# Non-US Dopers: What do you see as ridiculous American propaganda? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [May 7, 2014, 5:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-us-dopers-what-do-you-see-as-ridiculous-american-propaganda/687876 "2014-05-07T05:48:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Duckster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duckster/32/1244_2.png) [@Duckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duckster)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2014, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-us-dopers-what-do-you-see-as-ridiculous-american-propaganda/687876/61 "2014-05-07T21:01:59Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > Yeah, the whole “greatest country in the world” thing. When, in reality, the US doesn’t rank number one in any metric, and in a lot of cases barely cracks the top 10. > > Look, I like your country, but you’re not the best in the world at anything anymore, OK? > [@](#): > > "Just in case you accidentally wander into a voting booth one day, there are some things you should know, and one of them is: There is absolutely no evidence to support the statement that we’re the greatest country in the world. > > "We’re seventh in literacy, twenty-seventh in math, twenty-second in science, forty-ninth in life expectancy, 178th in infant mortality, third in median household income, number four in labor force, and number four in exports. > > "We lead the world in only three categories: number of incarcerated citizens per capita, number of adults who believe angels are real, and defense spending, where we spend more than the next twenty-six countries combined, twenty-five of whom are allies. None of this is the fault of a 20-year-old college student, but you, nonetheless, are without a doubt a member of the WORST-period-GENERATION-period-EVER-period, so when you ask what makes us the greatest country in the world, I don’t know what the fuck you’re talking about! Yosemite? > > "We sure used to be. We stood up for what was right. We fought for moral reasons, we passed laws, struck down laws for moral reasons. We waged wars on poverty, not poor people. We sacrificed, we cared about our neighbors, we put our money where our mouths were, and we never beat our chest. We built great big things, made ungodly technological advances, explored the universe, cured diseases, and we cultivated the world’s greatest artists and the world’s greatest economy. We reached for the stars, acted like men. We aspired to intelligence; we didn’t belittle it; it didn’t make us feel inferior. We didn’t identify ourselves by who we voted for in the last election, and we didn’t scare so easy. We were able to be all these things and do all these things because we were informed. By great men, men who were revered. The first step in solving any problem is recognizing there is one. America is not the greatest country in the world anymore. > > “Enough?” Will McAvoy, _The Newsroom_, [http://www.imdb.com/character/ch0308974/quotes](http://www.imdb.com/character/ch0308974/quotes) [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/wTjMqda19wk/hqdefault.jpg "The Newsroom - America is not the greatest country in the world anymore...(Restricted language)") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wTjMqda19wk) ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2014, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-us-dopers-what-do-you-see-as-ridiculous-american-propaganda/687876/62 "2014-05-07T21:13:38Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > Even more bizarre is that, within the last decade or so, anyway, it’s not deification of the actual Founding Fathers. It’s deification of their idealized versions of the Founding Fathers. In their minds, the Founding Fathers are actually the devoutly Evangelical Founding Fathers who wanted the USA to be a Christian theocracy. It is not just conservatives who do it though. My American (ex) brother-in-law is very liberal, and a very smart and successful lawyer, who is very knowledgeable about U.S. history, but he has his own version of deification of the Founding Fathers (or the right ones, especially Jefferson) that often seemed quite bizarre to (British) me. Although I often agreed with his political conclusions, it was weird to me that the main support he would offer for them was largely along the lines of “this is what Jefferson would have done (as I can can show by reference to such-and-such passages in his writings), and/or what Hamilton would have opposed.” Actually, it was a lot more nuanced than simple hero-worship of Jefferson, but, nevertheless, he really did seem to conceptualize present-day constitutional and politico-ethical disputes largely in terms of the positions and arguments of the various Founding Fathers, and would quote their arguments, at length, in support of his own views. To me it was bizarre, as if someone in contemporary Britain took their political and ethical cues from Pitt the Younger, or Walpole. ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2014, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-us-dopers-what-do-you-see-as-ridiculous-american-propaganda/687876/63 "2014-05-07T21:17:12Z")
News programs being wall to wall in red, white and blue and every other splash screen being a flag backdrop is pretty weird. Even weirder when supposedly progressive, independent channels like TYT do the same thing. Don’t want to be accused of being unpatriotic I guess. Daily Show does it too. At least Colbert does it semi-ironically. The combination of militarism and sports is skeevy too. National anthem before each game, soldiers in uniform, jets flying overhead, dudes belting out battle cries as the singer holds the last note…settle down guys, we’re not charging over a hill yet. Reminds me of a comment from IOZ I think, something like, “I was watching a military commercial and a football game broke out.” ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2014, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-us-dopers-what-do-you-see-as-ridiculous-american-propaganda/687876/64 "2014-05-07T21:19:42Z")
[QUOTE=marshmallow] The combination of militarism and sports is skeevy too. National anthem before each game, dudes belting out battle cries as the singer holds the last note…settle down guys, we’re not charging over a hill yet. Reminds me of a comment from IOZ I think, something like, “I was watching a military commercial and a football game broke out.” [/QUOTE] Don’t forget teams wearing camouflage uniforms. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2014, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-us-dopers-what-do-you-see-as-ridiculous-american-propaganda/687876/65 "2014-05-07T21:21:34Z")
> [@cmyk](#): > > Of course, according to prophecy, The Pledge of Allegiance will be recited from memory by only the most patriotic among us—hand in hand over the grave of Benjamin Franklin, thereby resurrecting him from the dead by way of our one, true God, to finally gain dominion over all the earth as is America’s rite, having invented freedom, democracy, rock and roll and cold, hard cash. All those who have taken the Pledge will be immune from Franklin’s electric wrath. [Kneel before Ben.](http://ww1.prweb.com/prfiles/2012/11/16/10144237/Benjamin%20Franklin%20with%20Lightning%20Gun.png) ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2014, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-us-dopers-what-do-you-see-as-ridiculous-american-propaganda/687876/66 "2014-05-07T21:25:01Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Don’t forget teams wearing camouflage uniforms. True camouflage would be red, white and blue to blend in with the rest of the crowd. ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2014, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-us-dopers-what-do-you-see-as-ridiculous-american-propaganda/687876/67 "2014-05-07T21:26:56Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > [Kneel before Ben.](http://ww1.prweb.com/prfiles/2012/11/16/10144237/Benjamin%20Franklin%20with%20Lightning%20Gun.png) Yes. All bow before the Holy Woodcuts of the Prophecy of Allegiance! ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2014, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-us-dopers-what-do-you-see-as-ridiculous-american-propaganda/687876/68 "2014-05-07T21:41:36Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > Yeah, the whole “greatest country in the world” thing. When, in reality, the US doesn’t rank number one in any metric, and in a lot of cases barely cracks the top 10. Actually (and speaking as a Brit), yes it does. America may not be number one in as many ways as many Americans like to think, but is still far and away the most militarily and financially powerful country in the world, and the most internationally influential, even without having to noticeably flex its military of financial muscles. What is more, it has achieved that level of military and financial power while still retaining an enviable degree of political and social liberty and openness. (It may not be quite the beacon of liberty that it likes to imagine it is, but it manages a lot better, in that regard, than most other military superpowers have done throughout history.) There is reason to think it is on the downward slide in this respect, but it has quite a long way to fall. America almost certainly still has the best higher education system in the world, too, (although how much longer it can sustain that position is questionable) and, largely as a corollary of that, it easily leads the world in scientific research (although partly for merely quantitative reasons). There are probably also several other ways that America really does remain number one. In a lot of areas of international sport, for instance (and not just the sports that the rest of the world isn’t interested in). A lot of its dominance (in science, sport, etc.) arises from sheer size and wealth, but those are real enough things, and are especially significant in combination. America may not be the wealthiest country in per capita terms, but it is pretty darn wealthy even per capita, and it is _by far_ the largest (in terms of population) of the wealthy countries. There is a lot wrong with America, and things may be getting worse, but ther is still a lot right with it. (And, just to make it clear, I am not American.) ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2014, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-us-dopers-what-do-you-see-as-ridiculous-american-propaganda/687876/69 "2014-05-07T22:10:46Z")
> [@PurpleClogs](#): > > My bold. It’s voluntary in both those states too. Like that matters to a 7 year old being told to recite it. It’s just the beginning of the jingoism that we face all our lives. I like to go to NY Yankee games and absolutely despise being ‘asked’ to stand and remove my hat during the seventh inning stretch to listen to “God Bless America”. Always time for a bathroom break - just wish I could find the player and do my business on it. I also have an issue with the National Anthem before any sporting events, but not as much as being expected to give that other og-awful song the same respect. ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2014, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-us-dopers-what-do-you-see-as-ridiculous-american-propaganda/687876/70 "2014-05-08T00:01:29Z")
> [@Duckster](#): > > Will McAvoy, _The Newsroom_, [http://www.imdb.com/character/ch0308974/quotes](http://www.imdb.com/character/ch0308974/quotes) > > [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wTjMqda19wk](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wTjMqda19wk) This [rant](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T8UqdPKbpWM) by Bill Maher was suggested as I watched the above. I like Bill Maher. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2014, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-us-dopers-what-do-you-see-as-ridiculous-american-propaganda/687876/71 "2014-05-08T00:38:09Z")
> [@D\_Odds](#): > > I like to go to NY Yankee games and absolutely despise being ‘asked’ to stand and remove my hat during the seventh inning stretch to listen to “God Bless America”. Do they still [chain people in](http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/10/sports/baseball/10stadium.html) during the song? ---
**Author:** ![runningdude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e9c0ed/32.png) [@runningdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/runningdude)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2014, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-us-dopers-what-do-you-see-as-ridiculous-american-propaganda/687876/72 "2014-05-08T01:22:35Z")
nm ---
**Author:** ![pbbth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f9ae1b/32.png) [@pbbth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pbbth)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2014, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-us-dopers-what-do-you-see-as-ridiculous-american-propaganda/687876/73 "2014-05-08T01:23:08Z")
> [@PurpleClogs](#): > > In what state? I’ve not heard of a single jr or high school doing this. Texas and Louisiana definitely don’t. Maybe it depends where you are in Texas, because they sure as shit did it every day when I was in school. We even had a pledge for the Texas flag. “Honor the Texas flag. I pledge allegiance to thee, Texas, one and indivisible.” ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2014, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-us-dopers-what-do-you-see-as-ridiculous-american-propaganda/687876/74 "2014-05-08T01:39:48Z")
> [@Lord\_Feldon](#): > > Do they still [chain people in](http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/10/sports/baseball/10stadium.html) during the song? As if we needed another reason to despise George Steinbrenner. ---
**Author:** ![sinjin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ebca7d/32.png) [@sinjin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sinjin)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2014, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-us-dopers-what-do-you-see-as-ridiculous-american-propaganda/687876/75 "2014-05-08T01:42:32Z")
I thought the pledge was creepy when I was in grammar school in the 60’s. After I read Catch 22 in HS I knew it was creepy. BTW I went to a Catholic school and we did NOT say “One nation under GOD” we said “One nation indivisible”. After I read Catch 22 in HS I knew it was creepy. I just recently found out that boomer seniors in that Palin loving town of [“The Villages”](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Villages,_Florida) in central Fl. say the pledge before almost every recreational meeting. Wanna play bingo: say the pledge. I can’t tell you how creepy I feel about that. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2014, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-us-dopers-what-do-you-see-as-ridiculous-american-propaganda/687876/76 "2014-05-08T01:50:42Z")
> [@sinjin](#): > > I thought the pledge was creepy when I was in grammar school in the 60’s. After I read Catch 22 in HS I knew it was creepy. BTW I went to a Catholic school and we did NOT say “One nation under GOD” we said “One nation indivisible”. When did you go to school? The part about “under God” was not in the original pledge. It was added in 1954. And it was Catholics (specifically the Knights of Columbus) who had pushed for the change. eta: I just noticed you had said you went to school in the 60’s so I guess that answers my question. I don’t know why your school decided to pass on the change. ---
**Author:** ![sinjin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ebca7d/32.png) [@sinjin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sinjin)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2014, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-us-dopers-what-do-you-see-as-ridiculous-american-propaganda/687876/77 "2014-05-08T01:55:35Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > When did you go to school? The part about “under God” was not in the original pledge. It was added in 1954. And it was Catholics (specifically the Knights of Columbus) who had pushed for the change. > > eta: I just noticed you had said you went to school in the 60’s so I guess that answers my question. I don’t know why your school decided to pass on the change. South Chicago burbs. ---
**Author:** ![sinjin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ebca7d/32.png) [@sinjin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sinjin)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2014, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-us-dopers-what-do-you-see-as-ridiculous-american-propaganda/687876/78 "2014-05-08T02:08:40Z")
NETA: The church and school were pretty liberal, my nun teacher in 1968 quoted “Cool Hand Luke” on one her poster boards and also referred to S&G’s “I am a Rock” and “Sounds of Silence” in her lectures although she said nothing about “Mrs. Robinson” hee. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2014, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-us-dopers-what-do-you-see-as-ridiculous-american-propaganda/687876/79 "2014-05-08T02:26:13Z")
> [@Lord\_Feldon](#): > > Do they still [chain people in](http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/10/sports/baseball/10stadium.html) during the song? Not anymore. I was just there this weekend and forgot to get up and leave at 2 outs, so only started moving when Kate Smith’s warbling started. No one tried to stop me. I do remember the chains, more in the lower sections, where there are more ushers to help keep the riff-raff out. This past weekend, I was in the lower section. ---
**Author:** ![davida03801](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b5e925/32.png) [@davida03801](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davida03801)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2014, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-us-dopers-what-do-you-see-as-ridiculous-american-propaganda/687876/80 "2014-05-08T21:08:40Z")
The fact that anyone, from anywhere can come to this country illegally and you will get cheap housing, free food, free cell phone, free education for your kids. In many states you now get a college education that costs less than American citizens pay. You can buy a car drive around with no insurance, no license, not bother to register the vehicle. When you get in an accident or pulled over by the police just tell them you’re an illegal and off you go no worries and no bother. Tell me of another country that does this ??? Name one………… America, what a country. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-us-dopers-what-do-you-see-as-ridiculous-american-propaganda/687876.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-us-dopers-what-do-you-see-as-ridiculous-american-propaganda/687876.md?page=5)