# Non-Ukrainian civilians want to go to Ukraine to fight (BAD IDEA) **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Tags:** ukraine-invasion\ **Created:** [March 6, 2022, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-ukrainian-civilians-want-to-go-to-ukraine-to-fight-bad-idea/960588 "2022-03-06T23:28:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2022, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-ukrainian-civilians-want-to-go-to-ukraine-to-fight-bad-idea/960588/1 "2022-03-06T23:28:32Z")
I’m hearing stories about Americans, and other non-Ukrainians, who want to go to Ukraine and fight the big, bad Russians. I just can’t imagine that this self-styled mercenary force, which is what it seems to be, could end well on any level. If there’s already a thread about this, go ahead and whoosh them. ---
**Author:** ![ekedolphin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ekedolphin/32/10003_2.png) [@ekedolphin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ekedolphin)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2022, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-ukrainian-civilians-want-to-go-to-ukraine-to-fight-bad-idea/960588/2 "2022-03-06T23:34:29Z")
They talk about how they’ll take a bullet to defend people they don’t even know, but most of them probably wouldn’t even wear a mask to protect grandma from dying from covid. ---
**Author:** ![dolphinboy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dolphinboy/32/330_2.png) [@dolphinboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dolphinboy)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2022, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-ukrainian-civilians-want-to-go-to-ukraine-to-fight-bad-idea/960588/3 "2022-03-06T23:42:54Z")
I understand why someone would want to do it. Zelensky has specifically asked for people to come to help them fight, so there’s that. Whether it’s a good idea or not depends on how you value what they are trying to do. I doubt this will turn the tide, but assuming they are trained and supervised I don’t see a downside for Ukraine. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2022, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-ukrainian-civilians-want-to-go-to-ukraine-to-fight-bad-idea/960588/4 "2022-03-06T23:44:45Z")
At least a portion of these folks are veterans of Iraq and Afghanistan who may have the mindset that if they’re not fighting in a war then they’re not being useful to the world. I’ve known a few guys like that. War can do crazy things to people. Some people learn that they, personally, need a cause to fight for to keep themselves going. And those are probably the folks that will be most helpful to Ukraine. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2022, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-ukrainian-civilians-want-to-go-to-ukraine-to-fight-bad-idea/960588/5 "2022-03-06T23:48:32Z")
It’s all good as long as Ukraine does effective vetting. I’m sure that Putin would love to send in spies and saboteurs disguised as “fighters”. ---
**Author:** ![ekedolphin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ekedolphin/32/10003_2.png) [@ekedolphin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ekedolphin)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2022, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-ukrainian-civilians-want-to-go-to-ukraine-to-fight-bad-idea/960588/6 "2022-03-06T23:51:51Z")
> [@dolphinboy](#): > > I understand why someone would want to do it. Zelensky has specifically asked for people to come to help them fight, so there’s that. > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > At least a portion of these folks are veterans of Iraq and Afghanistan who may have the mindset that if they’re not fighting in a war then they’re not being useful to the world. I’ve known a few guys like that. > [@wolfpup](#): > > It’s all good as long as Ukraine does effective vetting. And some of these guys are going to come in looking for any excuse to come in and shoot someone and not have to go to prison for it. (See: Any number of right-wing Republican gun nuts). ---
**Author:** ![CaptMurdock](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/captmurdock/32/11736_2.png) [@CaptMurdock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaptMurdock)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2022, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-ukrainian-civilians-want-to-go-to-ukraine-to-fight-bad-idea/960588/7 "2022-03-07T00:17:46Z")
> [@ekedolphin](#): > > And some of these guys are going to come in looking for any excuse to come in and shoot someone and not have to go to prison for it. (See: Any number of right-wing Republican gun nuts). Great. Bubba McBeergut is going to haul his fat ass off the couch, buy a ticket for Ukraine, and join the fight in order to drop the hammer on something besides a paper target, without get hauled into court by the Woke Snowflakes. Yeah, that’ll send Vlad running screaming into the night. ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2022, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-ukrainian-civilians-want-to-go-to-ukraine-to-fight-bad-idea/960588/8 "2022-03-07T00:21:41Z")
And then there are the naïve types who have a romantic notion of what war is like. They will quickly learn that real war is not like how it’s portrayed in the movies. ---
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2022, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-ukrainian-civilians-want-to-go-to-ukraine-to-fight-bad-idea/960588/9 "2022-03-07T00:22:34Z")
Seems like a win/win situation tbh. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2022, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-ukrainian-civilians-want-to-go-to-ukraine-to-fight-bad-idea/960588/10 "2022-03-07T00:24:17Z")
What would happen to an American citizen who is captured by the Russians while defending Ukraine? Would they be treated better or worse than Ukrainian combatants? ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2022, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-ukrainian-civilians-want-to-go-to-ukraine-to-fight-bad-idea/960588/11 "2022-03-07T00:36:12Z")
> [@nearwildheaven](#): > > I’m hearing stories about Americans, and other non-Ukrainians, who want to go to Ukraine and fight the big, bad Russians. I just can’t imagine that this self-styled mercenary force, which is what it seems to be, could end well on any level. Well, that would be up to the Ukrainians (who have actually asked for foreign volunteers) to vet out the real knuckleheads and idiots. But asking for foreign fighters to assist in something like this is a desperation move…but there is actually a lot of historical precedence for it. Americans went to fight in just this fashion in WWI, WWII, and the Spanish Civil War…and those are examples just off the top of my head. As no western country can or will be sending them actual fighters or involving themselves directly (we simply can’t), this is all that Ukraine can do. I’m not sure it’s a bad idea…I think it’s a desperate idea. ---
**Author:** ![NetTrekker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nettrekker/32/2909_2.png) [@NetTrekker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NetTrekker)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2022, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-ukrainian-civilians-want-to-go-to-ukraine-to-fight-bad-idea/960588/12 "2022-03-07T23:49:04Z")
I think it’s a great idea. Russia has already lost the war in the long term because of this. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2022, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-ukrainian-civilians-want-to-go-to-ukraine-to-fight-bad-idea/960588/13 "2022-03-07T23:53:20Z")
How do you know what their politics are? ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2022, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-ukrainian-civilians-want-to-go-to-ukraine-to-fight-bad-idea/960588/14 "2022-03-08T02:13:46Z")
> **[‘I Just Can’t Stand By’: American Veterans Join the Fight in Ukraine](https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/05/us/american-veterans-volunteer-ukraine-russia.html)** > > All across the country, small groups of military veterans are hungry for what they see as a righteous fight to defend freedom against an autocratic aggressor. Might be behind wall if you’ve used up free articles. Motivations include recapturing clarity and purpose in a war with a clear good and bad side, some wanting to make amends for “failed missions in Iraq and Afghanistan”, One man quoted, a former medic, stated “I feel obligated. It’s the innocent people being attacked- the kids. It’s the kids man. I just can’t stand by.” I don’t know who they voted for for President but they seem deserving of respect, more than those of us who feel we are doing our part by not drinking Russian vodka. As to what would happen if captured? The article quotes the Russian Defense Minister as stating that they would be considered as mercenaries. “At best, they can expect to be prosecuted as criminals,” at worst? Well they would not protected by rules regarding prisoners of war. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2022, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-ukrainian-civilians-want-to-go-to-ukraine-to-fight-bad-idea/960588/15 "2022-03-08T02:27:36Z")
> [@ekedolphin](#): > > They talk about how they’ll take a bullet to defend people they don’t even know, but most of them probably wouldn’t even wear a mask to protect grandma from dying from covid. People who are volunteering to fight and risk their lives against a tyrannical conqueror are maybe not the first people I’d accuse of being selfish. ---
**Author:** ![Bootb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e19b73/32.png) [@Bootb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bootb)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2022, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-ukrainian-civilians-want-to-go-to-ukraine-to-fight-bad-idea/960588/16 "2022-03-08T03:18:32Z")
> [@nearwildheaven](#): > > I’m hearing stories about Americans, and other non-Ukrainians, who want to go to Ukraine and fight the big, bad Russians. I just can’t imagine that this self-styled mercenary force, which is what it seems to be, could end well on any level. If having foreigners fight wars was such a bad idea, one assumes that the French would have come around to your way of thinking sometime in the last couple hundred years. But they haven’t. > **[French Foreign Legion | History & Facts](https://www.britannica.com/topic/French-Foreign-Legion)** > > French Foreign Legion, elite military force consisting of volunteer soldiers for service in France and abroad. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2022, 10:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-ukrainian-civilians-want-to-go-to-ukraine-to-fight-bad-idea/960588/17 "2022-03-08T10:45:23Z")
It provides great cover for mercenaries to go in, while claiming they are just volunteers. It’s how countries can send in troops to help without causing WWIII. ---
**Author:** ![Baal\_Houtham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baal_houtham/32/13604_2.png) [@Baal\_Houtham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baal_Houtham)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2022, 11:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-ukrainian-civilians-want-to-go-to-ukraine-to-fight-bad-idea/960588/18 "2022-03-08T11:15:37Z")
If someone has combat experience, or can operate specialized equipment, and Ukraine wants them, they’ve got my blessing. It’s easy to argue against anything that could lead to bleeding out in the mud, or being imprisoned in a foreign jail, but the cause seems noble and not hopeless. ---
**Author:** ![Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/half_man_half_wit/32/21766_2.png) [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Half_Man_Half_Wit)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2022, 11:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-ukrainian-civilians-want-to-go-to-ukraine-to-fight-bad-idea/960588/19 "2022-03-08T11:31:13Z")
I have nothing really to add on whether it’s a good or bad idea (and I’m not sure that could be decided on general principle), and not enough knowledge of warfare to evaluate whether it could make any sort of difference, but there’s some famous precendent for such an action, like Lord Byron joining the Greek war for independence against the Ottoman empire, George Orwell fighting in the Spanish civil war, or Ambrose Bierce vanishing in the throes of the Mexican revolution (although I’m not entirely sure whether he intended to fight there, I believe he was already quite old by that point). ---
**Author:** ![ExTank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@ExTank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExTank)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2022, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-ukrainian-civilians-want-to-go-to-ukraine-to-fight-bad-idea/960588/20 "2022-03-08T12:37:02Z")
Meh. A FB group for Veterans posted some bit from a guy talking about how he wanted to go over there to fight…but he was concerned about the Covid vaccination status of Ukrainians. We got a good chuckle. We figured him to be like the guy that, on Veteran’s Day and Memorial Day, tells every Vet he meets about how he _ **almost** _ joined the military. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-ukrainian-civilians-want-to-go-to-ukraine-to-fight-bad-idea/960588.md?page=2)