# Non-supernatural explanation for a religious vision while driving? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 13, 2002, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-supernatural-explanation-for-a-religious-vision-while-driving/132028 "2002-10-13T02:07:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![JohnClay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c37758/32.png) [@JohnClay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnClay)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2002, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-supernatural-explanation-for-a-religious-vision-while-driving/132028/21 "2002-10-14T01:02:33Z")
Here’s the lastest news: He says: > [@](#): > > Many times God has spoken to me and through me. And yes when I was a new Christian the devil tried to get my ear. He is quite real with an agenda of his own. I’m not sure if he has had other visions though… ---
**Author:** ![sugaree](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cc9497/32.png) [@sugaree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sugaree)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2002, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-supernatural-explanation-for-a-religious-vision-while-driving/132028/22 "2002-10-14T01:06:23Z")
This happened 22 years ago. In the interval, he could have worked it up until he is remembering something quite different. The original experience could have been nothing more than a feeling of peace and well-being, which became more dramatic each time he recalled and recounted it. ---
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2002, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-supernatural-explanation-for-a-religious-vision-while-driving/132028/23 "2002-10-14T17:36:34Z")
God once told my Grandmother “Drop”. It was extremely pertinent at the time. ---
**Author:** ![toadspittle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c0e974/32.png) [@toadspittle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/toadspittle)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2002, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-supernatural-explanation-for-a-religious-vision-while-driving/132028/24 "2002-10-14T18:07:59Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Yllaria \* > \*\*God once told my Grandmother “Drop”. > > It was extremely pertinent at the time. \*\* Was she a bombardier? ---
**Author:** ![Bongmaster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Bongmaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bongmaster)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2002, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-supernatural-explanation-for-a-religious-vision-while-driving/132028/25 "2002-10-17T16:36:00Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by AudreyK \* > \*\*I’d say he crafted an extraordinary story to get you thinking about God and his brand of religion. Psychiatry, the supernatural, and the fact he was driving at the time may have nothing to do with it at all. \*\* Totally and completely agree, this probably accounts for the vast majority of people’s “visions.” ---
**Author:** ![photopat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e95f7d/32.png) [@photopat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/photopat)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2002, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-supernatural-explanation-for-a-religious-vision-while-driving/132028/26 "2002-10-17T16:53:40Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Wendell Wagner \* > \*\*Most of _A Beautiful Mind_ was an utter lie. \*\* You’re not entirely wrong, but keep in mind that to make a movie audience understand even remotely what it was like for the man, the best way was to create visual hallucinations that were so real the viewers would be taken in. After all, Nash thought his hallucinations were real, but to a movie viewer, hearing voices in the air when nobody was around would be a good clue that what he was experiencing was only in his mind. It was much more convincing to create a visual hallucination that _seemed_ real, then let the viewer find out it wasn’t. There were definitely massive inaccuracies in that movie, but I don’t mind the way they related his problem to the audience. ---
**Author:** ![scotth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b9e5f3/32.png) [@scotth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scotth)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2002, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-supernatural-explanation-for-a-religious-vision-while-driving/132028/27 "2002-10-17T17:34:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Cardinal \* > \*\* > I couldn’t disagree more. > > I am a Christian not only because of my personal experiences, but because of empirical evidences and historical arguments. > \*\* I would really love to see this empirical evidence and historical argument. Please do start a GD thread with whatever you have in this way. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2002, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-supernatural-explanation-for-a-religious-vision-while-driving/132028/28 "2002-10-18T04:43:00Z")
photopat writes: \> After all, Nash thought his hallucinations were real, but to a \> movie viewer, hearing voices in the air when nobody was \> around would be a good clue that what he was experiencing \> was only in his mind. Yeah, but auditory hallucinations were only a small part of Nash’s schizophrenia. As I said, most of his schizophrenia was not about seeing things that weren’t there or about hearing things that weren’t there, it was about interpreting things that were there in some strange fashion. In other words, it was about creating conspiracy theories to explain things that really were there. In fact, I believe that that is generally true in schizophrenia. Schizophrenics sometimes have hallucinations, but most of their problems are with “disordered thinking” (creating confused and mistaken explanations of things), not problems with what they see and hear. As for the argument that the filmmakers had to do this to appeal to the audience, well, let me make an analogy: Richard Wright’s 1940 novel _Native Son_ made a very powerful statement about racism in the U.S., and Wright tried to get it made into a movie. Nobody in Hollywood would touch it. The producers in Hollywood thought (perhaps correctly) that too many people in the U.S. would hate the way it demonstrated their racism. One producer, though, went to Wright and said that he was willing to make a movie of the novel - as long as he could change the main character from a black man to a white man and eliminate the theme of racism. Not surprisingly, Wright turned him down. The producers of _A Beautiful Mind_ actually did the same thing as that producer was prepared to do to _Native Son_. They changed huge portions of Nash’s story because they thought that audiences wouldn’t accept the truth. ---
**Author:** ![photopat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e95f7d/32.png) [@photopat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/photopat)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2002, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-supernatural-explanation-for-a-religious-vision-while-driving/132028/29 "2002-10-18T15:38:44Z")
No argument Wendell. As I said, there were unquestionably some gross inaccuracies in that movie. I just meant to point out that, since most audience members wouldn’t be able to conceive of exactly how a schizophrenic would think, the film makers came up with a way of drawing us in and suggesting that what seems to be real may not be. I was really irritated when I read about Nash’s actual life and saw how much it had been sanitized for the screen. Personally I think his actual story could have made a great film. Not to continue to hijack the thread though, I do have to wonder if the person describing the incident on the road was interpreting a feeling he had, and hadn’t actually experienced a hallucination. On the other hand, maybe he was extremely tired and was already starting to think in born again terms, and he just had one of those road hypnosis occurrences, like I did once when I thought a white dog was in front of the car, and there was nothing there. (I wasn’t alone in the car at the time.) ---
**Author:** ![Milton\_De\_La\_Warre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e480ec/32.png) [@Milton\_De\_La\_Warre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Milton_De_La_Warre)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2002, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-supernatural-explanation-for-a-religious-vision-while-driving/132028/30 "2002-10-18T15:59:06Z")
Interesting… AFAIK, generally speaking schizophrenics hear voices and “know” things but do not see hallucinations. As pointed out, “Beautiful Mind” used hallucinations as a sort of stage device. But if the person referred to in the OP was schizophrenic, it would be expected that he would have gotten worse and less connected with reality over time. So I doubt he is/was so affected. Also, if he had some kind of epilepsy that was not caused by outside factors (like being hit in the head or somehting), then I think we’d have expected more than just this one vision-causing seizure. And we’d also have expected a car wreck that would have prevented him from relating his story, though he would have had the opportunity to meet Jesus directly. So perhaps sugaree has it in saying “This happened 22 years ago. In the interval, he could have worked it up until he is remembering something quite different. The original experience could have been nothing more than a feeling of peace and well-being, which became more dramatic each time he recalled and recounted it.” Which isn’t to say the guy is a liar. Perhaps the experience was so deeply moving that it prompted him to intrpret it unconciously or semi-conciously as a very specific religious vision. My thought is that if the guy has maintained his religous beliefs and lifestyle constantly for the intervening 22 years, then he genuine believes what he experienced was real. If he is an on-and-off believer and practiconer, then quite possibly he’s full of baloney. ---
**Author:** ![JohnClay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c37758/32.png) [@JohnClay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnClay)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2002, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-supernatural-explanation-for-a-religious-vision-while-driving/132028/31 "2002-10-19T05:08:01Z")
Here’s his latest reply: (I emphasized some things) > [@](#): > > [_Have you also had other visions or seen or felt the supernatural during everyday experiences? > And have you ever been diagnosed as having any kind of epilepsy?_] > > \*\*I have had other visions and have felt the supernatural presence of God during the day while just doing ordinary things. I don’t always know when God will make Himself known. I might just be walking down the hall at work when suddenly the Holy Spirit is all over me. Then God starts showing me His word of truth and I see things I had never imagined or truths that I searched for years for. > > The last sentence is unworthy of comment. Like I said, Are you that naive to believe that someone could carry a vision for 23 years and become a stronger more mature and self-assured Christian; and you still believe its just the devil? I could ask why you are incapable of seeing how illogical your thinking is.\*\* He often uses the devil to explain lots of things - such as mental problems like epilepsy. It seems that in the gospels, demons were sometimes blamed for causing epilepsy… (Matthew 17:14-18, Mark 9:17-29, Luke 9:38-42) So anyway, he has had a lot of visions… also he appears to be a very strong believer based on all the other things he has written. His visions and religious experiences are probably the main reason for his seemingly unshakeable faith. ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2002, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-supernatural-explanation-for-a-religious-vision-while-driving/132028/32 "2002-10-19T05:39:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by JohnClay \* > \*\*I’m not sure if this guy has had other visions or not… > > He says that 22 years ago he accepted Jesus as his saviour and the next day he was driving on a freeway to work. His eyes were open at the time and then he felt himself being lifted into Heaven standing before God and he saw the kingdom of Heaven, etc. God spoke and said, “You thought you could find the truth with your logic, let me show you my logic!”. Then he felt that he understood all things even why Jesus had to come to Earth. Then God said, “All of this is yours if you accept my Son”. He said he wanted it all and suddenly he was back in his car on the freeway with only the memory of what had happened. > > I was thinking maybe it could be a John Nash-style (from A Beautiful Mind) hallucination but in a bath of pleasure-giving chemicals. > > You see I don’t know much about psychiatry… so anyway, does anyone have any ideas about what could have happened - assuming that nothing supernatural was involved - ? \*\* Is it possible he fell asleep, and was fortunate enough not to crash his car before he work up? Or was just really tired? Tired drivers see a lot of things that aren’t reality…I’ve seen things while driving home late at night that weren’t really there several times: the common ones like thinking that leaves are small animals running across the road (I can never remember that the things I think they are are diurnal until after I “see” them. This a sign that you’re really too tired to drive and should stop soon. Fortunately this almost always happens within five miles of getting home) but other things too, like mailboxes I mistake for old bent over people standing on the side of the road until I get right on top of them. Once I thought I drove through a city (Lowell MA) on 495, and found out 15 minutes later that I hadn’t :eek: Since the route was something I knew backwards and forwards, and I know there was no city nearby that I’d likely to have mistaken it for, because no others ones before that were as large or visable from the highway. I must have imagined it. If my sleepy mind could conjure up an entire city, I think his could have imagined God. ---
**Author:** ![JohnClay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c37758/32.png) [@JohnClay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnClay)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2002, 6:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-supernatural-explanation-for-a-religious-vision-while-driving/132028/33 "2002-10-20T06:16:12Z")
elfkin477: Check out my latest post… apparently he’s had other visions too and heard voices and felt the presence of God. So his brain isn’t very normal… (or he has genuine contact with the supernatural realm…) Maybe he has temporal lobe epilepsy as others have said. ---
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2002, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-supernatural-explanation-for-a-religious-vision-while-driving/132028/34 "2002-10-26T00:09:27Z")
Sorry to take so long to answer, toadspittle. She wasn’t a bombadier. Her leg was on fire. With the word came the image and the kinesthetic feel of how she could drop down and sit on the leg that was on fire, smothering it. It worked. ---
**Author:** ![Kalt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Kalt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalt)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2002, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-supernatural-explanation-for-a-religious-vision-while-driving/132028/35 "2002-10-26T01:10:52Z")
when people see visions, they can either accept that they’re insane and delusional or write it off as the creator of the universe talking to them. This sounds like a drunk driver nodding off at the wheel to me. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Peyote\_Coyote](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/5f8ce5/32.png) [@The\_Peyote\_Coyote](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Peyote_Coyote)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2002, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-supernatural-explanation-for-a-religious-vision-while-driving/132028/36 "2002-10-26T02:56:18Z")
Back to the OP. I vote for good acid. ---
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2002, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-supernatural-explanation-for-a-religious-vision-while-driving/132028/37 "2002-10-26T04:42:19Z")
I think that a tendency to have vision experiences is part of being human. It’s how we’re wired. Grandma had two. I’ve had two. Subjectively, they do feel like they’re coming from outside. Grandma interpreted them as coming from god, but I had changed my outlook between my first and my second, so I experienced the second one differently. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-supernatural-explanation-for-a-religious-vision-while-driving/132028.md?page=1)