# Non-Spoiler Background Thread for Game of Thrones **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 20, 2011, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-spoiler-background-thread-for-game-of-thrones/582608 "2011-05-20T18:40:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2011, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-spoiler-background-thread-for-game-of-thrones/582608/81 "2011-05-25T23:24:49Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > Are the Targaryens and the Lannisters closely related? Reason I’m asking is the twincest. In the book (I’m reading the first one- only about 250 pages into it so far) the Targaryens have long practiced incestuous marriages and Daenerys always assumed she’d one day marry her brother; I was wondering if the Lannisters had Targaryen blood and thus the concept of incest wasn’t as objectionable. (Of course one of the family trees I saw said Robert had a Targaryen grandmother and he doesn’t seem to share it.) > > In the series, Queen Cersei has twice mentioned her oldest son who died in infancy, a ‘dark haired boy’, but where I’m at the books is past those scenes and she hasn’t mentioned it. Does she ever in the books? They’re not related at all. Regarding Aegon conquering King’s Landing: did it exist then? It’s named after him. I thought that it was just a safe place to land and it was close to Dragonstone. Although it’s right on a river, so I guess it’d be weird for there to not be a city there. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 12:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-spoiler-background-thread-for-game-of-thrones/582608/82 "2011-05-26T12:31:05Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > They’re not related at all. > > Regarding Aegon conquering King’s Landing: did it exist then? It’s named after him. I thought that it was just a safe place to land and it was close to Dragonstone. Although it’s right on a river, so I guess it’d be weird for there to not be a city there. We don’t know, but I don’t think it matters too much. It was probably a three house village because it was a good location. Once it was conquered and became the capital it was officially renamed from Shitsville to King’s Landing. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-spoiler-background-thread-for-game-of-thrones/582608/83 "2011-05-26T13:10:54Z")
> [@Merijeek](#): > > Once it was conquered and became the capital it was officially renamed from Shitsville to King’s Landing. > > -Joe And for a brief time during Joffrey’s brief reign, was renamed to Little Shitsville.\* \*[sub]Not intended to be a factual statement.[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![elmwood](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmwood/32/3060_2.png) [@elmwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elmwood)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-spoiler-background-thread-for-game-of-thrones/582608/84 "2011-05-26T17:07:32Z")
Just started watching it, because a geeky friend of mine made such a huge deal about it, it was nearly difficult to ignore her. You know, I’m getting into it! Yeah, there’s the usual medieval fantasy cliches, but damnit, the world is rich, and the characters complicated and multi-dimensional. It’s truly epic. I think the major sectors of the Westeros economy are: 1. Sword and armor manufacturing 2. Candle manufacturing 3. Prostitution 4. Dead body disposal and cleanup. Also, for a society that can build a 700 foot wall, 300 mile long wall, the roads are pretty shitty. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2011, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-spoiler-background-thread-for-game-of-thrones/582608/85 "2011-05-27T13:33:01Z")
> [@elmwood](#): > > Just started watching it, because a geeky friend of mine made such a huge deal about it, it was nearly difficult to ignore her. You know, I’m getting into it! Yeah, there’s the usual medieval fantasy cliches, but damnit, the world is rich, and the characters complicated and multi-dimensional. It’s truly epic. > > I think the major sectors of the Westeros economy are: > > 1. Sword and armor manufacturing > 2. Candle manufacturing > 3. Prostitution > 4. Dead body disposal and cleanup. > > Also, for a society that can build a 700 foot wall, 300 mile long wall, the roads are pretty shitty. Don’t forget booze production. Anyway, you have to remember that the roads to the Eeyrie and Winterfel are kind of the equivalent to the roads to Cornhole, Arkansas and Scooba, Mississippi. So, yeah, shit. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2011, 10:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-spoiler-background-thread-for-game-of-thrones/582608/86 "2011-06-20T10:29:41Z")
For Tarwater: Dany’s not impervious to fire under normal circumstances. The pyre with Drogo and dragons was a one time deal. It was magic, she’s not immune. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2011, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-spoiler-background-thread-for-game-of-thrones/582608/87 "2011-06-21T04:51:41Z")
I’m curious about the deal with Lord Frey and the Twins. In the viewers guide it explains that the Frey family spent generations building the fort at the river crossing and became very rich as a result. However, when you look at the included map of Westeros it doesn’t seem like the Twins are at a particularly useful point on the river. They seem to be trivially far away from the end of the river so simply going around the northern source would be doable and up that direction it’s probably fairly easy to ford as it gets closer to the source. More critically, there doesn’t appear to be a major road or a trade route crossing this comparatively minor river that would generate huge revenues and power. The Twins are located near a narrowing of the continent and there’s nothing located on either side of the river of note. WTF? If the Twins were located at one of the crossings of the major highways just south of the Trident near the Inn at the Crossroads it would make total sense, connecting either the West with the Vale or conntecting the North with Kings Landing and the Stormlands. Does Martin explain why the Twin’s location is so critical? ---
**Author:** ![ripopgome](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a698b9/32.png) [@ripopgome](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ripopgome)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2011, 10:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-spoiler-background-thread-for-game-of-thrones/582608/88 "2011-06-21T10:28:44Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > For Tarwater: Dany’s not impervious to fire under normal circumstances. The pyre with Drogo and dragons was a one time deal. It was magic, she’s not immune. A couple of eps prior she was putting one of the dragon eggs in the fire and one of her maids (?) came in and grabbed the egg out of the fire; the maid was burned but Dany was fine. I have only watched the show but they’re implying it’s more than a one-time deal… ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2011, 11:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-spoiler-background-thread-for-game-of-thrones/582608/89 "2011-06-21T11:01:44Z")
> [@ripopgome](#): > > A couple of eps prior she was putting one of the dragon eggs in the fire and one of her maids (?) came in and grabbed the egg out of the fire; the maid was burned but Dany was fine. I have only watched the show but they’re implying it’s more than a one-time deal… Well, the books are not the show. Martin says that Targaryens are not immune ([Wayback Machine](http://web.archive.org/web/20001005212114/eventhorizon.com/sfzine/chats/transcripts/031899.html)). ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2011, 11:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-spoiler-background-thread-for-game-of-thrones/582608/90 "2011-06-21T11:15:05Z")
> [@Mtgman](#): > > There’s a decent amount of commerce between the two continents, but it seems the narrow sea is pretty treacherous for armies to try to pass. The only reason Aegon the Conquerer was able to take King’s Landing and hold it was because his dragons were pretty damn good at taking and holding a beachhead. As far as intermarried royalty, sort of. Prior to Aegon, they didn’t really have royalty(or rather they had too much of it) so any intermarriages weren’t particularly noteworthy. After Aegon, well the Targaryaens were notably incestuous and didn’t do much intermarrying with even the Westerosi let alone any others. There are many great cities in the East. The Dothraki are really fairly marginalized, albeit fierce, in the greater scheme of things. The East is far more vast than Westeros and one of the reasons Aegon moved on from there after being driven from his ancestral lands is because the East is much larger and more difficult to subjugate than Westeros, who were always at each other’s throats. > > Enjoy, > Steven You also have to bear in mind that up until a few centuries ago, a large portion of the eastern continent was ruled by the Empire of Valyria - which is why the language spoken in the Free Cities (Pentos, Braavos et al) is a debased form of Valyrian (much as French, Italian and Spanish are a debased form of Latin). The Valyrian dominion reached from far to the east and south all the way to the Island of Dragonstone, off the shores of Westeros; why they never expanded further westward until the Targaryans - who invaded an indeterminate time after the empire’s fall - has not been made clear. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2011, 11:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-spoiler-background-thread-for-game-of-thrones/582608/91 "2011-06-21T11:22:14Z")
[Here](http://gamesofthrones.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/World_Map.jpg)is a reader-made map of the known world. It’s non-canonical, but it gives you a sense of how the place is laid out. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2011, 11:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-spoiler-background-thread-for-game-of-thrones/582608/92 "2011-06-21T11:44:02Z")
Oh, I didn’t read through that whole interview I linked to. I suppose there might be spoilers. I’ll check when I get a chance. ---
**Author:** ![Algorithm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/algorithm/32/12204_2.png) [@Algorithm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algorithm)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2011, 12:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-spoiler-background-thread-for-game-of-thrones/582608/93 "2011-06-21T12:02:08Z")
> [@Omniscient](#): > > If the Twins were located at one of the crossings of the major highways just south of the Trident near the Inn at the Crossroads it would make total sense, connecting either the West with the Vale or conntecting the North with Kings Landing and the Stormlands. Does Martin explain why the Twin’s location is so critical? Towards the north end of the green fork, on the west side, is a huge swamp. IIRC, it’s thought of as difficult if not impassible for large armies. I thought, in Robb’s case in GoT, being on the other side of the river gave them a better strategic position, as well as giving them a clearer shot towards Riverrun (the Tully’s home) without having to take the main road. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2011, 12:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-spoiler-background-thread-for-game-of-thrones/582608/94 "2011-06-21T12:06:22Z")
Also, crossing there hides them from Tywin’s scouts, allowing them to advance rapidly without being detected. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2011, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-spoiler-background-thread-for-game-of-thrones/582608/95 "2011-06-24T17:26:09Z")
> [@Algorithm](#): > > Towards the north end of the green fork, on the west side, is a huge swamp. IIRC, it’s thought of as difficult if not impassible for large armies. I thought, in Robb’s case in GoT, being on the other side of the river gave them a better strategic position, as well as giving them a clearer shot towards Riverrun (the Tully’s home) without having to take the main road. > [@Alessan](#): > > Also, crossing there hides them from Tywin’s scouts, allowing them to advance rapidly without being detected. Both true and understandable, but that doesn’t explain why the Frey’s built and subsequently got rich off the Twins. Unless armies are attacking Riverrun on a daily basis I’m not seeing the business case for building that thing. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2011, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-spoiler-background-thread-for-game-of-thrones/582608/96 "2011-06-24T18:15:32Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > Well, the books are not the show. Martin says that Targaryens are not immune ([Wayback Machine](http://web.archive.org/web/20001005212114/eventhorizon.com/sfzine/chats/transcripts/031899.html)). Linky no worky. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2011, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-spoiler-background-thread-for-game-of-thrones/582608/97 "2011-06-24T18:18:50Z")
> [@Omniscient](#): > > Both true and understandable, but that doesn’t explain why the Frey’s built and subsequently got rich off the Twins. Unless armies are attacking Riverrun on a daily basis I’m not seeing the business case for building that thing. I think it’s a regular trade route & most travelers are willing to pay toll to the Freys. Not huge sums, but they add up. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2011, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-spoiler-background-thread-for-game-of-thrones/582608/98 "2011-06-24T18:20:45Z")
> [@Omniscient](#): > > Both true and understandable, but that doesn’t explain why the Frey’s built and subsequently got rich off the Twins. Unless armies are attacking Riverrun on a daily basis I’m not seeing the business case for building that thing. It’s not just armies, traders too. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2011, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-spoiler-background-thread-for-game-of-thrones/582608/99 "2011-06-25T01:02:07Z")
> [@Bridget\_Burke](#): > > I think it’s a regular trade route & most travelers are willing to pay toll to the Freys. Not huge sums, but they add up. > [@DigitalC](#): > > It’s not just armies, traders too. Well, yeah, but look at the map. Logically it’s not any where near where you’d expect a trade route to be. Does Martin ever say what the heck the bridge connects? What two cities or centers of commerce? ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2011, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-spoiler-background-thread-for-game-of-thrones/582608/100 "2011-06-25T01:21:09Z")
It connects the north and south, the trade routes go through there because that is where the bridge is. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-spoiler-background-thread-for-game-of-thrones/582608.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-spoiler-background-thread-for-game-of-thrones/582608.md?page=6)