# Non-U.S. Dopers: What Are Typical "American" Traits? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 17, 2008, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-u-s-dopers-what-are-typical-american-traits/464010 "2008-09-17T18:25:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2008, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-u-s-dopers-what-are-typical-american-traits/464010/261 "2008-09-30T01:01:35Z")
> [@Hypnagogic\_Jerk](#): > > I believe what bothers people is the fact that some Americans identify themselves by what ethnic group they are a part of (or the most “interesting” ethnic group they are a part of, if there’s more than one), even though they don’t have much connection with the culture of their “homeland” anymore, if ever. That’s not quite the case with the children in this class, some of whom barely spoke English when the school year started. That resentment is understandable, but it’s important to keep in mind that, based on my experience, 99.99% of the time when Americans say they’re Irish or Dutch or whatever, they only mean to state a fact of heritage, and not to claim actual identity. There’s a gulf of difference between the two. The heritage part is unavoidable on one level, because with the exception of full-blooded Native Americans, we all came from someplace else, or our foreparents did. The entire history of America, exclusive of NAs, is of English Americans and Irish Americans and Dutch Americans and so on. Granted, with the Irish it’s sort of a special case, because we have a yearly occasion when people put on green hats and claim their Irishness while drinking large quantities of beer. I can certainly see some offense there, and most of us here think it’s stupid too. ---
**Author:** ![Springtime\_for\_Spacers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Springtime\_for\_Spacers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Springtime_for_Spacers)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2008, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-u-s-dopers-what-are-typical-american-traits/464010/262 "2008-09-30T01:50:54Z")
> [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](#): > > That resentment is understandable, but it’s important to keep in mind that, based on my experience, 99.99% of the time when Americans say they’re Irish or Dutch or whatever, they only mean to state a fact of heritage, and not to claim actual identity. There’s a gulf of difference between the two. The heritage part is unavoidable on one level, because with the exception of full-blooded Native Americans, we all came from someplace else, or our foreparents did. The entire history of America, exclusive of NAs, is of English Americans and Irish Americans and Dutch Americans and so on. > > Granted, with the Irish it’s sort of a special case, because we have a yearly occasion when people put on green hats and claim their Irishness while drinking large quantities of beer. I can certainly see some offense there, and most of us here think it’s stupid too. The only person I know who gets really frustated when Americans claim their heritage as their national identity is an immigration officer at Dover. “No you are not Italian/Swedish/German etc, please get in the queue with all the other non EU passport holders.” ---
**Author:** ![put\_down\_the\_sabre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/da6949/32.png) [@put\_down\_the\_sabre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/put_down_the_sabre)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2008, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-u-s-dopers-what-are-typical-american-traits/464010/263 "2008-09-30T02:36:36Z")
> [@Springtime\_for\_Spacers](#): > > The only person I know who gets really frustated when Americans claim their heritage as their national identity is an immigration officer at Dover. “No you are not Italian/Swedish/German etc, please get in the queue with all the other non EU passport holders.” Do they really do this? I disbelieve - could anyone really be that stupid? pdts ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2008, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-u-s-dopers-what-are-typical-american-traits/464010/264 "2008-09-30T02:48:20Z")
> [@put\_down\_the\_sabre](#): > > Do they really do this? I disbelieve - could anyone really be that stupid? > > pdts My understanding, confirmed not too long ago on the Irish immigration info website, is that having at least one grandparent who was native Irish would entitle you to an Irish passport, or at least it would entitle you some kind of preference in the immigration approval process. Undoubtedly there are documentation requirements that have to be met. Maybe the non-EU foreigners who get in the EU line have this genetic qualification, but think they don’t need to apply first, or go through any other paperwork. It’s still stupid, though. You’d think it didn’t have to be said that one needs to go through the process first. ---
**Author:** ![Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hypnagogic_jerk/32/4252_2.png) [@Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypnagogic_Jerk)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2008, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-u-s-dopers-what-are-typical-american-traits/464010/265 "2008-09-30T05:59:03Z")
> [@ruadh](#): > > Yes, I realise that people think of an “Irish ethnicity” in a way that they don’t think of an “American ethnicity”. But that doesn’t make it any less of an inconsistent way of looking at things. In reality, the Irish are a blend of origins just as Americans are. Looking at it this way, there’s no such thing as a “pure” ethnic group in the first place. > [@](#): > > Furthermore, if we are to take it that “Irishness” is something that can only be passed down through the generations, then what we’re saying is that the descendants of these Nigerian and Polish immigrants will \*never \* really be Irish, which is a route I really don’t think we want to go down. Irish ethnicity can probably only be passed down through the generations, but “Irishness” doesn’t require this. The descendants of these Nigerian and Polish immigrants shall be Irish, but they won’t necessarily be Irish, if you know what I mean. (That’s the problem with nation-states: the country and cultural identity, and the ethnic group, have the same name, so it’s hard to know what we’re talking about.) ---
**Author:** ![ruadh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@ruadh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ruadh)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2008, 6:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-u-s-dopers-what-are-typical-american-traits/464010/266 "2008-09-30T06:47:15Z")
> [@Hypnagogic\_Jerk](#): > > Looking at it this way, there’s no such thing as a “pure” ethnic group in the first place. And indeed, there isn’t. > [@](#): > > Irish ethnicity can probably only be passed down through the generations, but “Irishness” doesn’t require this. The descendants of these Nigerian and Polish immigrants shall be Irish, but they won’t necessarily be Irish, if you know what I mean. I know what you mean - it’s like the _Russkie_ or _Rossiyanin_ distinction I was talking about earlier. The problem is there isn’t any such distinction in the language spoken in Ireland; you’re either Irish or you aren’t, and in the eyes of a lot of people here, the descendants of these immigrants aren’t. ---
**Author:** ![GomiBoy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b2d939/32.png) [@GomiBoy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GomiBoy)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2008, 9:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-u-s-dopers-what-are-typical-american-traits/464010/267 "2008-09-30T09:26:18Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > The one that I’ve found to be the most true (after Americans generally being very friendly an polite) is that they have _no_ idea about anything outside their own borders, and if they do, it’s Canada/Mexico/Spent a year in Europe/UK. > > I’ve had a number of Americans admit they’ve got no idea where Australia is beyond “In the South Pacific Somewhere”, and most of the ones I’ve met who do know where Australia is are unable to name another city besides Sydney. > > Yet I get strange looks when I confess that I’m not familiar with Asinine, NM or Copperfeel Creek, OR in the US. > > So it’s OK for you to not know where one of the largest countries (by land area) on the planet is, but it’s not OK for me to never have heard of some hick town in the backwaters of a state miles from anywhere of interest? Sorry about not reading the whole thread before responding but I wanted to address this one… All geography is local. Meaning, Europeans learn European geography because it’s their backyard; most Brits I know can name the countries and capitals of nearly all European countries, and anything that used to be part of the Empire, because that was their back yard. Similar for the Germans and French that I know. The Americans learn their own geography first and longest. I’ve lived in Europe for long enough that I can do both pretty well, and have travelled around enough to have visited most major cities and capitals in Western and Central Europe, and since I’ve many Australian mates I know lots about Australia, but I still have to explain to lots of Europeans who have a vague idea of the US states where Montana is. Or if you want to be a bit more cynical about it, people always care most about what they call ‘home’ and less about everything else. This goes for Americans as much as anyone, but I’ve met plenty of Brits who were just as ignorant about internal American mores and politics as Americans were of mores and politics outside the US. And in general I find that on casual acquaintance, Europeans are far less likely to give out personal details but once you meet them in strictly social occasions after the first time, they are just like Americans - they want to know where I’m from, where my ancestors come from, and why and for how long I lived in England. So I guess that’s one thing about Americans - we’re far more casual about giving out personal details on short acquaintance than our European cousins, but once lubricated appropriately the personal details will be asked and discussed. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2008, 9:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-u-s-dopers-what-are-typical-american-traits/464010/268 "2008-09-30T09:34:13Z")
> [@ruadh](#): > > And indeed, there isn’t. > > I know what you mean - it’s like the _Russkie_ or _Rossiyanin_ distinction I was talking about earlier. The problem is there isn’t any such distinction in the language spoken in Ireland; you’re either Irish or you aren’t, and in the eyes of a lot of people here, the descendants of these immigrants aren’t. I’d say give it time. Mass immigration has only been happening here for a little over a dozen years. As yet there isn’t a significant number of second generation ‘immigrants’. Anti-immigrant sentiment has existed to a certain degree everywhere there has been mass immigration. This includes the US, UK and other nation states. I’m not saying it’s okay because everyone else does it just that it will take time for these issues to be worked out. ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2008, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-u-s-dopers-what-are-typical-american-traits/464010/269 "2008-09-30T12:59:48Z")
Politeness: i find that americans are polite in line-like at a ski lift. In europe, people cut in front of you, cross your tails, push and shove. That isn’t done in the US. ---
**Author:** ![Springtime\_for\_Spacers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Springtime\_for\_Spacers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Springtime_for_Spacers)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2008, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-u-s-dopers-what-are-typical-american-traits/464010/270 "2008-09-30T13:09:43Z")
> [@put\_down\_the\_sabre](#): > > Do they really do this? I disbelieve - could anyone really be that stupid? > > pdts Fraid so. I’m sure it’s only a minority and they’re probably as confused about European borders as much as anything else. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2008, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-u-s-dopers-what-are-typical-american-traits/464010/271 "2008-09-30T21:21:35Z")
> [@Frustrated\_Wonderer](#): > > Americans, I find, are reluctant to give straight, no B.S points of views to many subjects. They tend to be TOO respectful in my opinion. This at first can be mis-interprted as a form of shallownes\insecurity\snobiness. This is interesting–I’d never heard this, because I thought one of our traits–at least stereotypically if you will–was that we’re usually too blunt. OTOH I have heard over-respectfulness ascribed to some East Asian cultures. BTW I know one of the stereotypes is how we dress when we travel. From what I’ve seen when traveling myself, and from other sources, this is sadly based in fact. In the 1950s it was horrendous loud shirts and Bermudas. Now it’s just general slovenliness, a natural result of the state of fashion. Only the other day I was reading some personal stories at the back of a travel mag. One woman recounted how her husband and she, along with their grown children, flew to Spain. The airplane cabin was way too hot, and although many passengers complained, it stayed that way. Going back to use the lavatory, she noticed a slovenly young man who had taken his shirt off. She was repulsed and annoyed–then she noticed who it was: her son. The story’s title was, “Well, you raised him!” :smack: On behalf of my country, I’m sorry!😃 ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2008, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-u-s-dopers-what-are-typical-american-traits/464010/272 "2008-09-30T22:32:29Z")
With regard to the Irish-descended people in America, I think it’s safe to say that self-identification with the old country is a little more common than with any other old country, with the possible exception of Italy. Sad to say, the treatment of immigrants in America has not always been exemplary, and when the Irish began immigrating here in large numbers, in the 19th century, they were often disdained and marginalized by the Protestant mainstream. Italians were treated similarly. I think in the beginning, this fostered an “us/them” mentality on both sides, which may have led to a protracted tendency to self-identify as Irish within the group. Staying in the cities of the East Coast after landing probably intensified this; they lived in poor areas of the cities, surrounded by other ethnic groups who didn’t like them (or each other), and fighting was a way of life for the boys of the neighborhood. In fact, according to Harpo Marx\*, growing up Jewish in similar surroundings, there was a whole system of challenge and answer. If the Irish or Italian kids from the next block ganged up you, then, later, you’d round up some of your own guys and go over there and return the favor. Come to think of it, this labeling someone as being from the old country probably was protracted by the urban environment. In the same book, Harpo says that he quit school after the second grade, “for two main reasons–a big Irish kid, and a bigger Irish kid.” Those kids had probably been born in America, just as Harpo had, but given the endemic ethnic strife, the tendency to identify oneself, and others, with Old World cultures was strong. It takes a long time to forget where you came from when you have to spend a few generations literally fighting for your life. Institutional discrimination and prejudice against Irish Americans belongs now to the distant past, but more subtle discrimination still exists. When JFK was nominated in 1960, many questioned whether a Catholic could get elected President in this country, and JFK is still the only Irish-American or Catholic president we’ve had. So the excesses and frivolity of Saint Patrick’s Day, and all the claims of Irish identity may well be rooted in the difficulties faced by the early immigrants. Any way you look at it, the experiences of the Irish in America shaped them and, IMO, fostered a cultural identity unique to them. It shaped them as much as the several Bloody Sundays shaped their cousins who stayed behind in the old country. Similar points could be made regarding Italian Americans. So don’t judge these people too harshly for saying they’re Irish. They know they are Americans, but they’ve also got every right to take pride in their history, and the Irish ethnicity which defined them and, in the early years, was not watered down, but intensified by their struggle to succeed in a new country. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2008, 7:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-u-s-dopers-what-are-typical-american-traits/464010/273 "2008-10-01T07:51:57Z")
> [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](#): > > It shaped them as much as the several Bloody Sundays shaped their cousins who stayed behind in the old country. This is a bit of a bizarre statement in an otherwise fine post in my opinion. To what extent do you think the several Bloody Sundays shaped people in Ireland? ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2008, 8:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-u-s-dopers-what-are-typical-american-traits/464010/274 "2008-10-01T08:25:32Z")
> [@An\_Gadai](#): > > This is a bit of a bizarre statement in an otherwise fine post in my opinion. To what extent do you think the several Bloody Sundays shaped people in Ireland? I’m just going on the assumption that people were conscious of these events, discussed them as events of the day, and it became part of the history of common reference, the way Watergate and the Civil War are here. ---
**Author:** ![irspariah](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/35a633/32.png) [@irspariah](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/irspariah)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2008, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-u-s-dopers-what-are-typical-american-traits/464010/275 "2008-10-02T01:29:57Z")
> [@put\_down\_the\_sabre](#): > > It’s a Simpsons reference. > > pdts It’s also from USes and THEMians ---
**Author:** ![MOIDALIZE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@MOIDALIZE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MOIDALIZE)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2008, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-u-s-dopers-what-are-typical-american-traits/464010/276 "2008-10-02T01:59:46Z")
I’ve noticed that many Americans are intelligent and athletic and have big American penises. ---
**Author:** ![Frustrated\_Wonderer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a4c791/32.png) [@Frustrated\_Wonderer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frustrated_Wonderer)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2008, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-u-s-dopers-what-are-typical-american-traits/464010/277 "2008-10-02T14:23:16Z")
One other observation I´d like to point out about Americans, from my perspective is that I´ve seldom met Americans who are as proud of there country as the media suggests. Not saying that Americans aren´t proud of there country, of course they are, but most I´ve met are very modest. I suppose my view has been distorted somewhat by all the politicians claiming America is special, or America is the best country in the world and the like. Not to sound completely stupid, but most American´s I´ve met are aware of there being a world (and other countries!) out there, and they fully recognize and appreciate them as much as any-one else. This is something that speaks really well the people in general. Like anywhere else, there are exeptions. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-u-s-dopers-what-are-typical-american-traits/464010.md?page=13)