# Non-Spoiler Background Thread for Game of Thrones **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 20, 2011, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-spoiler-background-thread-for-game-of-thrones/582608 "2011-05-20T18:40:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-spoiler-background-thread-for-game-of-thrones/582608/41 "2011-05-23T16:07:15Z")
I think it was mainly because he led the rebellion, the rest was just excuses to satisfy the legitimacy lawyers. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Credible](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a8b319/32.png) [@Justin\_Credible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Credible)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-spoiler-background-thread-for-game-of-thrones/582608/42 "2011-05-23T17:33:41Z")
> [@meldiocre](#): > > book 1 to book 4 is literally ‘a couple years.’ there’s a fast-forward coming up soon but i dont wanna say more than that due to the non-spoiling nature of the thread. I thought that idea was scrapped. Is it back on the table? ---
**Author:** ![meldiocre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5f9b8f/32.png) [@meldiocre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/meldiocre)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-spoiler-background-thread-for-game-of-thrones/582608/43 "2011-05-23T18:25:10Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > I think it was mainly because he led the rebellion, the rest was just excuses to satisfy the legitimacy lawyers. baratheon is descended from a younger branch of targaryen, like someone already basically said. what happened was aegon V had 2 kids, rhaelle and jaehaerys (who was one of the most famous/nicest guy/cool dude kings evaR). jae went on to sire aerys (thanks a lot) and rhaelle married into baratheon, and her baby was no other thaaaan.. robert/stannis/renly’s dad, steffon. this would make robert a targaryen cousin (this, of course, is contingent upon my very limited understanding of family trees, but i think he’s a cousin.. maybe?) it’s interesting that he hates targs so much that he can conveniently forget he is one on his grandmother’s side. also regarding the timewarp, i dont really read GRRM’s blog. never been a big blog reader, even on such a compelling subject. i can only answer for sure questions about what’s in the ASOIAF and prequels etc canon. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-spoiler-background-thread-for-game-of-thrones/582608/44 "2011-05-23T18:31:58Z")
I wasn’t saying that Robert didn’t have a minor Targaryen connection, i was saying the main reason he was king was because he won the war. Everything else was just a retroactive justification, if it had been Ned or Jon Arryn or even Tywin Lannister who ended up as king an excuse would have been found to validate their legitimacy also. ---
**Author:** ![meldiocre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5f9b8f/32.png) [@meldiocre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/meldiocre)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-spoiler-background-thread-for-game-of-thrones/582608/45 "2011-05-23T18:37:01Z")
im not saying youre wrong. but in the books, robert asks ned something like, “why didnt we just make you king? you wouldve been so much better at it” and ned replies “you had the better claim, your grace.” by the right of conquest, any one of the conquerors could have been crowned. it could have been ned, robert, even tywin, jon arryn, etc, but robert was next in line once all the direct targ heirs had been wiped out. so it was both. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-spoiler-background-thread-for-game-of-thrones/582608/46 "2011-05-23T18:41:32Z")
> [@meldiocre](#): > > im not saying youre wrong. but in the books, robert asks ned something like, “why didnt we just make you king? you wouldve been so much better at it” and ned replies “you had the better claim, your grace.” > > by the right of conquest, any one of the conquerors could have been crowned. it could have been ned, robert, even tywin, jon arryn, etc, but robert was next in line once all the direct targ heirs had been wiped out. so it was both. I think you’re also giving him too little credit. Robert was able to get the support from the various families. Arryn, Stark, and Lannister may very well have not been able to manage it. Ike’s strength wasn’t his being a general, it was being able to work a coalition and keep it together. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![meldiocre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5f9b8f/32.png) [@meldiocre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/meldiocre)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-spoiler-background-thread-for-game-of-thrones/582608/47 "2011-05-23T18:43:33Z")
“ive never felt so alive as when i was winning this crown, and so dead now that ive won it” - robert baratheon i see what you guys are saying, but he didnt actually want to be king. they just kind of rallied behind him because he was the leader AND the next in line hereditary-wise. it was the only logical choice. but it was also twofold+. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-spoiler-background-thread-for-game-of-thrones/582608/48 "2011-05-23T18:46:04Z")
But if he had died during the war it would have been easy enough to justify a kingship for any of the other players. ---
**Author:** ![meldiocre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5f9b8f/32.png) [@meldiocre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/meldiocre)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-spoiler-background-thread-for-game-of-thrones/582608/49 "2011-05-23T18:51:35Z")
would it? the lannisters and the starks hate each other. which one would have yielded the rule of the realm to the other? ned wouldnt want to rule, but if he thought the alternative was tywin ruling, and jaime to follow him, he wouldve stepped up. robert was the heir, and ned would’ve been honor-bound to support stannis as robert’s next successor (does that sound familiar? :D) i dunno, i think it wouldve been a civil war or at least more skirmishes. how do you cleanly decide between hated rivals who’s going to lead everyone once the obvious choice is dead? ---
**Author:** ![Folacin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folacin/32/3195_2.png) [@Folacin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folacin)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-spoiler-background-thread-for-game-of-thrones/582608/50 "2011-05-23T18:59:35Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > But if he had died during the war it would have been easy enough to justify a kingship for any of the other players. Justify, yes - but whoever was crowned needed to be able to hold support. The Targ blood made that much easier (Lannister can bow to a Targ, not so much a Stark (and vice versa)). Does anyone know if any of the other great houses have Targ blood lines? ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-spoiler-background-thread-for-game-of-thrones/582608/51 "2011-05-23T19:02:49Z")
> [@meldiocre](#): > > i dunno, i think it wouldve been a civil war or at least more skirmishes. how do you cleanly decide between hated rivals who’s going to lead everyone once the obvious choice is dead? It would go to Stannis and Renly. It would have to - after all, if Robert’s ancestry made him legit, it would apply to them as well. Once they’d said ‘good enough’ to the Baratheons they were stuck with him - until Robert produced an heir, anyway. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![kath94](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/67e7ee/32.png) [@kath94](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kath94)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-spoiler-background-thread-for-game-of-thrones/582608/52 "2011-05-23T19:02:54Z")
Okay, I’m a \*total \*novice here, and having trouble keeping up with all of the characters & their relation to one another. (I was never able to read The Lord of the Rings books for the same reason.) Who is the non-Dothraki, non-Targaryen guy who hangs out with Dany & Viserys? (Illyrio?) What is his relationship to them? What’s the point of his hanging around? Advisor? Translator? Uncle-type? Where is he from, does his “people” know that he’s hanging out with heirs to the deposed king and what do they think of him? Why was everyone so shocked that someone was killed in a joust? Are they normally “just for show?” ---
**Author:** ![meldiocre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5f9b8f/32.png) [@meldiocre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/meldiocre)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-spoiler-background-thread-for-game-of-thrones/582608/53 "2011-05-23T19:04:31Z")
the targs intermarried a lot to keep the bloodlines pure. the only houses they ever married into that i know of are baratheon and martell. > [@kath94](#): > > Okay, I’m a \*total \* > Who is the non-Dothraki, non-Targaryen guy who hangs out with Dany & Viserys? (Illyrio?) What is his relationship to them? What’s the point of his hanging around? Advisor? Translator? Uncle-type? Where is he from, does his “people” know that he’s hanging out with heirs to the deposed king and what do they think of him? > > Why was everyone so shocked that someone was killed in a joust? Are they normally “just for show?” he’s jorah mormont. he fled to the free city of pentos after he was caught by lord stark selling slaves in the north (he explained this to daenerys a couple episodes ago i think). he’s from bear island, specifically, which falls under the stark rule and whatnot. illyrio introduced him to khal drogo when he sold him daenerys and he swore his sword to viserys as his king. hes just a knight, so whatever that entails, thats what he does. bodyguard, translator, servant, whatever. as for the joust, yeah, youre not really supposed to die as i understand it. heh. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-spoiler-background-thread-for-game-of-thrones/582608/54 "2011-05-23T19:08:32Z")
> [@kath94](#): > > Okay, I’m a \*total \*novice here, and having trouble keeping up with all of the characters & their relation to one another. (I was never able to read The Lord of the Rings books for the same reason.) > > Who is the non-Dothraki, non-Targaryen guy who hangs out with Dany & Viserys? (Illyrio?) What is his relationship to them? What’s the point of his hanging around? Advisor? Translator? Uncle-type? Where is he from, does his “people” know that he’s hanging out with heirs to the deposed king and what do they think of him? > > Why was everyone so shocked that someone was killed in a joust? Are they normally “just for show?” I believe you mean Jorah Mormont. He is originally a banner man for Ned Stark who got caught selling prisoners as slaves, something that is illegal in the seven kingdoms, and instead of submitting for punishment he fled to another continent. He follows along with Dany and Viserys with the excuse of being a sworn knight in the service of the rightful king (he offered his service to Viserys during Danys wedding). He is acting as a spy for Varys and feeding him all information about Dany he has. **Moderated content:** I originally removed the last sentence from this post, but upon rewatching the scene it’s - as said below - completely revealed in the Open Council when Ned loses his Handship. Sorry for the inconvenience. - Gukumatz ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-spoiler-background-thread-for-game-of-thrones/582608/55 "2011-05-23T19:09:21Z")
> [@kath94](#): > > Okay, I’m a \*total \*novice here, and having trouble keeping up with all of the characters & their relation to one another. (I was never able to read The Lord of the Rings books for the same reason.) > > Who is the non-Dothraki, non-Targaryen guy who hangs out with Dany & Viserys? (Illyrio?) What is his relationship to them? What’s the point of his hanging around? Advisor? Translator? Uncle-type? Where is he from, does his “people” know that he’s hanging out with heirs to the deposed king and what do they think of him? > > Why was everyone so shocked that someone was killed in a joust? Are they normally “just for show?” The guy who is hanging around is Ser Jorah Mormont, who basically fled from the Seven Kingdoms because he sold some slaves to try to keep up his finances because he had an expensive wife. He had to flee because Ned Stark was going to cut his head off for selling slaves, which is illegal. His father is the head of the Night’s Watch. The death at the joust is the kind of thing that happens, but a combination of stuff like metal armor and wooden lances makes it pretty unlikely. People die from jousts because they fall off and break a neck or a back or something, but because a lance just happens to slide up a shield and into a throat. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![meldiocre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5f9b8f/32.png) [@meldiocre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/meldiocre)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-spoiler-background-thread-for-game-of-thrones/582608/56 "2011-05-23T19:10:49Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > I believe you mean Jorah Mormont. He is originally a banner man for Ned Stark who got caught selling prisoners as slaves, something that is illegal in the seven kingdoms, and instead of submitting for punishment he fled to another continent. He follows along with Dany and Viserys with the excuse of being a sworn knight in the service of the rightful king (he offered his service to Viserys during Danys wedding). He is SPOILERSPOILERSPOILER you should really delete that last part ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-spoiler-background-thread-for-game-of-thrones/582608/57 "2011-05-23T19:13:34Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > Spoiler deleted because quoting a spoiler is stupid While they haven’t been as subtle as they should have, that one probably violates the “non spoiler” bit. Anyway, Illyrio is the guy who Dany and Viserys were living with at the beginning of the series. He’s also the “foreigner” that Arya spotted talking to Varys (the spymaster) in the room with the dragon skulls. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![meldiocre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5f9b8f/32.png) [@meldiocre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/meldiocre)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-spoiler-background-thread-for-game-of-thrones/582608/58 "2011-05-23T19:15:05Z")
yea, the thread is kinda boned now. 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-spoiler-background-thread-for-game-of-thrones/582608/59 "2011-05-23T19:17:30Z")
> [@meldiocre](#): > > yea, the thread is kinda boned now. 😕 Reported. We’ll see what happens. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![meldiocre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5f9b8f/32.png) [@meldiocre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/meldiocre)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-spoiler-background-thread-for-game-of-thrones/582608/60 "2011-05-23T19:23:33Z")
wait we’re dumb, they said that last episode. LOL [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-spoiler-background-thread-for-game-of-thrones/582608.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-spoiler-background-thread-for-game-of-thrones/582608.md?page=4)