# None of this is going to matter
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/none-of-this-is-going-to-matter/833645
**Category:** Politics & Elections
**Created:** [May 8, 2019, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/none-of-this-is-going-to-matter/833645 "2019-05-08T01:05:07Z")
**Posts on this page:** 15
**Page:** 3
### Author:  [@LAZombie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LAZombie)
#### Post date: [May 10, 2019, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/none-of-this-is-going-to-matter/833645/41 "2019-05-10T15:33:12Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#):
>
> Bullshit. Every time conservatives do things that are immoral and criminal, they blame politics.
>
> Politics is not the problem. Conservatives are the problem.
>
> All we need to do to fix our political system is get the Republicans out of it.
How do you explain the problems in California where Conservatives are almost extinct? Shouldn’t there be utopias where where liberals dominate if what you wrote is true?
---
### Author:  [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)
#### Post date: [May 10, 2019, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/none-of-this-is-going-to-matter/833645/42 "2019-05-10T16:17:20Z")
> [@LAZombie](#):
>
> How do you explain the problems in California where Conservatives are almost extinct? Shouldn’t there be utopias where where liberals dominate if what you wrote is true?
What’s your basis?
Look at almost any list ranking the U.S. states, whether by income, or quality of health care and the “Blue” states will be at the top. Here are the top 12 states by GDP per capita: Massachusetts, New York, Connecticut, Alaska, Delaware, North Dakota, Wyoming, California, New Jersey, Washington. Maryland, Illinois. Except for three very tiny red states, these are blue states every one.
The bottom six on the same list are Mississippi, Idaho, West Virginia, Arkansas, South Carolina, Alabama. Shit-hole red states every one.
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### Author:  [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)
#### Post date: [May 10, 2019, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/none-of-this-is-going-to-matter/833645/43 "2019-05-10T17:20:19Z")
“Basis” suggests a rationally deduced outlook. **LAZombie** is just being intentionally disingenuous and inflammatory with no real interest in advancing a discussion.
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### Author:  [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)
#### Post date: [May 10, 2019, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/none-of-this-is-going-to-matter/833645/44 "2019-05-10T18:25:06Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#):
>
> Bullshit. Every time conservatives do things that are immoral and criminal, they blame politics.
>
> Politics is not the problem. **Conservatives** are the problem.
>
> All we need to do to fix our political system is get the Republicans out of it.
Conservatives? Where?
Funny, all I see are radicals, of a reactionary bent.
You’re right about getting rid of the Pubbies, though.
---
### Author:  [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)
#### Post date: [May 10, 2019, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/none-of-this-is-going-to-matter/833645/45 "2019-05-10T18:58:02Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#):
>
> Conservatives? Where?
>
> Funny, all I see are radicals, of a reactionary bent.
>
> You’re right about getting rid of the Pubbies, though.
I agree with you. And then I think, damn, now we’re just as bad as they are.
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### Author:  [@LAZombie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LAZombie)
#### Post date: [May 10, 2019, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/none-of-this-is-going-to-matter/833645/46 "2019-05-10T19:45:54Z")
> [@septimus](#):
>
> What’s your basis?
> Look at almost any list ranking the U.S. states, whether by income, or quality of health care and the “Blue” states will be at the top. Here are the top 12 states by GDP per capita: Massachusetts, New York, Connecticut, Alaska, Delaware, North Dakota, Wyoming, California, New Jersey, Washington. Maryland, Illinois. Except for three very tiny red states, these are blue states every one.
>
> The bottom six on the same list are Mississippi, Idaho, West Virginia, Arkansas, South Carolina, Alabama. Shit-hole red states every one.
You didn’t answer the question.
Why isn’t California a utopian society given its liberal policies? I didn’t ask whether its better than a Red state. If you are so confident in liberal ideology, why aren’t there more pronounced results?
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### Author:  [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)
#### Post date: [May 10, 2019, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/none-of-this-is-going-to-matter/833645/47 "2019-05-10T20:06:52Z")
> [@LAZombie](#):
>
> You didn’t answer the question.
>
> Why isn’t California a utopian society given its liberal policies? I didn’t ask whether its better than a Red state. If you are so confident in liberal ideology, why aren’t there more pronounced results?
No location with humans will ever be a utopia because we are imperfect and therefore whatever society we create will be imperfect.
Why don’t you tell us all about these horrible problems in California, and what the Republican plans are to fix them?
Also, can you give us an example of a Republican utopia? There are quite a few solid red places in this country where the Republicans have all of the power. Surely they’ve been able to create a conservatopia somewhere?
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### Author:  [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)
#### Post date: [May 10, 2019, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/none-of-this-is-going-to-matter/833645/48 "2019-05-10T21:36:24Z")
> [@Airbeck](#):
>
> No location with humans will ever be a utopia because we are imperfect and therefore whatever society we create will be imperfect.
>
> Why don’t you tell us all about these horrible problems in California, and what the Republican plans are to fix them?
>
> Also, can you give us an example of a Republican utopia? There are quite a few solid red places in this country where the Republicans have all of the power. Surely they’ve been able to create a conservatopia somewhere?
You realize that conservative principles of individual freedoms and free enterprise are what enables the so-called liberal states to prosper. Let them clamp down on freedom of expression, open their borders fully, and go full socialist and see how wealthy they remain.
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### Author:  [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)
#### Post date: [May 11, 2019, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/none-of-this-is-going-to-matter/833645/49 "2019-05-11T03:40:39Z")
> [@octopus](#):
>
> You realize that conservative principles of individual freedoms and free enterprise are what enables the so-called liberal states to prosper. Let them clamp down on freedom of expression, open their borders fully, and go full socialist and see how wealthy they remain.
😕 :smack: What in heaven’s name are you talking about?
Pro-tip for **octopus** : It’s possible to be a radical politician and still retain an understanding of shades of gray. Modern “socialist” thinkers understand the virtues of capitalism far better than red-neck racists ever will. The right-wing politicians in the shit-hole states you apparently admire, like Alabama, haven’t gone full-out Somalia have they? They even educate black kids at public expense (though probably only because of the threat of federal troops coming in). Why do you think AOC — is she your boogeytman? — wants to turn New York into a Stalinist- or Pol Pot-style dystopia?
Sheeesh. I guess we really are becoming an Idiotocracy.
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### Author:  [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)
#### Post date: [May 11, 2019, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/none-of-this-is-going-to-matter/833645/50 "2019-05-11T04:15:27Z")
> [@septimus](#):
>
> 😕 :smack: What in heaven’s name are you talking about?
>
> Pro-tip for **octopus** : It’s possible to be a radical politician and still retain an understanding of shades of gray. Modern “socialist” thinkers understand the virtues of capitalism far better than red-neck racists ever will. The right-wing politicians in the shit-hole states you apparently admire, like Alabama, haven’t gone full-out Somalia have they? They even educate black kids at public expense (though probably only because of the threat of federal troops coming in). Why do you think AOC — is she your boogeytman? — wants to turn New York into a Stalinist- or Pol Pot-style dystopia?
>
> Sheeesh. I guess we really are becoming an Idiotocracy.
Shit hole states? Idiotocracy? Boogeytman? Red-neck racists? Weird way to advocate your point of view as the party of reason. Btw, she’s a boogeytwoman.
Anyways, it’s to be seen if the the inhabitants of this so-called idiotocracy will vote for a Venezuelan style socialist or someone reasonable like Joe Biden. What do you think?
---
### Author:  [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)
#### Post date: [May 11, 2019, 6:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/none-of-this-is-going-to-matter/833645/51 "2019-05-11T06:13:01Z")
> [@octopus](#):
>
> Btw, she’s a boogeytwoman.
Your “contribution” is to call out my fat-fingered key-bump. Got it.
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### Author:  [@racepug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/racepug)
#### Post date: [May 12, 2019, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/none-of-this-is-going-to-matter/833645/52 "2019-05-12T04:08:47Z")
> [@octopus](#):
>
> You realize that conservative principles of individual freedoms and free enterprise are what enables the so-called liberal states to prosper. Let them clamp down on freedom of expression, open their borders fully, and go full socialist and see how wealthy they remain.
As I recall the State of Kansas went “all in” on Republicans there for a while (in the not-too-distant past) and at some point even THEY (meaning: their Republican politicians) had to concede that their right wing policies weren’t working. Now THAT is a FACT. What _you_ “contributed” earlier? I’m not so sure about that.
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### Author:  [@LAZombie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LAZombie)
#### Post date: [May 12, 2019, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/none-of-this-is-going-to-matter/833645/53 "2019-05-12T15:27:36Z")
> [@Airbeck](#):
>
> No location with humans will ever be a utopia because we are imperfect and therefore whatever society we create will be imperfect.
>
> Why don’t you tell us all about these horrible problems in California, and what the Republican plans are to fix them?
>
> Also, can you give us an example of a Republican utopia? There are quite a few solid red places in this country where the Republicans have all of the power. Surely they’ve been able to create a conservatopia somewhere?
Liberals are obsessed with being right but eschew solutions.
Pointing out someone else’s failure doesn’t make you right.
California is a big pyramid scheme that benefits from it geographical location. Immigrants, both poor and rich, flood in here creating unsustainable growth to feed the greedy overpaid government workers who in turn want more immigrants. Liberals point to GDP increase and advocate building millions more homes. I point to environmental destruction and then get shut down. It will collapse one day.
I hope the Latinos and Asians immigrants will recognize the situation for what it is and renounce these unethical pensions for what they are. A form of slavery for the next generation. But far too many of them are in on the scam as well as white Boomers.
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### Author:  [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)
#### Post date: [May 12, 2019, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/none-of-this-is-going-to-matter/833645/54 "2019-05-12T17:02:00Z")
> [@LAZombie](#):
>
> Liberals are obsessed with being right but eschew solutions.
>
> Pointing out someone else’s failure doesn’t make you right.
Well just what the fuck do you think it is that you’re doing here?
This is literally exactly what you’re doing.
Self-awareness is an important thing.
---
### Author:  [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)
#### Post date: [May 13, 2019, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/none-of-this-is-going-to-matter/833645/55 "2019-05-13T18:50:47Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#):
>
> Conservatives? Where?
>
> Funny, all I see are radicals, of a reactionary bent.
That’s the real, fundamental problem these days.
Today’s Republican party isn’t ‘conservative’. Conservative basically means that they want a good reason to change the status quo- they’re cautious about change and value traditions, and view continuity and stability as very important. And they have different views on what the fundamental role and job of governments are.
But they’re not trying to turn back the clock and/or change the status quo in reverse. Real conservatives would be as aghast at the idea of change in the opposite direction as any other kind of change.
What we have today is reactionaries. They explicitly want to turn back the clock and revert to the policies and social constructs of the past, and what makes it worse about today’s Republicans is that they aren’t even defining exactly when they’re trying to turn the clock back to, or on what policies. Their platform seems to be a bunch of anger-fueled scattershot attempts to get rid of what they perceive as causing the problems they are experiencing.
The most prominent evidence of the party’s shift toward reactionary ideals is that many of the things today’s party oppose are solutions to issues \*proposed by Republicans/conservatives \*in the recent past. We’d think Obamacare was designed by some sort of cabal of the Clintons, Jimmy Carter, Barack Obama, and the ghosts of John and Ted Kennedy. But nope, it was a program designed by Mitt Romney in his time as Governor of Massachusetts. Cap and trade was devised by Republicans, and even enacted by George HW Bush for sulfur dioxide. John McCain sponsored cap and trade legislation as well. Which makes sense, because it turns the solution from being one of legislative fiat into one to be solved by the free market- what could be more Conservative than that?
But today’s clowns are apparently so totally corrupt and in bed with the fossil fuel industry that they’re willing to try and gaslight the country about basic science, and decry policies _their own party_ originally proposed, in order to further their agenda.
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