# Non-Spoiler Background Thread for Game of Thrones **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 20, 2011, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-spoiler-background-thread-for-game-of-thrones/582608 "2011-05-20T18:40:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Lantern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d26b3c/32.png) [@Lantern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lantern)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-spoiler-background-thread-for-game-of-thrones/582608/61 "2011-05-23T19:31:58Z")
Yeah it was made perfectly clear in the show that Mormont was a spy, in the scene where Ned resigns as Hand. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-spoiler-background-thread-for-game-of-thrones/582608/62 "2011-05-23T19:34:00Z")
Uh they outright said it on the show, jesus people. They even discussed his believability. ---
**Author:** ![meldiocre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5f9b8f/32.png) [@meldiocre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/meldiocre)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-spoiler-background-thread-for-game-of-thrones/582608/63 "2011-05-23T19:36:49Z")
relax, all i said was ‘you should probably delete it.’ they PROBABLY shouldnt be depicting lysa as all evil and catelyn as all good and sansa as being rude to her septa, but theyre doing it anyway. probability is meaningless!!1 anyway yeah you were right, i forgot they straight up said it already. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-spoiler-background-thread-for-game-of-thrones/582608/64 "2011-05-23T19:50:59Z")
> [@meldiocre](#): > > relax, all i said was ‘you should probably delete it.’ they PROBABLY shouldnt be depicting lysa as all evil and catelyn as all good and sansa as being rude to her septa, but theyre doing it anyway. probability is meaningless!!1 > > anyway yeah you were right, i forgot they straight up said it already. Oops. Duhhhhhhh. I think I was conflating that with something that happens later on. Suspect I’m not the only one. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![TBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c89c15/32.png) [@TBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TBG)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-spoiler-background-thread-for-game-of-thrones/582608/65 "2011-05-23T23:55:26Z")
> [@meldiocre](#): > > “ive never felt so alive as when i was winning this crown, and so dead now that ive won it” - robert baratheon > > i see what you guys are saying, but he didnt actually want to be king. they just kind of rallied behind him because he was the leader AND the next in line hereditary-wise. it was the only logical choice. but it was also twofold+. Stannis would be ahead of him hereditary-wise, wouldn’t he? ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2011, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-spoiler-background-thread-for-game-of-thrones/582608/66 "2011-05-24T00:02:03Z")
> [@TBG](#): > > Stannis would be ahead of him hereditary-wise, wouldn’t he? Stannis is the middle child. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2011, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-spoiler-background-thread-for-game-of-thrones/582608/67 "2011-05-24T00:15:06Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > Stannis is the middle child. He just _seems_ old compared to Robert and Renly because he’s completely humorless, self-righteous and priggish. ETA: I completely missed Stannis’s actual place in the family because of those qualities. I’ve spent the last two or three years since I read the books last thinking he was much older than Robert… ---
**Author:** ![Gukumatz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/74df32/32.png) [@Gukumatz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gukumatz)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2011, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-spoiler-background-thread-for-game-of-thrones/582608/68 "2011-05-24T04:59:10Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > He just _seems_ old compared to Robert and Renly because he’s completely humorless, self-righteous and priggish. > > ETA: I completely missed Stannis’s actual place in the family because of those qualities. I’ve spent the last two or three years since I read the books last thinking he was much older than Robert… I believe he’s referred to as being mid-thirties. ---
**Author:** ![gonzoron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a6a055/32.png) [@gonzoron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzoron)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2011, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-spoiler-background-thread-for-game-of-thrones/582608/69 "2011-05-24T17:15:54Z")
Well, I’ll be… I too thought Stannis to be older than Robert, and always wondered how Robert got away with being King instead of Stannis in the first place… But the ASOIAF wiki confirms that Robert was 2 years older. ---
**Author:** ![TBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c89c15/32.png) [@TBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TBG)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2011, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-spoiler-background-thread-for-game-of-thrones/582608/70 "2011-05-24T23:52:25Z")
Seriously? Well, I’m just glad I’m not the only one who thought that Stannis was older. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2011, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-spoiler-background-thread-for-game-of-thrones/582608/71 "2011-05-25T13:26:56Z")
> [@TBG](#): > > Seriously? Well, I’m just glad I’m not the only one who thought that Stannis was older. I’m pretty sure during some ASOIAF thread a couple years back I actually ended up asking that specific question - Why did Robert get it instead of Stannis? It never occurred to me, not even once, that Stannis was the younger brother. God that guy is a dick. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2011, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-spoiler-background-thread-for-game-of-thrones/582608/72 "2011-05-25T16:34:27Z")
I never even thought about whether Robert or Stannis was older - didn’t seem significant to me. Renly, yeah, much younger, but the fact he’s not been to war is significant, which makes that obvious. His brothers, not so much. Stannis’s personality vs Roberts didn’t make him feel older to me, either…hell, their opposite natures would have made them liable to be twins twins in a more fantastic story. (It’s weird to describe a world where dragons, giants, the undead, and whatever the hell the Others are exist, as ‘less fantastic’, but, I think y’all get what I mean.) But for an amusing age misapprehension - since I started watching the series before reading the book (picked the book up between episodes 3 and 4)…I had initially thought _Viserys and Dany_ were twins…I still can’t quite wrap my head around the idea that Viserys is several years older. (Consequence of ageing half the characters up - the Targaryen siblings are (in the TV series) now at a point that a couple years doesn’t make any real difference, and they just look amazingly alike…but that may be a consequence of sharing the striking hair colour.) ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2011, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-spoiler-background-thread-for-game-of-thrones/582608/73 "2011-05-25T19:14:49Z")
I know Westeros is the size of a continent so being ruler of the 7 kingdoms is a full time job, but do Westeros and the contintinent to the East have much interaction? Have they ever been enemies or allies for example? Or intermarried royalty with them? And are most of the easterners like the Dothraki (nomadic non urbanites) or are there cities and high civilization beyond the free cities on the coast? ---
**Author:** ![artemis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/91b2a8/32.png) [@artemis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/artemis)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2011, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-spoiler-background-thread-for-game-of-thrones/582608/74 "2011-05-25T19:39:28Z")
We’re not told much about the eastern continent. There is some trade between some parts of the eastern continent (mostly the Free Cities) and Westeros, and there are apparently some important cities/civilizations further east beyond the Dothraki and the Free Cities, but we don’t know too much about them at this point in the books. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2011, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-spoiler-background-thread-for-game-of-thrones/582608/75 "2011-05-25T19:41:54Z")
And the Targaryens originally came from the eastern continent…Valyria was over there before it was destroyed. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_Torque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Max\_Torque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_Torque)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2011, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-spoiler-background-thread-for-game-of-thrones/582608/76 "2011-05-25T19:47:02Z")
[QUOTE=Tengu] Yes, it’s a common thing of all the noble houses, though not all of the symbols are animals and plants. The Lannisters have a lion, the Baratheons (Robert’s family) have a stag, the Tullys (Cat’s family, by birth) have a fish (a trout, IIRC), and the Tyrells (Ser Loras’s house) a flower. Others include the chained giant of the Umbers, the sunburst of the Karstarks, the twin towers of the Freys, the Mormonts’ bear, the Greyjoys’ kraken, and the thoroughly disturbing sigil of House Bolton, the flayed man. Those are off the top of my head, and there are plenty more, such as a silver fist, spears, various birds and other beasts, etc. (All of these allied with either House Stark or House Tully, since it was Stark and Tully related chapters the lists I’m remembering came up in.) [/QUOTE] Don’t forget the Onion Knight! hehe > [@Sampiro](#): > > I know Westeros is the size of a continent so being ruler of the 7 kingdoms is a full time job, but do Westeros and the contintinent to the East have much interaction? Have they ever been enemies or allies for example? Or intermarried royalty with them? And are most of the easterners like the Dothraki (nomadic non urbanites) or are there cities and high civilization beyond the free cities on the coast? I’m only through the second book and partway into the third. There is a city of immense wealth on the eastern continent called Qarth, which some of our characters will be visiting later. As I recall, one local merchant’s house is described as so opulent and immense that Illyrio’s entire home could fit in one room. It appears that there is some trading done by sea. As for marriages and wars and such, can’t say for sure, I don’t recall reading of any yet. ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2011, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-spoiler-background-thread-for-game-of-thrones/582608/77 "2011-05-25T20:11:27Z")
> [@Max\_Torque](#): > > Don’t forget the Onion Knight! hehe Heh…I only just started A Clash of Kings this morning, so I didn’t know about him when I wrote that post. But he does have an interesting sigil, don’t he? ---
**Author:** ![Mtgman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5a626/32.png) [@Mtgman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mtgman)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2011, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-spoiler-background-thread-for-game-of-thrones/582608/78 "2011-05-25T20:46:03Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > I know Westeros is the size of a continent so being ruler of the 7 kingdoms is a full time job, but do Westeros and the contintinent to the East have much interaction? Have they ever been enemies or allies for example? Or intermarried royalty with them? And are most of the easterners like the Dothraki (nomadic non urbanites) or are there cities and high civilization beyond the free cities on the coast? There’s a decent amount of commerce between the two continents, but it seems the narrow sea is pretty treacherous for armies to try to pass. The only reason Aegon the Conquerer was able to take King’s Landing and hold it was because his dragons were pretty damn good at taking and holding a beachhead. As far as intermarried royalty, sort of. Prior to Aegon, they didn’t really have royalty(or rather they had too much of it) so any intermarriages weren’t particularly noteworthy. After Aegon, well the Targaryaens were notably incestuous and didn’t do much intermarrying with even the Westerosi let alone any others. There are many great cities in the East. The Dothraki are really fairly marginalized, albeit fierce, in the greater scheme of things. The East is far more vast than Westeros and one of the reasons Aegon moved on from there after being driven from his ancestral lands is because the East is much larger and more difficult to subjugate than Westeros, who were always at each other’s throats. Enjoy, Steven ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2011, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-spoiler-background-thread-for-game-of-thrones/582608/79 "2011-05-25T23:04:03Z")
Are the Targaryens and the Lannisters closely related? Reason I’m asking is the twincest. In the book (I’m reading the first one- only about 250 pages into it so far) the Targaryens have long practiced incestuous marriages and Daenerys always assumed she’d one day marry her brother; I was wondering if the Lannisters had Targaryen blood and thus the concept of incest wasn’t as objectionable. (Of course one of the family trees I saw said Robert had a Targaryen grandmother and he doesn’t seem to share it.) In the series, Queen Cersei has twice mentioned her oldest son who died in infancy, a ‘dark haired boy’, but where I’m at the books is past those scenes and she hasn’t mentioned it. Does she ever in the books? ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2011, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-spoiler-background-thread-for-game-of-thrones/582608/80 "2011-05-25T23:09:34Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > In the series, Queen Cersei has twice mentioned her oldest son who died in infancy, a ‘dark haired boy’, but where I’m at the books is past those scenes and she hasn’t mentioned it. Does she ever in the books? This isn’t a spoiler because those eps are past, so… In the books, Cersei aborted the baby she conceived with Robert. She took “moon-tea”, which is an abortifacient. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-spoiler-background-thread-for-game-of-thrones/582608.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-spoiler-background-thread-for-game-of-thrones/582608.md?page=5)