You are far more generous with anti-intellectuals than I am. They have the information and they know the source is credible, but they choose to reject it. That’s not misled, that’s willfully ignorant.
So, you admit they covered things up initially yet you think that after that they were playing it straight? We disagree on this, as on many things concerning China, so there really isn’t much point in going on with it. If you don’t see CCP incompetence, which has it’s roots in the totalitarian way they rule and control every scrap of information and ruthlessly maintain that and in how that inevitably leads to the incompetence in how they handled this thing or pretty much how they handle everything then we simply have no basis to discuss this further.
Hopefully you agree that Trump shouldn’t be given such powers, regardless of whether you think Xi or any other authoritarian dictator for life should.
I think the Trump regime has graphically demonstrated that the president’s powers are too wide as it is, and he is constantly stretching them further and further. Now, BOTH parties are complaining about his Executive Orders.
I wonder if Rome the Republic had this debate before they created Caesar and Rome the Empire.
Addendum: Based on his attitude and behavior thus far, he would do just the opposite. He would force everyone to go back to work and back to school. He would make enforcing CDC health guidelines illegal (masks, social distancing, etc.). I think he was create COVID-19 deaths by the droves.
Yes, because in both cases I am basing my opinion on evidence.
I know a lot of people like to frame it as either you trust the Chinese government or you don’t. Well, I don’t trust the Chinese government, and I am disgusted by what is happening in Xinjiang and Hong Kong. But that doesn’t make every conspiracy theory true.
The idea that China was somehow “hiding” thousands of covid cases was ridiculous on its face already in March. We’re now in August, approaching 6 months after factories, malls etc across the country reopened, and there’s not one example of a case not being reported. In a country of 1.4 billion.
It’s beyond silly at this point to suggest the virus was not really suppressed.
On the evidence of your own anecdotal judgement and that give by a totalitarian government with a history of lying about anything they deem would hurt them. Yeah, you are.
It’s like the idea that they are hiding literally 10’s of thousands of organ harvesting deaths a year. Sure, it sounds incredible but…they actually are. Them hiding a few 10’s or 100’s of thousands of Covid deaths by saying they died of something else isn’t even as implausible as stuff they do all the time. It’s what you get when you control the narrative so completely, and you have the media completely under the control of the party so that it does and says what you want it too. Sorry, man, I know you think this isn’t happening because you live there, and I know you think you aren’t buying the CCPs crap, but this is a classic example of the big lie.
Let’s talk about some of these anecdotes.
The first, rather big one, is that the country has essentially been fully opened up for half a year now.
It would be one thing if everything was still shut down and cases were somehow being hidden. Implausible but not ridiculous.
But a full opening up in the midst of community spread would be utterly suicidal and cases should be skyrocketing. There should be millions of cases by now; everyone should know someone affected.
Where are they?
Where is one?
The second is that I actually work in the medical industry here; my job involves travelling to hospitals around China. The hospitals are no more busy than they were prior to the crisis and are treating low priority cases with little wait time. How can this be? How can even medical workers be unaffected by this supposed secret crisis?
Let’s consider the burden of proof. The cases being officially reported can all be traced; when they say two Chinese returnees at Shanghai Pudong airport were diagnosed with covid, the identities of those people is available, as is the location where they are being quarantined. Versus, what evidence of thousands of hidden cases…?
You’ve made up your mind based on zero evidence, and so nothing could ever potentially change your mind.
I think your answer to ‘where?’ would tell the tale. Unless you want to try and assert you have traveled throughout the country, visited every or even most (or even a handful) of provinces and seen first hand, your anecdotal evidence is just that…anecdotal. And based on your own perceptions and the information you are spoon fed.
Without getting into details I can tell you that I have my own sources of anecdotal ‘evidence’, and it’s contradicts your own narrative…though this isn’t really that surprising considering where I presume you live (let me guess…it’s one of the top tier cities, right?) and where they live. Since you live there, surely you must know that perception changes depending on where you live…and what economic class you are? The fact that you post on this message board says volumes about you…perhaps even more than you think it does.
It’s hardly ‘zero evidence’…it’s simply evidence you’ve dismissed. And I could say the same for you. Which is why I tend to avoid discussing this subject with you. You choose to, again, confront me on this and in a deliberate way to make whatever point you seem to be trying to make, or spin whatever you are trying to spin, knowing I disagree with you fundamentally on this and am unlikely to change my mind.
Since this is all off-topic, I’ll leave it there.
Anyone following this discussion can make up their own mind as to who has referred to actual empirical data, and who has presented fuck all.
I would not give any powers to an insane liar. Hypothetically, if in fact it would guarantee no Covid deaths, it does not guarantee no nuclear war or any other apocalypse he could get us into.
The OP is kind of like “Would I give my car keys to my toddler if I knew she could drive me safely to hospital before I died of a heart attack?”
In strictly logical terms I guess I should say yes? Though nothing about this hypothetical guarantees that she won’t hop straight back in the car and cause a massive firey crash ten minutes later.
In the real world, however, there’s nothing about this outre hypothetical that ever leads me to give my real life car keys to a real life toddler
Very true. Unfortunately, the toddler-in-chief is incapable of doing anything unless it directly profits him in some manner. Look at all his executive orders - he is destroying regulatory agencies right and left, including the very ones responsible for keeping us healthy, so why would I want to empower him to do anything else? He is already trying to force his way into becoming president for life …