# "None of us chose to be white. Not even Ed Sheeran." **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 28, 2019, 11:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/none-of-us-chose-to-be-white-not-even-ed-sheeran/840944 "2019-09-28T11:20:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2019, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/none-of-us-chose-to-be-white-not-even-ed-sheeran/840944/61 "2019-09-28T16:09:10Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I accept that this is the narrative of Maher (and Tucker Carlson), but I don’t accept that this more than a tiny and mostly insignificant thing that’s occurring. There’s much much more whining about this than actually good and decent people having their lives ruined. It’s a bit disingenuous to lump Maher in with Carlson on this. Seems to me, these two are polar opposites on virtually all political and social issues. They may both have a similar perspective on this, but it seems to me they arrive at it from entirely different directions and with entirely different agendas. ---
**Author:** ![Unreconstructed\_Man](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/76d3ee/32.png) [@Unreconstructed\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unreconstructed_Man)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2019, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/none-of-us-chose-to-be-white-not-even-ed-sheeran/840944/62 "2019-09-28T16:19:03Z")
> [@Sunny Daze](#): > > Guess what, in the real world if you’re an ass and say stupid things, sometimes that will bite you in the ass. The people in this thread who are out of touch with reality don’t include iiandyiiii. In the real world, if you were an ass when you were a teenager people tend to not care. However, in the virtual world, where people can be mean and stupid and judgemental and cowardly without consequence, dumb shit you said when you were a kid can fuck with your life as an adult. That’s not normal, it’s not how things work in the real world, and, most importantly, it’s not fair. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2019, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/none-of-us-chose-to-be-white-not-even-ed-sheeran/840944/63 "2019-09-28T16:20:03Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > It’s a bit disingenuous to lump Maher in with Carlson on this. Seems to me, these two are polar opposites on virtually all political and social issues. They may both have a similar perspective on this, but it seems to me they arrive at it from entirely different directions and with entirely different agendas. But Maher is helping and providing cover to Carlson and the Republicans, even if he doesn’t mean to. And thus he ought to be criticized for it, IMO. Not the end of the world, but neither is criticism. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2019, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/none-of-us-chose-to-be-white-not-even-ed-sheeran/840944/64 "2019-09-28T16:21:10Z")
> [@Unreconstructed\_Man](#): > > In the real world, if you were an ass when you were a teenager people tend to not care. However, in the virtual world, where people can be mean and stupid and judgemental and cowardly without consequence, dumb shit you said when you were a kid can fuck with your life as an adult. > > That’s not normal, it’s not how things work in the real world, and, most importantly, it’s not fair. That’s how things work in the real world right now. Best that people learn this and teach their children that the internet lasts forever, rather than whine and complain about something that they can’t change. ---
**Author:** ![Unreconstructed\_Man](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/76d3ee/32.png) [@Unreconstructed\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unreconstructed_Man)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2019, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/none-of-us-chose-to-be-white-not-even-ed-sheeran/840944/65 "2019-09-28T16:22:30Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > That’s how things work in the real world right now. Best that people learn this and teach their children that the internet lasts forever, rather than whine and complain about something that they can’t change. Do you think it’s fair? ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2019, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/none-of-us-chose-to-be-white-not-even-ed-sheeran/840944/66 "2019-09-28T16:25:57Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Who demanded an apology from Keaton? All I saw was some gentle mockery. > > As for Murray, I don’t know about you, but I would certainly want to apologize for anything hateful that I said, even if it was in the past. Good for Murray for recognizing this and apologizing. It reflects well on him. > > Ha! Keaton and Murray are “shredded”? That’s funny, they seem to be doing fine too me. Did they reach out to you and Maher to defend them, or did y’all just decide on your own to “white knight” them? > > As for you, who’s asked you to apologize? Do you suddenly feel attacked? If so, maybe the problem is inside you. All I’ve done is disagreed with you, maybe with some gentle mockery as well. \*\*\*Disagreeing isn’t going to hurt you. Criticism isn’t going to hurt you. Even a little gentle mockery isn’t going to hurt you. \*\*\*Maybe you could even learn something! You watched Maher for years and think he’s a funny comedian, but in the last few months or so he is an unwatchable indefensible tool of authoritarian racism? Is it at all possible you yourself have become sensetive about stuff that really is not that remarkable, because of, say, the internet and social media, or even the current climate, and that calls of “whiny” and “snowflake” do not land well coming from this place? \*\*\*Disagreeing isn’t going to hurt you. Criticism isn’t going to hurt you. Even a little gentle mockery isn’t going to hurt you. \*\*\* ---
**Author:** ![Wolf333](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolf333/32/3460_2.png) [@Wolf333](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wolf333)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2019, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/none-of-us-chose-to-be-white-not-even-ed-sheeran/840944/67 "2019-09-28T16:26:42Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I accept that this is the narrative of Maher (and Tucker Carlson), but I don’t accept that this more than a tiny and mostly insignificant thing that’s occurring. There’s much much more whining about this than actually good and decent people having their lives ruined. This just popped up on my YouTube recommendations. [Cancel Culture Isn’t A Thing, You Snowflakes - Some More News](https://youtu.be/szybEhqUmVI) ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2019, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/none-of-us-chose-to-be-white-not-even-ed-sheeran/840944/68 "2019-09-28T16:31:46Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > You watched Maher for years and think he’s a funny comedian, but in the last few months or so he is an unwatchable indefensible tool of authoritarian racism? No, that last part is not remotely what I said. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2019, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/none-of-us-chose-to-be-white-not-even-ed-sheeran/840944/69 "2019-09-28T16:33:04Z")
> [@Unreconstructed\_Man](#): > > Do you think it’s fair? Do I think what’s fair? Are you talking about a single instance, or some larger phenomenon? ---
**Author:** ![Sunny\_Daze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunny_daze/32/438_2.png) [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2019, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/none-of-us-chose-to-be-white-not-even-ed-sheeran/840944/70 "2019-09-28T16:52:57Z")
Do I think what happened to that kid is fair? Yes. Let’s examine. As a stunt, he held up a sign asking for beer money. Thanks to social media, he got a huge number of eyes on his request and a lot of money sent to his Venmo. He chose to take that money and give it to charity (he got corporate matching, making it even better). Also, thanks to social media, his earlier posting history was examined and he said some unfortunate things. He lost his free beer. Social Media helped a kid playing a joke turn that into something positive. It also spanked him for being a dumb shit. Overall, he’s going to come out just fine. He handled he entire situation really well, and presumably has learned a lot. I would certainly consider him for a future hire, were he eligible. Furthermore, social media gave him the chance to demonstrate now that he has changed and matured. So, yes, what happened to that kid is fair. If you think social judgements never occurred before the internet, you’re wrong. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2019, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/none-of-us-chose-to-be-white-not-even-ed-sheeran/840944/71 "2019-09-28T16:55:55Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I like the discussions on Maher’s show, and I was a regular watcher of his shows since the 90s until just the last few months. I stopped watching because I found Maher so obnoxious that I didn’t enjoy it any more, even if I still usually liked the discussion parts. > > As for Arquette and her dumb statement, if a handful of other random people have said similarly silly things, that doesn’t mean anything other than sometimes people say silly things in the internet. You were a regular watcher for at least 20 years, and stopped in the last months. Because Maher was too “obnoxious” for this comedy/current affairs show. Got it. You connected Tucker Carlson and Maher though as doing something similar. I don’t know what the difference was between my prior characterization and that, but it has been corrected. I still think you have lost your bearings because of social media and the internet. I’m no exception. We all have to watch out for this. Everybody’s a little pasha ruling a perfect little world now. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2019, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/none-of-us-chose-to-be-white-not-even-ed-sheeran/840944/72 "2019-09-28T16:59:55Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > You were a regular watcher for at least 20 years, and stopped in the last months. Because Maher was too “obnoxious” for this comedy/current affairs show. Got it. No, this isn’t why I stopped (if I’m understanding this wording of yours, which is still a bit strange to me). I stopped because I found him and his views (some of them, anyway) obnoxious enough that it was taking away from my enjoyment of the show. If suddenly I lost a bunch of my other shows, maybe I’d start watching again. But I don’t have unlimited time to watch TV, and I was noticing that his show was piling up, unwatched, in my DVR as I chose other shows to watch, so I stopped recording it. Why is this a big deal? I don’t criticize others for enjoying it. If others enjoy Bill Maher and his show, that’s fine with me. I still think he’s a funny comedian, and I still think the discussion parts are good (at least from the last episodes I watched), so I understand why some others still watch him. But I stopped watching, and that’s okay. EDIT: I don’t think Maher is “an unwatchable indefensible tool of authoritarian racism”, or anything close to that. I’ve criticized him a lot, but criticism doesn’t necessarily equal that kind of hyperbolic nonsense. ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2019, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/none-of-us-chose-to-be-white-not-even-ed-sheeran/840944/73 "2019-09-28T17:04:36Z")
> [@Unreconstructed\_Man](#): > > “He’ll be fine” isn’t the right thing to say when you (or the thing you’re brushing under the carpet) have hurt someone. > > You’ve also missed the point of the example. Busch’s actions are irrelevant. They did what they had to do. The _point_ is they wouldn’t have had to do _anything_ if some dickhead hadn’t published his garbage childhood tweets for internet points. That behaviour is toxic and, as the example showed, hurtful. He _clearly_ isn’t the same person anymore. The tweets _obviously_ don’t reflect on his character. So there was no reason to publish them. But they did. Now, he’s no longer the hero who raised a million dollars for a children’s hospital. He’s just another [Milkshake Duck](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milkshake_Duck) > > That’s not fair. You _know_ it’s not fair, and that’s why you didn’t tackle the example, and that’s why you were being dishonest. > > But it’s okay. Nobody’s perfect. Just apologise and we can move on. Care to enjoy a wee bit of schadenfreude? [Reporter who outed racist tweets by viral fundraiser leaves Des Moines Register after his own offensive posts surface.](https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2019/09/27/reporter-who-outed-racist-tweets-by-viral-fundraiser-leaves-des-moines-register-after-his-own-offensive-posts-surface/) ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2019, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/none-of-us-chose-to-be-white-not-even-ed-sheeran/840944/74 "2019-09-28T17:13:39Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > No, this isn’t why I stopped (if I’m understanding this wording of yours, which is still a bit strange to me). I stopped because I found him and his views (some of them, anyway) obnoxious enough that it was taking away from my enjoyment of the show. If suddenly I lost a bunch of my other shows, maybe I’d start watching again. But I don’t have unlimited time to watch TV, and I was noticing that his show was piling up, unwatched, in my DVR as I chose other shows to watch, so I stopped recording it. > > Why is this a big deal? I don’t criticize others for enjoying it. If others enjoy Bill Maher and his show, that’s fine with me. I still think he’s a funny comedian, and I still think the discussion parts are good (at least from the last episodes I watched), so I understand why some others still watch him. But I stopped watching, and that’s okay. > > EDIT: I don’t think Maher is “an unwatchable indefensible tool of authoritarian racism”, or anything close to that. I’ve criticized him a lot, but criticism doesn’t necessarily equal that kind of hyperbolic nonsense. Can we be real? Your first sentence is in perfect agreement with my statement. Did you intend to say “NO!..(yes)”? You are soft-selling your dislike of him in this post. But you are calling him a friend and fellow of racists like Carlson and posters here have to answer the real things you are saying. And you are pretty intolerant of the kind of needling that has been the staple of comedy for, I don’t know, centuries? If that’s for partisan reasons there is a certain amount of hypocrisy in this. I don’t think that’s good for liberalism or the country. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2019, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/none-of-us-chose-to-be-white-not-even-ed-sheeran/840944/75 "2019-09-28T17:13:54Z")
> [@jz78817](#): > > Are you fucking serious? “So what?” guy raises a million+ for a charity, and that’s all canceled out because of something he said when he was 16. > > you’re fucking unhinged. I just noticed this after-post edit, and I’ll just recommend backing off and taking a break. We’re just talking here. That guy’s accomplishments aren’t “canceled”, his deal with a big company was. Such are the consequences, sometimes, from saying dumb things. It’s not the end of the world for him – dumb things he said in the past bit him in the butt. Things like that happen sometimes. How he deals with it going forward will show if he’s learned from his mistakes. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2019, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/none-of-us-chose-to-be-white-not-even-ed-sheeran/840944/76 "2019-09-28T17:16:39Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > Can we be real? Your first sentence is in perfect agreement with my statement. Did you intend to say “NO!..(yes)”? Whatever; I read it differently. The “for a comedy/current affairs show” or whatever threw me off, as I couldn’t understand what that had to do with what I said. > [@](#): > > You are soft-selling your dislike of him in this post. But you are calling him a friend and fellow of racists like Carlson and posters here have to answer the real things you are saying. I said he’s helping them, inadvertently, on this specific issue. That’s different than being “a friend and fellow of racists”. > [@](#): > > And you are pretty intolerant of the kind of needling that has been the staple of comedy for, I don’t know, centuries? If that’s for partisan reasons there is a certain amount of hypocrisy in this. What kind of “needling” am I intolerant of? I’m not sure what you’re saying here. ---
**Author:** ![Unreconstructed\_Man](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/76d3ee/32.png) [@Unreconstructed\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unreconstructed_Man)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2019, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/none-of-us-chose-to-be-white-not-even-ed-sheeran/840944/77 "2019-09-28T17:24:30Z")
> [@Sunny\_Daze](#): > > Do I think what happened to that kid is fair? Yes. Let’s examine. As a stunt, he held up a sign asking for beer money. Thanks to social media, he got a huge number of eyes on his request and a lot of money sent to his Venmo. He chose to take that money and give it to charity (he got corporate matching, making it even better). Also, thanks to social media, his earlier posting history was examined and he said some unfortunate things. He lost his free beer. > > Social Media helped a kid playing a joke turn that into something positive. It also spanked him for being a dumb shit. Overall, he’s going to come out just fine. He handled he entire situation really well, and presumably has learned a lot. I would certainly consider him for a future hire, were he eligible. Furthermore, social media gave him the chance to demonstrate now that he has changed and matured. > > So, yes, what happened to that kid is fair. > > If you think social judgements never occurred before the internet, you’re wrong. Social judgements never happened _this way_ before the internet and you damn well know it. I note that the one and only salient piece of information you left out of your otherwise detailed summary was that the _man_ (he’s not a “kid” today. He’s 24) who raised a million dollars for charity was a _kid_ when he made the offensive tweets _eight years ago_. It’s not fair for people to bring up dumb shit you did as a kid when you’re an adult. We accept this in every other area of life. That’s one reason why juvenile records are sealed, so people don’t judge you for stupid shit you did when you were too young and dumb to know better. It’s _double_ unfair when people bring up the dumb shit you did as a kid in the context of things _completely unrelated_ to the aforementioned dumb shit. Also, as I said to **iiandyiiii** your “Meh, he’ll get over it” attitude is troubling, callous, and absolutely 100% the wrong thing to say to someone you’ve hurt (or someone hurt by something you’re trying to downplay - in this case, social media shaming). Finally, while it’s good that social media helped this guy raise money, I’m not complaining about social media _per se_. I’m complaining about how some people use social media to dredge up childhood screw ups to fuck with people years later. _That_ isn’t fair at all. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2019, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/none-of-us-chose-to-be-white-not-even-ed-sheeran/840944/78 "2019-09-28T17:35:51Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Whatever; I read it differently. The “for a comedy/current affairs show” or whatever threw me off, as I couldn’t understand what that had to do with what I said. > > I said he’s helping them, inadvertently, on this specific issue. That’s different than being “a friend and fellow of racists”. > > What kind of “needling” am I intolerant of? I’m not sure what you’re saying here. You got thrown off by the phrase “comedy/current affairs”? You are intolerant of needling liberals on race for one very specific thing. You are posting that it’s dangerous to democracy. OTOH you are willing to continue if you run out of other things to see? You’re throwing me off. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2019, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/none-of-us-chose-to-be-white-not-even-ed-sheeran/840944/79 "2019-09-28T17:38:10Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > You got thrown off by the phrase “comedy/current affairs”? Yes. My criticism of Maher has nothing to do with what type of show he does. > [@](#): > > You are intolerant of needling liberals on race for one very specific thing. You are posting that it’s dangerous to democracy. I don’t understand what you’re trying to say here. I’ll invite you to select very specific quotes of mine that you disagree with, since I don’t know what this is referring to. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2019, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/none-of-us-chose-to-be-white-not-even-ed-sheeran/840944/80 "2019-09-28T17:43:55Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > Can we be real? Your first sentence is in perfect agreement with my statement. Did you intend to say “NO!..(yes)”? > > You are soft-selling your dislike of him in this post. But you are calling him a friend and fellow of racists like Carlson and posters here have to answer the real things you are saying. And you are pretty intolerant of the kind of needling that has been the staple of comedy for, I don’t know, centuries? If that’s for partisan reasons there is a certain amount of hypocrisy in this. I don’t think that’s good for liberalism or the country. Bravo. I don’t think I’ve ever seen such a blatant strawman. I mean, you flat out accuse him of really meaning something else. You’re admitting you’re arguing with something he didn’t say. Someday I hope I’ll be “enlightened” enough to understand the purpose of these posts. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/none-of-us-chose-to-be-white-not-even-ed-sheeran/840944.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/none-of-us-chose-to-be-white-not-even-ed-sheeran/840944.md?page=5)