# "None of us chose to be white. Not even Ed Sheeran." **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 28, 2019, 11:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/none-of-us-chose-to-be-white-not-even-ed-sheeran/840944 "2019-09-28T11:20:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![slumtrimpet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@slumtrimpet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slumtrimpet)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2019, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/none-of-us-chose-to-be-white-not-even-ed-sheeran/840944/121 "2019-09-29T12:56:14Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > … > > But don’t worry about me — _Worry about the U.S.A.!_ The GOP Machine of Hatred, Greed and Evil is favored to retain the Senate, and has a 50-50 chance of keeping the White House. \*\* I strongly worry that some middle-aged swing voters will be turned off by some modern progressive rhetoric.\*\* (bolding mine) We all worry about something. I, on the other hand, worry that the young progressive potential voters will be turned off by the constant pandering to those supposed middle-aged swing voters and say, “Fuck it. Same shit, different day” and not vote. Again. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2019, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/none-of-us-chose-to-be-white-not-even-ed-sheeran/840944/122 "2019-09-29T12:57:36Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > But Maher is helping and providing cover to Carlson and the Republicans, even if he doesn’t mean to. And thus he ought to be criticized for it, IMO. Not the end of the world, but neither is criticism. To the extent this may be the case, it’s an unintended consequence on his part. Sometimes it’s okay to agree in principal on an issue with someone you otherwise completely disagree with. Also, motives and context matters. Not to go off on tangents, but as an atheist I would have to agree with a deist about the possibility of existence of god. Now, I’d arrive at that conclusion from an entirely different direction and out understanding of scale of “possibility of existence” is dramatically different. But at the end of the day, is my admission “providing cover” for the deists/theists? I submit that it is far from it. Furthermore, I would be arguing in a dishonest, even disingenuous, fashion if I refused to admit that at the ‘risk’ of strengthening their argument. Integrity matters. I think Maher is exaggerating what he describes as a ‘wokeness’ problem with liberals. But he’s not completely wrong as it is an extant phenomenon on social media. Also, it’s his pet peeve and he has a forum in which to express it. It’s fine to criticize him for it. Can’t argue with you there. But, as I’ve explained, it weakens your argument to say that it’s because you don’t want to lend cover to the worst of right-wing assholes like Carlson. People, including progressives, need to learn (and be trusted) to think for themselves, and to distinguish nuanced/contextual arguments without drawing the bright lines of ‘with us or against us’, like you appear to be doing in this case. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2019, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/none-of-us-chose-to-be-white-not-even-ed-sheeran/840944/123 "2019-09-29T17:01:39Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > To the extent this may be the case, it’s an unintended consequence on his part. Sometimes it’s okay to agree in principal on an issue with someone you otherwise completely disagree with. Also, motives and context matters. > > Not to go off on tangents, but as an atheist I would have to agree with a deist about the possibility of existence of god. Now, I’d arrive at that conclusion from an entirely different direction and out understanding of scale of “possibility of existence” is dramatically different. But at the end of the day, is my admission “providing cover” for the deists/theists? I submit that it is far from it. Furthermore, I would be arguing in a dishonest, even disingenuous, fashion if I refused to admit that at the ‘risk’ of strengthening their argument. Integrity matters. > > I think Maher is exaggerating what he describes as a ‘wokeness’ problem with liberals. But he’s not completely wrong as it is an extant phenomenon on social media. Also, it’s his pet peeve and he has a forum in which to express it. It’s fine to criticize him for it. Can’t argue with you there. But, as I’ve explained, it weakens your argument to say that it’s because you don’t want to lend cover to the worst of right-wing assholes like Carlson. People, including progressives, need to learn (and be trusted) to think for themselves, and to distinguish nuanced/contextual arguments without drawing the bright lines of ‘with us or against us’, like you appear to be doing in this case. Okay. I criticize him because I think he’s mostly wrong on this issue, but also because his mostly wrongness in this case is lending cover to the worst of the worst (and wrongest of the wrong) in politics. ---
**Author:** ![Thing\_Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@Thing\_Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing_Fish)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2019, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/none-of-us-chose-to-be-white-not-even-ed-sheeran/840944/124 "2019-09-29T18:54:34Z")
So to recap: kid is called out in newspaper article for eight year old racist tweets, some people on the internet criticize him for this. Newspaper which broke story received terrorist threats of violence against their staff, requiring them to hire extra security. And in the eyes of the SDMB conservatives, the villain here is…the newspaper! Racists threatening arson and murder apparently isn’t a problem for these folks, but liberals expressing opinions on the internet is the end of the fucking world. Got it. ---
**Author:** ![Unreconstructed\_Man](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/76d3ee/32.png) [@Unreconstructed\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unreconstructed_Man)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2019, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/none-of-us-chose-to-be-white-not-even-ed-sheeran/840944/125 "2019-09-29T19:42:37Z")
> [@Thing\_Fish](#): > > So to recap: kid is called out in newspaper article for eight year old racist tweets, some people on the internet criticize him for this. \*\*Newspaper which broke story received terrorist threats of violence against their staff, requiring them to hire extra security. And in the eyes of the SDMB conservatives, the villain here is…the newspaper! > > Racists threatening arson and murder apparently isn’t a problem for these folks, but liberals expressing opinions on the internet is the end of the fucking world. Got it.\*\* No-one’s actually commented on that bolded part one way or the other. So why did you say it? For my part, I didn’t comment on it because I didn’t know about it until literally just now. Now that I do, I have no hesitation in saying that terrorist threats are bad and people shouldn’t do them. I’ll also note that no SDMB conservatives have said that terrorist threats are a good response to overzealous twitter policing, but several SDMB _liberals_ have defended overzealous twitter policing, saying it’s no big deal. So, to recap: SDMB liberals think it’s cool to fuck with people over dumb tweets they made when they were a kid. SDMB conservatives don’t. That’s as far as the conversation has gone. Anything beyond that is pure projection on your part, and your post is just a massive straw man. No big deal. We all make mistakes. Just apologise and we can move on. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2019, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/none-of-us-chose-to-be-white-not-even-ed-sheeran/840944/126 "2019-09-29T20:28:02Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > :rolleyes: > Oh riiiight, everyone else here goes so easy on me and you are the only one not lobbing softballs in my direction? Is this really what you have convinced yourself? Jesus. > > Take someone like Dibble. He comes at me a lot harder than you do, frankly, but I don’t find him as frustrating because he actually stands behind what he says. He owns it. He doesn’t try to have it both ways (or every which way) like you do. Hey, don’t blame me for your shitty arguing skills and your admissions of dishonesty. That stuff’s on you. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2019, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/none-of-us-chose-to-be-white-not-even-ed-sheeran/840944/127 "2019-09-29T20:29:02Z")
> [@Unreconstructed\_Man](#): > > So, to recap: SDMB liberals think it’s cool to fuck with people over dumb tweets they made when they were a kid. SDMB conservatives don’t. That’s as far as the conversation has gone. Anything beyond that is pure projection on your part, and your post is just a massive straw man. Always amusing to see a massive straw man in the same paragraph as complaints about straw men. ---
**Author:** ![Unreconstructed\_Man](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/76d3ee/32.png) [@Unreconstructed\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unreconstructed_Man)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2019, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/none-of-us-chose-to-be-white-not-even-ed-sheeran/840944/128 "2019-09-29T20:37:09Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Always amusing to see a massive straw man in the same paragraph as complaints about straw men. I figured the “So to recap” was kind of a clue that I did that on purpose 😉 ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2019, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/none-of-us-chose-to-be-white-not-even-ed-sheeran/840944/129 "2019-09-29T20:38:14Z")
> [@Unreconstructed\_Man](#): > > I figured the “So to recap” was kind of a clue that I did that on purpose 😉 Ahh, carry on then with your straw man arguments. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2019, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/none-of-us-chose-to-be-white-not-even-ed-sheeran/840944/130 "2019-09-30T03:36:32Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > […] a poll finding that white liberals were the only group that preferred other races/ethnicities to their own. That’s really cringey and awkward. 😕 Not seeing what you think is so “cringey” or “awkward” about it. A race/ethnicity isn’t like, say, a high school sports team where you’re under a social obligation to prefer your own team to all others. If somebody instead thinks of their race/ethnicity as more like, say, a type of cuisine that doesn’t happen to be their personal favorite—as in, _“I like our own culinary traditions okay but I’d rather have more Japanese restaurants around”_—I don’t see why you should “cringe” about their preference. And especially if they feel that there are currently a lot of shitty cooks in their own culinary tradition making the food taste terrible, then their preference for a different culinary tradition is not at all unreasonable. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2019, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/none-of-us-chose-to-be-white-not-even-ed-sheeran/840944/131 "2019-09-30T05:35:04Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > And especially if they feel that there are currently a lot of shitty cooks in their own culinary tradition making the food taste terrible, then their preference for a different culinary tradition is not at all unreasonable. “Guy Fieri turned me into a liberal race-traitor!” ---
**Author:** ![RioRico](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f04885/32.png) [@RioRico](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RioRico)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2019, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/none-of-us-chose-to-be-white-not-even-ed-sheeran/840944/132 "2019-09-30T05:40:50Z")
Maher seemed funny when I last watched him before the Y2K bug but I’ve mostly avoided TV since then. From what I read, woo-woos will say he is wrong, that deep-down he chose his ethnicity from the ova and sperm available. Yes, the Force was with him. But the Force seems bent on fucking-over arbitrary groups. AFAIK I did not choose to be a Cherokee-Venusian hybrid but we’re the best anyway. That’s a joke. What’s NOT a joke is the prospect of biomedical advances letting a human revise their own gender, ethnicity, form, and even species, with body and brain rebuilds. Rich folks get that first. Will the poor (all sorts) get leftovers? ---
**Author:** ![Sunny\_Daze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunny_daze/32/438_2.png) [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2019, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/none-of-us-chose-to-be-white-not-even-ed-sheeran/840944/133 "2019-09-30T14:20:41Z")
Huh. Definitely points I had not considered. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2019, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/none-of-us-chose-to-be-white-not-even-ed-sheeran/840944/134 "2019-09-30T15:05:30Z")
Don’t mind me - I just came in to complain about Ed Sheeran. I mean, seriously - fuck that guy for his…muppet face and his… mildly catchy songs… ---
**Author:** ![Unreconstructed\_Man](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/76d3ee/32.png) [@Unreconstructed\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unreconstructed_Man)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2019, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/none-of-us-chose-to-be-white-not-even-ed-sheeran/840944/135 "2019-09-30T16:51:01Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > Don’t mind me - I just came in to complain about Ed Sheeran. > > I mean, seriously - fuck that guy for his…muppet face and his… mildly catchy songs… My idea of hell is being stuck in a room with Galway Girl on repeat forever. ---
**Author:** ![RioRico](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f04885/32.png) [@RioRico](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RioRico)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2019, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/none-of-us-chose-to-be-white-not-even-ed-sheeran/840944/136 "2019-09-30T22:39:01Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > Don’t mind me - I just came in to complain about Ed Sheeran. > > I mean, seriously - fuck that guy for his…muppet face and his… mildly catchy songs… Did anyone force you to consume that? I’ve pretty much disconnected from pop media. No TV, no commercial radio, no social media, no streaming, almost only text webpages. I have seen this guy’s name, and maybe thumbnail images. I do not think I have EVER heard or seen him sing, play, speak, fart, anything, so I care not. Not caring. That’s a good feeling. I wish there was more I needn’t care about. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2019, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/none-of-us-chose-to-be-white-not-even-ed-sheeran/840944/137 "2019-09-30T22:47:01Z")
> [@RioRico](#): > > Did anyone force you to consume that? > > I’ve pretty much disconnected from pop media. No TV, no commercial radio, no social media, no streaming, almost only text webpages. I have seen this guy’s name, and maybe thumbnail images. I do not think I have EVER heard or seen him sing, play, speak, fart, anything, so I care not. > > Not caring. That’s a good feeling. I wish there was more I needn’t care about. I’m so happy that I can say, “Ed Sheeran who?” I gather from context he’s a singer or something. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2019, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/none-of-us-chose-to-be-white-not-even-ed-sheeran/840944/138 "2019-09-30T23:16:53Z")
Clearly you two have successfully defended your lawns from all incursions. ---
**Author:** ![Unreconstructed\_Man](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/76d3ee/32.png) [@Unreconstructed\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unreconstructed_Man)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2019, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/none-of-us-chose-to-be-white-not-even-ed-sheeran/840944/139 "2019-10-01T00:35:59Z")
A couple of years back I had a night shift job. As you can imagine, it got pretty quiet in the small hours so to help pass the time we’d have the radio on. There was only one station we could get with any real clarity and, I swear, every fourth song was Ed Bloody Sheeran. Every half hour, regular as clockwork, we’d be visited by that simpering, antiseptic, _boring_ little twerp. I wouldn’t be surprised if he _did_ choose to be white. Guy’s worse than Hitler. ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2019, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/none-of-us-chose-to-be-white-not-even-ed-sheeran/840944/140 "2019-10-01T02:37:45Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > Don’t mind me - I just came in to complain about Ed Sheeran. > > I mean, seriously - fuck that guy for his…muppet face and his… mildly catchy songs… The autotune is the bad part. At least T Pain owned it (and is actually a very talented singer without it). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/none-of-us-chose-to-be-white-not-even-ed-sheeran/840944.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/none-of-us-chose-to-be-white-not-even-ed-sheeran/840944.md?page=8)