# Noonan is in rare form (commenting on WI and other things) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 8, 2012, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/noonan-is-in-rare-form-commenting-on-wi-and-other-things/624462 "2012-06-08T03:11:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2012, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/noonan-is-in-rare-form-commenting-on-wi-and-other-things/624462/41 "2012-06-10T02:49:41Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Are either of those “collective”? No, on the whole they aren’t. I’d argue they are: Loveless and/or unstable marriages and forcing people to keep children they don’t want all seem to contribute to the production of criminals. ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2012, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/noonan-is-in-rare-form-commenting-on-wi-and-other-things/624462/42 "2012-06-10T04:20:13Z")
> [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](#): > > I saw this bird today. It was looking at me. This may just turn out to be the most helpful comment in this thread. Ralph Wiggum: > [@](#): > > I saw the Principal and my teacher in the closet, and they were making babies… > and one of the babies… looked at me. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2012, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/noonan-is-in-rare-form-commenting-on-wi-and-other-things/624462/43 "2012-06-10T18:57:51Z")
The OP’s link doesn’t work. I suspect I may not be missing a great deal. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2012, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/noonan-is-in-rare-form-commenting-on-wi-and-other-things/624462/44 "2012-06-10T20:35:51Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > The OP’s link doesn’t work. I suspect I may not be missing a great deal. That’s because the moderator has changed my post and added a period at the end of the URL, apparently. [http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303753904577452793597495290](http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303753904577452793597495290) ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2012, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/noonan-is-in-rare-form-commenting-on-wi-and-other-things/624462/45 "2012-06-10T21:07:53Z")
> [@Klaatu](#): > > I am not trying to start shit here, or maybe I am, but what is wrong with a state wanting public sector union employees to contribute a few percent of their salaries to pensions and healthcare? [Some Florida police officers are finding it objectionable.](http://blogs.browardpalmbeach.com/pulp/2011/06/police_benevolent_association_leave_the_party_republicans.php) > [@](#): > > Next month the Broward County Police Benevolent Association is holding a “Party to Leave the Party” – an event coordinated with the Supervisor of Elections where police officers and the general public can switch their voter registrations from Republican to Democratic or Independent. > > The reason for the switch? The association, which serves as the bargaining union for the county’s law enforcement officers, is unhappy with the leadership of Governor Rick Scott and the results of the past legislative session, including changes to the Florida Retirement System that will require the workers to pay more of their own wages into retirement savings. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2012, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/noonan-is-in-rare-form-commenting-on-wi-and-other-things/624462/46 "2012-06-10T21:08:55Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > That’s because the moderator has changed my post and added a period at the end of the URL, apparently. > > [http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303753904577452793597495290](http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303753904577452793597495290) You still need to subscribe to read more than the first paragraph. Why don’t you summarize it? ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2012, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/noonan-is-in-rare-form-commenting-on-wi-and-other-things/624462/47 "2012-06-10T22:11:46Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Nope. You have it completely ass-backwards, as per usual. > > Conservatives like humans so much that we are willing to let them make their own decisions instead of thinking that everything will be OK if other people just did exactly what we think is best for them. Well stated. In fact, I would go so far as to add the heretical thought that not only would we like for them to make their own decisions, we’d like for them to take responsibility for the outcomes of those decisions. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2012, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/noonan-is-in-rare-form-commenting-on-wi-and-other-things/624462/48 "2012-06-10T22:13:39Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > Well stated. In fact, I would go so far as to add the heretical thought that not only would we like for them to make their own decisions, we’d like for them to take responsibility for the outcomes of those decisions. If only the outcome of your decision to be a delusional nutjob were more severe. If only. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2012, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/noonan-is-in-rare-form-commenting-on-wi-and-other-things/624462/49 "2012-06-11T01:29:38Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > In fact, I would go so far as to add the heretical thought that not only would we like for them to make their own decisions, we’d like for them to take responsibility for the outcomes of those decisions. Translation: Conservatives want the people they prey upon to be on their own, helpless, and for the government to ignore their cries of help as you and your fellow conservatives oppress, exploit, assault or kill them. But if they fight back, _then_ you want the government to stomp on them for you. ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2012, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/noonan-is-in-rare-form-commenting-on-wi-and-other-things/624462/50 "2012-06-11T01:59:32Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > As opposed to the utter contempt for humanity which characterizes conservatives. DT, you’re a fool. Conservatives want people to be able to make their own decisions, but they also want those people to be responsible for the results of those divisions. You and every other lib are apparently incapable of understanding that. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2012, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/noonan-is-in-rare-form-commenting-on-wi-and-other-things/624462/51 "2012-06-11T02:17:53Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > Conservatives want people to be able to make their own decisions, but they also want those people to be responsible for the results of those divisions. You and every other lib are apparently incapable of understanding that. I understand it fine; I simply don’t believe it. Conservatives have always been the enemy of freedom, and “personal responsibility” is just code for making sure that people who are oppressed or exploited have no recourse. Conservatism throughout all of history has always been evil, a force of greed and tyranny and cruelty. It has always fought against good and to defend evil; whether it’s opposition to letting women vote or fighting to keep blacks slaves, it has always stood for tyranny and evil. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2012, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/noonan-is-in-rare-form-commenting-on-wi-and-other-things/624462/52 "2012-06-11T02:25:55Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > Conservatives want people to be able to make their own decisions, but they also want those people to be responsible for the results of those divisions. I’d be more receptive to that if conservatives didn’t also seek to deny people numerous important options for dealing with those results. ---
**Author:** ![Frostillicus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Frostillicus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frostillicus)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2012, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/noonan-is-in-rare-form-commenting-on-wi-and-other-things/624462/53 "2012-06-11T17:05:39Z")
> [@Klaatu](#): > > I am not trying to start shit here, or maybe I am, but what is wrong with a state wanting public sector union employees to contribute a few percent of their salaries to pensions and healthcare? > > I have plenty of private sector friends, as do many of you, whose companies have made them do the same. Uh, I contribure 9% of my salary to my pension. Good enough for you? ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2012, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/noonan-is-in-rare-form-commenting-on-wi-and-other-things/624462/54 "2012-06-11T18:14:10Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > DT, you’re a fool. > > Conservatives want people to be able to make their own decisions, but they also want those people to be responsible for the results of those divisions. You and every other lib are apparently incapable of understanding that. Seriously, I try not to be as crazy as DT, but it is _really_ hard not to read that as “We want people to have the freedom to be suckered and then have to live with the results of being suckered.” ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2012, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/noonan-is-in-rare-form-commenting-on-wi-and-other-things/624462/55 "2012-06-11T18:32:29Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > That’s because the moderator has changed my post and added a period at the end of the URL, apparently. > > [http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303753904577452793597495290](http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303753904577452793597495290) Sorry, my bad - I’ve fixed the link in the OP. ---
**Author:** ![Library\_Boy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/cab0a1/32.png) [@Library\_Boy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Library_Boy)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2012, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/noonan-is-in-rare-form-commenting-on-wi-and-other-things/624462/56 "2012-06-11T20:56:33Z")
> [@Frostillicus](#): > > Uh, I contribure 9% of my salary to my pension. Good enough for you? Depends on the rules of your pension. In my city workers can retire as young as 55 (with 30 years) at 100% of their highest ever salary. At those rules, they need to be contributing more than 9%, or the system goes broke, which it is doing. ---
**Author:** ![Frostillicus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Frostillicus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frostillicus)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2012, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/noonan-is-in-rare-form-commenting-on-wi-and-other-things/624462/57 "2012-06-12T13:54:50Z")
> [@Library\_Boy](#): > > Depends on the rules of your pension. > > In my city workers can retire as young as 55 (with 30 years) at 100% of their highest ever salary. At those rules, they need to be contributing more than 9%, or the system goes broke, which it is doing. We can retire at 75% after 35 years in the system. Good enough now? ---
**Author:** ![5f4super](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/5/b5ac83/32.png) [@5f4super](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/5f4super)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2012, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/noonan-is-in-rare-form-commenting-on-wi-and-other-things/624462/58 "2012-06-13T04:25:08Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > I still wouldn’t piss on her. You beat me to it. ---
**Author:** ![5f4super](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/5/b5ac83/32.png) [@5f4super](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/5f4super)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2012, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/noonan-is-in-rare-form-commenting-on-wi-and-other-things/624462/59 "2012-06-13T04:29:16Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > I understand it fine; I simply don’t believe it. Conservatives have always been the enemy of freedom, and “personal responsibility” is just code for making sure that people who are oppressed or exploited have no recourse. Conservatism throughout all of history has always been evil, a force of greed and tyranny and cruelty. It has always fought against good and to defend evil; whether it’s opposition to letting women vote or fighting to keep blacks slaves, it has always stood for tyranny and evil. Man, you summed it up PERFECTLY. ---
**Author:** ![Library\_Boy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/cab0a1/32.png) [@Library\_Boy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Library_Boy)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2012, 6:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/noonan-is-in-rare-form-commenting-on-wi-and-other-things/624462/60 "2012-06-13T06:10:50Z")
> [@Frostillicus](#): > > We can retire at 75% after 35 years in the system. Good enough now? Peachy. It sounds like your pension may be adequately funded. Many of them are not. Many of the ones that are not are in my state. Ok if I worry about it? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/noonan-is-in-rare-form-commenting-on-wi-and-other-things/624462.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/noonan-is-in-rare-form-commenting-on-wi-and-other-things/624462.md?page=4)