# Non-supernatural explanation for a religious vision while driving? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 13, 2002, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-supernatural-explanation-for-a-religious-vision-while-driving/132028 "2002-10-13T02:07:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![JohnClay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c37758/32.png) [@JohnClay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnClay)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2002, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-supernatural-explanation-for-a-religious-vision-while-driving/132028/1 "2002-10-13T02:07:09Z")
I’m not sure if this guy has had other visions or not… He says that 22 years ago he accepted Jesus as his saviour and the next day he was driving on a freeway to work. His eyes were open at the time and then he felt himself being lifted into Heaven standing before God and he saw the kingdom of Heaven, etc. God spoke and said, “You thought you could find the truth with your logic, let me show you my logic!”. Then he felt that he understood all things even why Jesus had to come to Earth. Then God said, “All of this is yours if you accept my Son”. He said he wanted it all and suddenly he was back in his car on the freeway with only the memory of what had happened. I was thinking maybe it could be a John Nash-style (from A Beautiful Mind) hallucination but in a bath of pleasure-giving chemicals. You see I don’t know much about psychiatry… so anyway, does anyone have any ideas about what could have happened - assuming that nothing supernatural was involved - ? ---
**Author:** ![Geek\_Mecha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ecae2f/32.png) [@Geek\_Mecha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Geek_Mecha)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2002, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-supernatural-explanation-for-a-religious-vision-while-driving/132028/2 "2002-10-13T02:14:44Z")
I’d say he crafted an extraordinary story to get you thinking about God and his brand of religion. Psychiatry, the supernatural, and the fact he was driving at the time may have nothing to do with it at all. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2002, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-supernatural-explanation-for-a-religious-vision-while-driving/132028/3 "2002-10-13T02:22:16Z")
My first thought was a John Nash type thing as well. He’s freakin’ nuts! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2002, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-supernatural-explanation-for-a-religious-vision-while-driving/132028/4 "2002-10-13T03:11:21Z")
Must have had a brain fart. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2002, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-supernatural-explanation-for-a-religious-vision-while-driving/132028/5 "2002-10-13T03:13:22Z")
People hallucinate all the time for different reasons. ---
**Author:** ![DRRJP](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@DRRJP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DRRJP)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2002, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-supernatural-explanation-for-a-religious-vision-while-driving/132028/6 "2002-10-13T03:19:40Z")
When I was in the shower a while ago (a few weeks; wasn’t my last shower 🙂 ) I turned the cold water on and when it hit my head, my eyes were closed. I swear I saw Jesus when that water hit my head. However, when I turned the cold water off he vanished, so 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Ms2001](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ms2001/32/18463_2.png) [@Ms2001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ms2001)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2002, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-supernatural-explanation-for-a-religious-vision-while-driving/132028/7 "2002-10-13T03:20:29Z")
Doesn’t God realize that there are better times to interrupt people with visions? _Maybe_ He should have waited until the guy was safely parked at work, instead of taking him up to Heaven while he’s busy maneuvering 2000 lbs of steel at 60 MPH? On the other hand, your friend’s story does explain a lot of the driving habits I’ve seen around here. ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2002, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-supernatural-explanation-for-a-religious-vision-while-driving/132028/8 "2002-10-13T03:30:03Z")
Seriously, though, it might have been an epileptic seizure, it could have been exposure to a strong magnetic field, it could be bullshit, it could be the product of an over-active imagination, highway hypnosis, or half-a-dozen other things that caused this. There’s not really any point in speculating because unless he has one while stuck in a MRI or something, we’ll have no way of knowing what’s going on inside of his noggin. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2002, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-supernatural-explanation-for-a-religious-vision-while-driving/132028/9 "2002-10-13T04:08:03Z")
You do realize, don’t you, that the real John Nash didn’t have any visual hallucinations? He had some auditory hallucinations, but his schizophrenia mostly consisted of his creation of conspiracy theories. In other words, his insanity wasn’t so much in what he imagined as in how he explained the things he experienced. Most of _A Beautiful Mind_ was an utter lie. ---
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2002, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-supernatural-explanation-for-a-religious-vision-while-driving/132028/10 "2002-10-13T04:17:24Z")
Any comment on how accurate the book was? ---
**Author:** ![Pythagoras](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/48db29/32.png) [@Pythagoras](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pythagoras)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2002, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-supernatural-explanation-for-a-religious-vision-while-driving/132028/11 "2002-10-13T04:22:02Z")
I dont believe it and here’s why - Faith should be solely based on a personal truth independent of emprical knowledge. Faith is choosing to believe in something sometimes against the preponderance of evidence. Free will is key, I cant see why God would go out of the way to try and conjole somebody to being a devout christian by wining and dining him in the kingdom of heaven. If that is the case, God is whoring himself out for believers and ya know what, I dont need that kind of God. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2002, 6:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-supernatural-explanation-for-a-religious-vision-while-driving/132028/12 "2002-10-13T06:00:40Z")
Yllaria writes: \> Any comment on how accurate the book was? Which book? The book _A Beautiful Mind_? Yes, it was very accurate. We’ve discussed this several times. Do a search in the archives for _A Beautiful Mind_ and John Nash. ---
**Author:** ![Cardinal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cardinal/32/4000_2.png) [@Cardinal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cardinal)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2002, 7:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-supernatural-explanation-for-a-religious-vision-while-driving/132028/13 "2002-10-13T07:50:48Z")
> [@](#): > > Faith should be solely based on a personal truth independent of emprical knowledge. I couldn’t disagree more. I am a Christian not only because of my personal experiences, but because of empirical evidences and historical arguments. If I can be shown that there is unqualified emperical evidence against the precepts of Christianity, I’m out of here. I know MANY people who feel effectively the same way. Any way, why would you go and say that faith “should” fly in the face of evidence? I honestly don’t get why that would be a point to make or believe. ---
**Author:** ![Urban\_Ranger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/e9c0ed/32.png) [@Urban\_Ranger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urban_Ranger)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2002, 8:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-supernatural-explanation-for-a-religious-vision-while-driving/132028/14 "2002-10-13T08:02:05Z")
Maybe this thread is heading towards GD. Anyway, you spoke of empirical evidence and historical arguments. I am sure a lot of us love to see that. For the last 2000 years or so, theologicians from Augustine to Thomas Aquinas to Richard Swinburne have been trying to establish a case for Christianity. They have failed so far. I am not saying you can’t do it, but the chances of succeeding is getting smaller and smaller. ---
**Author:** ![JohnClay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c37758/32.png) [@JohnClay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnClay)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2002, 11:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-supernatural-explanation-for-a-religious-vision-while-driving/132028/15 "2002-10-13T11:22:13Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Tuckerfan \* > **…it might have been an epileptic seizure, it could have been exposure to a strong magnetic field, it could be bullshit, it could be the product of an over-active imagination, highway hypnosis, or half-a-dozen other things that caused this.** Could you explain those things in more details please? And he seems to genuinely believe that this happened to him… can those things explain the feelings of understanding and awe and how it could happen while his eyes were open and seem real? I’m looking for in-depth alternative explanations to the supernatural explanation… > [@](#): > > **There’s not really any point in speculating because unless he has one while stuck in a MRI or something, we’ll have no way of knowing what’s going on inside of his noggin.** I’m not very worried about what actually happened but what the possibilities are about what _could_ have happened. One possibility, assuming God exists, would be that God gave him a vision. That is pretty self-explanatory. I’m not sure how things you mentioned like an epileptic seizure could result in the experience he described. ---
**Author:** ![C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b2d939/32.png) [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C_K_Dexter_Haven)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2002, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-supernatural-explanation-for-a-religious-vision-while-driving/132028/16 "2002-10-13T12:27:27Z")
“People who talk to God are saints. People to whom God speaks are lunatics.” ---
**Author:** ![Urban\_Ranger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/e9c0ed/32.png) [@Urban\_Ranger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urban_Ranger)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2002, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-supernatural-explanation-for-a-religious-vision-while-driving/132028/17 "2002-10-13T15:08:33Z")
Unfortunately, there are people who think they are hearing God. That’s pretty scary. One of these days, some might think God tell him to fire randomly into a mall with an assault rifle. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2002, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-supernatural-explanation-for-a-religious-vision-while-driving/132028/18 "2002-10-13T19:47:13Z")
Do we have any other witnesses that his eyes were open? Because if he’s having visions, of whatever sort (inspired or hallucinated), then he might as well have the vision of his eyes being open, too. I mean, think about it: When was the last time you had a dream about your eyes being closed? ---
**Author:** ![Savaka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/858c86/32.png) [@Savaka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Savaka)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2002, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-supernatural-explanation-for-a-religious-vision-while-driving/132028/19 "2002-10-13T20:28:38Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by JohnClay \* > \*\*I’m not sure how things you mentioned like an epileptic seizure could result in the experience he described. \*\* You’re probably thinking of generalized tonic-clonic seizures, which may not have associated hallucinations. But temporal lobe epilepsy commonly produces various kind of hallucinations, including those with religious or paranormal overtones. [This site](http://www.upcmd.com/dot/diseases/01098/rule-out.html#6) gives some of the symptomatology of temporal lobe epilepsy: > [@](#): > > Temporal Lobe Epilepsy [ICD9:345.5]Definition: Disorder is characterized by recurrent seizures marked by impairment of cognition. During the seizure the individual may experience a wide variety of psychic phenomena including formed hallucinations, illusions, deja vu, intense emotional feelings, confusion, and spatial disorientation. Focal motor activity, sensory alterations and automatism may also occur. Complex partial seizures often originate in one or both temporal lobes. > > Symptoms and signs which mimic schizophrenia > Hallucinations > Stereotyped unresponsive behavior [This site](http://dubinserver.colorado.edu/prj/cba2/p02.html) is even more explicit about the attendant paranormal feelings: > [@](#): > > Temporal lobe epilepsy (TLE), or complex partial seizure disorder, involves seizures starting in the medial temporal lobe. Such seizures are often characterized with paranormal-like experiences. People with TLE often report sensing a presence, depersonalization (out-of-body experiences, feelings of unreality), hearing/knowing from internal sources, vestibular sensations (internal vibrations, rising/floating/spinning sensations), anxiety or panic, forced thinking, odd smells, etc (10)… > > As it turns out, a continuum of TLE exsits within the normal population. A large part of the continuum is composed of people who display complex partial epileptic signs without suffering seizures. These people, while being clinically normal, report more frequently the paranormal-type experiences seen in TLE, and are typically more likely to believe in the paranormal or in psi experiences (15). The unusual brain activity is dectable using EEG and through the use of drugs specific to TLE many disturbing paranormal experiences such as UFO abductions and haunting episodes will cease. > > Three famous examples of visitor experiences (a servere form of haunting experiences): Communion (Striber 1987), a UFO abduction story, Agartha (Young, 1984), the story of a channeled presence from another dimension, and Kundalini (Krishna, 1985), the description of an emerging mystical energy, are all predominated with TLE type phenomena. And [this guy](http://archpsyc.ama-assn.org/issues/v59n6/ffull/ylt0602-2.html) hypothesizes that no less a prophet than Ezekiel suffered from temporal lobe seizures, and that epilepsy was responsible for his visions. I’m not saying that this is the explanation for your friend’s experience, or indeed he even had such an experience. But epilepsy can indeed produce those experiences. ---
**Author:** ![JohnClay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c37758/32.png) [@JohnClay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnClay)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2002, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-supernatural-explanation-for-a-religious-vision-while-driving/132028/20 "2002-10-14T00:57:23Z")
Chronos: He didn’t remember closing his eyes before the vision or opening them afterwards. He thinks they were open the whole time. Maybe they became half closed… but the point is that he didn’t deliberately close his eyes - e.g. to have have rest. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-supernatural-explanation-for-a-religious-vision-while-driving/132028.md?page=2)