certainly understand why a person might not want to be gay. There’s a fair number of self-loathing fundamentalist christians around, who simply cannot reconcile their feelings with the religious crap they’ve been fed all their lives. > > But even aside from obvious cases, who wouldn’t want to receive better treatment from society? Gay people are widely discriminated against and even hated by an unfortunately large part of the population. And because of it, straight people have a lot more options in life. > > I have no evidence at all of this, but it wouldn’t surprise me at all if a very large percentage of closeted gays would become straight if they could undergo some treatment to do so. Large percentage? I doubt it. But that is one of the polarizing concepts. People who think trying to reconcile sexual preference with one’s upbringing and living against the grain of society is the healthier/easier/better option vs people who think is healthier/easier/better to live in a constant state of denial of something as ingrained and intimately a part of a person as sexual preference and behavior can be. ---
**Author:** ![ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2009, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-religious-gay-conversion/519018/32 "2009-11-29T04:09:26Z")
> [@don\_t\_ask](#): > > Each of them tried to have at least one heterosexual relationship. You say this like it is an uncommon trait among the LGBT population. It is not uncommon. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2009, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-religious-gay-conversion/519018/33 "2009-11-29T04:09:51Z")
> [@don\_t\_ask](#): > > I…It would also help if the therapy was more successful than most attempts to quit smoking. Oh, man, I can think of a lot of funny SNL scenarios comparing sexual reorientation with smoking cessation, especially the relapses. The gay patch, anti-sodomy gum, they practically write themselves. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2009, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-religious-gay-conversion/519018/34 "2009-11-29T04:15:30Z")
> [@Alex\_Dubinsky](#): > > hahaha 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2009, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-religious-gay-conversion/519018/35 "2009-11-29T04:18:34Z")
> [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](#): > > Large percentage? I doubt it. But that is one of the polarizing concepts. People who think trying to reconcile sexual preference with one’s upbringing and living against the grain of society is the healthier/easier/better option vs people who think is healthier/easier/better to live in a constant state of denial of something as ingrained and intimately a part of a person as sexual preference and behavior can be. That is not my point at all. First of all, I specified closeted gays, who are already living with a large burden of denial. Second, I was referring to some theoretical therapy that doesn’t exist in today’s world – some therapy that does genuinely change sexual orientation. I think there’s a pretty good chance such a therapy will be available in the future – a drug or a gene therapy that will work directly on the brain to change orientation. In any desired direction. ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2009, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-religious-gay-conversion/519018/36 "2009-11-29T05:10:43Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > Really? I can certainly understand why a person might not want to be gay. So what? I can understand why a black person might not want to be black too. That doesn’t mean it’s the sort of thing a therapist could help them with, except in the way that I described above – find out why the patient wanted to change, and help them deal with whatever issues were preventing them from being happy with themselves. There’s really nothing more that could be done for a self-loathing homosexual, aside from providing support if they want to remain celibate. There is no effective “treatment” for homosexuality, so an ethical therapist could not offer a “cure” that doesn’t exist. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2009, 5:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-religious-gay-conversion/519018/37 "2009-11-29T05:31:11Z")
> [@Lamia](#): > > So what? I can understand why a black person might not want to be black too. That doesn’t mean it’s the sort of thing a therapist could help them with, except in the way that I described above – find out why the patient wanted to change, and help them deal with whatever issues were preventing them from being happy with themselves… I stand corrected. I misinterpreted your post as a suggestion that the reasons for wanting to change sexual orientation were in themselves reasons for some form of psychotherapy qhwn they might be entirely rational. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-religious-gay-conversion/519018.md?page=1)