# Noone is born atheist **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 20, 2008, 7:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/noone-is-born-atheist/478049 "2008-12-20T07:03:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/brown_eyed_girl/32/3574_2.png) [@Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brown_Eyed_Girl)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2008, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/noone-is-born-atheist/478049/181 "2008-12-22T18:56:13Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > Not everyone can learn science, so if science was the way to find God, not everyone could find Him, which would make God a crazy asshole. That’s why He makes it very simple to find Him, to just believe. Something everyone can do, even scientists can do this. Can you think of a better single way that anyone can seek out God, by some other method that would allow anyone to find Him, regardless of education level? SANTA! I believe in you! Now, bring me lots of presents! God, I hate religion. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2008, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/noone-is-born-atheist/478049/182 "2008-12-22T19:10:31Z")
> [@Shalmanese](#): > > It is not enough to claim that gods do not exist to become atheist, you must also provide a explanation that explains the evidence for the existence of gods. I have no idea why you believe this to be true. As a matter of intellectual exercise Atheist’s my provide theories why people believe the things they do, but what you’re essentially saying is ‘Christianity contends that all other religions are the work of the devil, and in dismissing alternate theories their own faith is made whole, Atheisim must also do this to become whole, anything less is just denial.’ ---
**Author:** ![Discordia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Discordia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Discordia)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2008, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/noone-is-born-atheist/478049/183 "2008-12-22T19:19:23Z")
1. Atheists are under no obligation to explain why people believe in myths. 2. There’s no evidence for God/s anyway. ---
**Author:** ![control-z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/eada6e/32.png) [@control-z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/control-z)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2008, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/noone-is-born-atheist/478049/184 "2008-12-22T21:41:40Z")
I think religion is basically a way to control and/or comfort people. We’re born atheist until we’re told otherwise. Just like no one is born believing in Santa Claus. Maybe some “feel” there his a higher power but what exactly that higher power is depends on the individual imagination. All it takes is a persuasive individual or willing listeners to start a belief system. ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2008, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/noone-is-born-atheist/478049/185 "2008-12-22T22:38:36Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > I’m trying to find an online version of one of my favourites, in which God, having finished the Earth and while thinking “And just to make it interesting…” sprinkles in some Jerks. Oddly enough someone [posted a link to that very cartoon](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=10590367&postcount=6) over in an MPSIMS thread just last week. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2008, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/noone-is-born-atheist/478049/186 "2008-12-22T23:48:00Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Sounds okay to me. I don’t see religion curing cancer anytime soon, but science has a pretty good shot at it. The dirty little secret that the powers of their world don’t want you to know is God wants to cure it, actually abolish it. But we, in our ways, want human solutions, we don’t want to depend on God, so He lets us. [QUOTE=Discordia] 1) Atheists are under no obligation to explain why people believe in myths. 2) There’s no evidence for God/s anyway. [/QUOTE] I would contend that there is ample evidence in all creation of a God, and it is not even logical to make the conclusive statement there is no God, as this statement can never be proven. [QUOTE=MEBuckner] You know what a truly evil religion would be? One whose founder told his followers that they must hate their families and even maim themselves, who openly boasted of bringing strife and even warfare, and who gloated that his enemies would be subjected to horrible tortures. [/QUOTE] Do you claim atheists don’t. It the condition of the fallen world that leads to those things, Jesus gives a way out of it. [QUOTE=curlcoat] Huh. And here I thought the Bible was completely anti-woman. [/QUOTE] Then you don’t understand it. While women are put in submission to men, they enjoy great advantages if they follow the Word of God, including having a Christ figure in the flesh, in the form of their husband or father to love and comfort them (if they select a spiritually mature believer), men don’t get this, though male children do. They are also spared in ‘overcoming’ in their calling, only men are called to overcome. Woman are greatly Loved by God, actually no greater Love is possible. > [@](#): > > Your interpretation is our free will is why we are in pain and if we would just become slaves to God, we would always be happy. This is a good way of stating it. Paul says become slaves to righteousness, instead of sin. Yes many followers do go through very rough times, myself included, but following God is the best possible life for anyone. > [@](#): > > Hell is a place underground. If a womb is hell, is it any wonder I never wanted children? Hell is a place underground, but so is Sheol (the abode of the dead). Hell seemed to be opened up for business at the time of Jesus, my understanding is both are underground, but different, as perhaps the hidden places underground are. [QUOTE=Andy L] The Bible notes that anti-Christs will claim divine authority, as I recall, which means that atheists are in the clear. [/QUOTE] No, that is the Beast (Rev), the spirits of the Antichrist is a more generalized term for any spirit that denies Christ. [QUOTE=cosomosdan] From our discussion in another thread it doesn’t appear to me you actually believe this. [/QUOTE] I don’t know how long ago you are referring to, but if you seek Him you will find Him. It’s really that simple, and it has to be. [QUOTE=DrCube] kanicbird, I wish I could call you crazy, but you’re more representative of the prevailing beliefs of present Americans than the rest of the SDMB. [/QUOTE] I don’t know why you think my beliefs are more representative of the prevailing beliefs, they are not, I can assure you. Many people have man made dogma’s that fall into the category of Christianity, but that is just as bad as the atheists stuff and have nothing to do with God. [QUOTE=LHoD] You could have sopped the Holocaust and you didn’t? You knew how to stop SIDS for years, and you didn’t tell us? What the hell’s wrong with you?) [/quote] I can assure you God can answer this in a way that will make you cover your mouth in shame. Here is Job’s response (You refers to God in the below quote): [QUOTE=Job 42:3] You asked, ‘Who is this that obscures my counsel without knowledge?’ Surely I spoke of things I did not understand, things too wonderful for me to know. 4 "You said, ‘Listen now, and I will speak; I will question you, and you shall answer me.’ 5 My ears had heard of you but now my eyes have seen you. 6 Therefore I despise myself and repent in dust and ashes." [/QUOTE] ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2008, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/noone-is-born-atheist/478049/187 "2008-12-22T23:54:27Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > The dirty little secret that the powers of their world don’t want you to know is God wants to cure it, actually abolish it. But we, in our ways, want human solutions, we don’t want to depend on God, so He lets us. God is being stopped by these petty bureaucrats? What a pussy. ---
**Author:** ![hotflungwok](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/edb3f5/32.png) [@hotflungwok](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hotflungwok)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2008, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/noone-is-born-atheist/478049/188 "2008-12-23T02:17:18Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > The dirty little secret that the powers of their world don’t want you to know is God wants to cure it, actually abolish it. But we, in our ways, want human solutions, we don’t want to depend on God, so He lets us. so god made us this way, and he punishes us for it? You worship an evil being. > [@](#): > > I would contend that there is ample evidence in all creation of a God, and it is not even logical to make the conclusive statement there is no God, as this statement can never be proven. Proving that god does not exist is unnecessary, as you have yet to present evidence that even suggests his existence. The default position on a claim so utterly ridiculous as god is disbelief, and until evidence is produced, that position is the reasonable one. You claim to see ample evidence, but you have yet to share it with the rest of us. If it’s so ample, why haven’t you brought it forward? Aren’t you confident that it will convince us, if it is after all, actual evidence? Or are you afraid that it will just expose your beliefs for what they are? > [@](#): > > Do you claim atheists don’t. It the condition of the fallen world that leads to those things, Jesus gives a way out of it. Which atheists suggest that other atheists must hate their families? Maim themselves? Any of the other things that were named that you are suggesting atheists do? Can you support this claim or is it just another fit of projection? > [@](#): > > Then you don’t understand it. While women are put in submission to men, they enjoy great advantages if they follow the Word of God, including having a Christ figure in the flesh, in the form of their husband or father to love and comfort them (if they select a spiritually mature believer), men don’t get this, though male children do. They are also spared in ‘overcoming’ in their calling, only men are called to overcome. Woman are greatly Loved by God, actually no greater Love is possible. Ever looked up any statistics on spousal abuse? If what you said was true, there wouldn’t be any. Why would women want another Christ in their lives? Isn’t one enough? This is misogyny disguised with useless platitudes and empty assurances. You tell them to submit themselves to will of another human being willingly, give them nothing in return, and tell them to be happy about it. > [@](#): > > This is a good way of stating it. Paul says become slaves to righteousness, instead of sin. Yes many followers do go through very rough times, myself included, but following God is the best possible life for anyone. Again, you want dominance and offer nothing in return. Your god is a power hungry tyrant. If your god truly loved you as you think he does, why do you have to go through rough times? I can name any number of examples of people suffering needlessly while your god stands by and watches and does nothing. This is not love. > [@](#): > > Hell is a place underground, but so is Sheol (the abode of the dead). Hell seemed to be opened up for business at the time of Jesus, my understanding is both are underground, but different, as perhaps the hidden places underground are. :rolleyes: Any evidence for this or is it more speculation? > [@](#): > > No, that is the Beast (Rev), the spirits of the Antichrist is a more generalized term for any spirit that denies Christ. First time I’ve ever heard it used this way. So do you have a cite for this, or are you just making it up? > [@](#): > > I don’t know how long ago you are referring to, but if you seek Him you will find Him. It’s really that simple, and it has to be. This sounds an awful lot like desperation. It just has to be! If it was so easy everyone would have done it, and it wouldn’t have any value as an achievement. > [@](#): > > I don’t know why you think my beliefs are more representative of the prevailing beliefs, they are not, I can assure you. Many people have man made dogma’s that fall into the category of Christianity, but that is just as bad as the atheists stuff and have nothing to do with God. So you can prove that your dogma is not man made of course? That nothing about it came from your own mind, that it’s not just what you want to believe? That you’re not taking from Christianity what you want and ignoring the rest? You sure about that? > [@](#): > > I can assure you God can answer this in a way that will make you cover your mouth in shame. Here is Job’s response (You refers to God in the below quote): So far you haven’t assured us of anything. Quoting the bible won’t get you anywhere until you show that the bible is something other than just a bunch of stories written by primitive and superstitious men. And I noticed you didn’t address my post. Wonder why. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2008, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/noone-is-born-atheist/478049/189 "2008-12-23T03:56:31Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > I’m trying to find an online version of one of my favourites, in which God, having finished the Earth and while thinking “And just to make it interesting…” sprinkles in some Jerks. LOL he over sprinkled a bit didn’t he? Not on the SDMB, but elsewhere. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2008, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/noone-is-born-atheist/478049/190 "2008-12-23T04:31:54Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > I don’t know how long ago you are referring to, but if you seek Him you will find Him. It’s really that simple, and it has to be. Short term memory loss? In the **Will all real creationists please stand up?** we had a lengthy discussion about this very topic. While I suggested that people from other religions may also be seeking God just as sincerely as any Christian your take seemed to be that of they didn’t believe the proper things {which you determined} then they were following Satan or lesser gods. My conclusion is that you qualify this belief , that seekers find, only if their beliefs are the same as yours or at least very close. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2008, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/noone-is-born-atheist/478049/191 "2008-12-23T05:03:14Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > The dirty little secret that the powers of their world don’t want you to know is God wants to cure it, actually abolish it. But we, in our ways, want human solutions, we don’t want to depend on God, so He lets us. Your god/satan is real big on free will, except when it doesn’t suit his evil plans and he has to force humans to do evil: > [@](#): > > Exodus 9:12 > But the LORD hardened Pharaoh’s heart and he would not listen to Moses and Aaron, just as the LORD had said to Moses. > > Exodus 10:20 > But the LORD hardened Pharaoh’s heart, and he would not let the Israelites go. > > Exodus 10:27 > But the LORD hardened Pharaoh’s heart, and he was not willing to let them go. > > Exodus 11:10 > Moses and Aaron performed all these wonders before Pharaoh, but the LORD hardened Pharaoh’s heart, and he would not let the Israelites go out of his country. > > Exodus 14:8 > The LORD hardened the heart of Pharaoh king of Egypt, so that he pursued the Israelites, who were marching out boldly. > > Joshua 11:19-20 > Except for the Hivites living in Gibeon, not one city made a treaty of peace with the Israelites, who took them all in battle. 20 For it was the LORD himself who hardened their hearts to wage war against Israel, so that he might destroy them totally, exterminating them without mercy, as the LORD had commanded Moses. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2008, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/noone-is-born-atheist/478049/192 "2008-12-23T05:08:30Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > I can assure you God can answer this in a way that will make you cover your mouth in shame. Here is Job’s response (You refers to God in the below quote): That’s awesome that you can assure me: though you are human, you presume to speak for God, to know what God thinks. Are you way, way smarter than me, or just way, way more presumptuous? Given God’s exchange with Job, I like to think that I woulda said, “Oh, bullshit, man! You killed a lot of innocent people there, just to prove that I can’t **question** you? What the hell’s the matter with you! You’re omnipotent–you don’t NEED to go on a power trip!” Of course, God would condemn me to everlasting torment for that, presumably. Better to submit to God’s evil, I suppose, than risk the ultimate punishment. Look. I acknowledge there may be a good explanation for ebola. Do you acknowledge that you haven’t heard it? On hearing it–or even on encountering something that makes me believe such an explanation exists–I’ll be willing to forgive this hypothetical God. But I can only operate with my limited information, same as you. And though we’ve looked at the same information, I’ve concluded from what I’ve seen that the best possible explanation is the lack of a supreme being–because if something deliberately created ebola, we’re fucked. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2008, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/noone-is-born-atheist/478049/193 "2008-12-23T05:11:18Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Your god/satan is real big on free will, except when it doesn’t suit his evil plans and he has to force humans to do evil: Hey, that’s the old-testament smitin’ god, not the new testament lovin’ god. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2008, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/noone-is-born-atheist/478049/194 "2008-12-23T05:28:27Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Hey, that’s the old-testament smitin’ god, not the new testament lovin’ god. By golly you are right! Let’s see here… > [@](#): > > **Romans 9:18** > > Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2008, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/noone-is-born-atheist/478049/195 "2008-12-23T05:41:22Z")
God’s a popular high-school girl? ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2008, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/noone-is-born-atheist/478049/196 "2008-12-23T12:32:24Z")
> [@cosmosdan](#): > > Short term memory loss? In the **Will all real creationists please stand up?** we had a lengthy discussion about this very topic. While I suggested that people from other religions may also be seeking God just as sincerely as any Christian your take seemed to be that of they didn’t believe the proper things {which you determined} then they were following Satan or lesser gods. > > My conclusion is that you qualify this belief , that seekers find, only if their beliefs are the same as yours or at least very close. I don’t have time right now to review that, but do recall some of what you said, along with other teachings. One thing is absolute, the only way to God is through Jesus, there are no exceptions ever. As such there is one road. Demons have taught there are many roads to God, all faiths are paths. Typically demons don’t outright lie, but tell deceptive truths designed to mislead. There is one path to God, through Jesus, there are many paths to Jesus, which I suspect is the hidden truth to the many roads to God. People seeking God and get sidetracked into other faiths, I believe if they are truly seeking will eventually come to God through Jesus. These beliefs include atheism, other faiths, and many man made rules in Christianity. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2008, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/noone-is-born-atheist/478049/197 "2008-12-23T12:48:12Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > These beliefs include atheism, other faiths, and many man made rules in Christianity. Please quote the parts of Chrisitanity that are not man made. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2008, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/noone-is-born-atheist/478049/198 "2008-12-23T14:20:30Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > I don’t have time right now to review that, but do recall some of what you said, along with other teachings. One thing is absolute, the only way to God is through Jesus, there are no exceptions ever. As such there is one road. > > Demons have taught there are many roads to God, all faiths are paths. Typically demons don’t outright lie, but tell deceptive truths designed to mislead. There is one path to God, through Jesus, there are many paths to Jesus, which I suspect is the hidden truth to the many roads to God. People seeking God and get sidetracked into other faiths, I believe if they are truly seeking will eventually come to God through Jesus. These beliefs include atheism, other faiths, and many man made rules in Christianity. I see. I didn’t get that impression in the other thread from your interpretations of certain passages. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2008, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/noone-is-born-atheist/478049/199 "2008-12-23T23:22:05Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Your god/satan is real big on free will, except when it doesn’t suit his evil plans and he has to force humans to do evil: God does at times limit our choices for His purpose. By hardening Pharaoh’s heart, I would WAG, he would be blinded to one path, and continued on the other. This seemed to be used, in part, to build up Moses. [QUOTE=hotflungwok] Ever looked up any statistics on spousal abuse? If what you said was true, there wouldn’t be any. Why would women want another Christ in their lives? Isn’t one enough? This is misogyny disguised with useless platitudes and empty assurances. You tell them to submit themselves to will of another human being willingly, give them nothing in return, and tell them to be happy about it. [/QUOTE] It is modern society which ignore the obvious and condemn women to a life of misery continuing pursuing happiness in places they will never find it at the same time destroying families killing children and haunting women with the cry of unborn life. If you don’t want to take the Word of God, just look at biology, how much the female body actually changes to accommodate children, from physical changes to continuous hormone fluctuations for the specific purpose of having children. It is unquestionable that the adult female body is biologically purposed to have and raise children, it would follow that since this is the purpose, she would find her fulfillment and happyness in this. But unfortunately many women believe the lies taught to them, and feel resentful of this purpose. They try to chase happiness in other ways, this is IMHO always a failure, and we can see the results in divorce, unloved & aborted children, other people raising children then the parents, spousal abuse (yes I place that here), submissive emasculated men (which is opposite their natural callings, which causes oppression to them). This movement has struck a devastating blow in the heart of the family and we are reaping the consequences. [QUOTE=Fear Itself] Please quote the parts of Chrisitanity that are not man made. [/QUOTE] Start with Genesis 1:1, read till (and including) Revelation 22:21 [QUOTE=hotflungwok] First time I’ve ever heard it used this way. So do you have a cite for this, or are you just making it up? [/QUOTE] [QUOTE=1 John 2:18] [Warning Against Antichrists] Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come. This is how we know it is the last hour. [/QUOTE] > [@](#): > > Again, you want dominance and offer nothing in return. Your god is a power hungry tyrant. If your god truly loved you as you think he does, why do you have to go through rough times? I can name any number of examples of people suffering needlessly while your god stands by and watches and does nothing. This is not love. What He offers is the best possible life you can have in this fallen world, and after eternal life. He already has all power, so He does not require your power, but He wants you to have the best possible life, and He is making the offer because He Loves you, not because He needs to. But if you insist He will let you follow other gods, including atheism, as man is a god as defined by God. I have gone through very hard times for the Lord. It is part of what man is charged with, to overcome. In my experience when we come to Him and follow Him, He walks us down a path to ‘undo’ what we have done, but part of that pain along the way He takes, as we can’t bear it. [QUOTE=cosomosdan] I see. I didn’t get that impression in the other thread from your interpretations of certain passages. [/QUOTE] It’s something that I’ve come to lately, the part that there are many roads to Jesus. ---
**Author:** ![Bites\_When\_Provoked](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bites_when_provoked/32/18073_2.png) [@Bites\_When\_Provoked](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bites_When_Provoked)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2008, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/noone-is-born-atheist/478049/200 "2008-12-24T00:49:12Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > God does at times limit our choices for His purpose. By hardening Pharaoh’s heart, I would WAG, he would be blinded to one path, and continued on the other. This seemed to be used, in part, to build up Moses. I want to be considerate of all views, but does this even make sense? Why would an \*\*omnipotent \*\*god need to ‘build up’ Moses instead of, say, just fixing the problem? Why would a \*\*loving \*\*god sacrifice innocent people as part of an elaborate marketing campaign? Have you actually considered what you’re suggesting? You’re making the atheist’s case for them: by your own words you’ve established that the god of the bible is neither omnipotent nor loving. Of course, the LORD \*does \*move in mysterious (and sometimes sociopathic) ways… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/noone-is-born-atheist/478049.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/noone-is-born-atheist/478049.md?page=11)