# Non-USA Dopers, Tell Me About Abraham Lincoln **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 1, 2006, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-usa-dopers-tell-me-about-abraham-lincoln/354960 "2006-05-01T15:23:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 5\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![calm\_kiwi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9fc348/32.png) [@calm\_kiwi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/calm_kiwi)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2006, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-usa-dopers-tell-me-about-abraham-lincoln/354960/61 "2006-05-05T13:14:10Z")
> [@Paul in Saudi](#): > > Pardon me, although I am an American I am not (entirely) stupid (about everything). Nor am I especially Imperialistic. > > In any case, Lincoln was an exceptional speaker and writer. He established the United States as a major industrial power (or at least led the war that showed the US to be a major industrial power). He freed the last slaves held by a Western nation. At a time that other English-speaking nations were ruled by elites, he (and Jackson before him) showed the world that the common people could rule themselves. > > He showed compassion that was noteworthy in any man, and more so in a wartime leader. > > Savage? All I remember was he was the wartime PM that did not want his nation to fight the Japanese. He was a contemporary of Churchill, Curtin, and King. Undergraduate history was not wasted (completely) on me. But why should I be interested in why your country freed slaves when my country never had slaves? Why should I be interested in WHAT your exceptional speaker and writer had to say when it was about America? Is your country interested in Kate Sheppard? Is your country interested in the fact that while you were a huge democracy, MY country was the first in the world to give women the vote? Savage is most notable for being the first Labour party Prime Minister and the father of Social Welfare in NZ. Yes I can hear you snoring! Abe has the same affect on me. EVERYWHERE has someone far more important then Abe…except for America…and that is the way it should be. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2006, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-usa-dopers-tell-me-about-abraham-lincoln/354960/62 "2006-05-05T13:28:33Z")
The American territory of Oklahoma gave women the vote Way Back When. The United Provinces (in Europe) even further back. In any case, I fear I am derailing my own thread and I have to go speak Spanish at a Cinco de Mayo dinner. ---
**Author:** ![calm\_kiwi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9fc348/32.png) [@calm\_kiwi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/calm_kiwi)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2006, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-usa-dopers-tell-me-about-abraham-lincoln/354960/63 "2006-05-05T13:38:45Z")
> [@Paul in Saudi](#): > > The American territory of Oklahoma gave women the vote Way Back When. The United Provinces (in Europe) even further back. > > In any case, I fear I am derailing my own thread and I have to go speak Spanish at a Cinco de Mayo dinner. New Zealand was the first COUNTRY to give women the vote. There is no reason for you to know that and less reason for you to care…much like anything about Abe for non-USA Dopers. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2006, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-usa-dopers-tell-me-about-abraham-lincoln/354960/64 "2006-05-05T13:53:18Z")
Just to stick up for **Paul in Saudi** a little bit – “Lincoln? Never heard of him.” is a far better response than “Wasn’t he the president who warned the United States about the Jews”? I mean, come on. The first may be chalked up to a reasonable conclusion of non-notoriety. The latter is what? Some weird, twisted stuff. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2006, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-usa-dopers-tell-me-about-abraham-lincoln/354960/65 "2006-05-05T18:50:27Z")
I’m with **Paul in Saudi**. The OP did not demand that all foreigners learn everything possible about the 16th U.S. President, or imply that they should; it simply asked what they do know. I’m very interested in Lincoln and the American Civil War, and have read widely, written on and even given speeches (to Civil War roundtables and historical societies) about both. The posts so far show a greater breadth of knowledge about Lincoln than most Americans would have about other countries’ noted statesmen (with the possible exception of Winston Churchill - shall we test that with another thread?). In the noble cause of fighting ignorance, however, may I clarify: **Duffer** , the Gettysburg Address wasn’t written on an envelope or dashed off by Lincoln on the spur of the moment. He worked hard on his speeches, and on that one as much (if not more than) most. Garry Wills’s _Lincoln at Gettysburg_ is a great, Pulitzer-winning book on the subject, if you’re interested. **Sierra Indigo** , Lincoln’s head wound was fatal in and of itself; even modern medicine probably couldn’t have saved him. I think you may be thinking of President James A. Garfield, who probably wouldn’t have died after being shot in 1881 had his doctors been more competent. **Jjimm** , the Lincolns were attending a play, “Our American Cousin,” and not an opera at Ford’s Theater. **Kingpengvin** , the “better angels of our nature” quotation is from Lincoln’s First Inaugural, in 1861. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/non-usa-dopers-tell-me-about-abraham-lincoln/354960.md?page=3)