# Noone is born atheist **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 20, 2008, 7:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/noone-is-born-atheist/478049 "2008-12-20T07:03:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/brown_eyed_girl/32/3574_2.png) [@Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brown_Eyed_Girl)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2008, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/noone-is-born-atheist/478049/261 "2008-12-26T16:33:47Z")
> [@Jesse\_Leigh](#): > > I’m not opposed to visiting any church or home where Christ is welcome, even amidst all the garbage that’s preached there is usually a gem or two of truth, and I use my sieve liberally when listening to any preacher. If you think you can pick out the truths from the “garbage” that preachers say, I would think you could understand that the same method is being practiced here, only from an atheist’s point of view, you are spouting just as much garbage as you think any of those preachers do. You believe that you are wise enough to tell the difference, but are just making subjective judgments. > [@](#): > > The irony is, as a missionary, I’ve spent most of my life in places where Christ is _not welcome_ in an effort to change that, as Christ commanded. Again, this is the part that irks me. There’s no irony in this statement at all. It’s arrogance, really. It says simply: I am right, you are wrong, and I will show you The Way. The irony is that it bothers you that atheists do the same. ---
**Author:** ![Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/brown_eyed_girl/32/3574_2.png) [@Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brown_Eyed_Girl)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2008, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/noone-is-born-atheist/478049/262 "2008-12-26T16:54:56Z")
[QUOTE=Jesse Leigh] …as a missionary, I’ve spent most of my life in places where Christ is _not welcome_ in an effort to change that, as Christ commanded. [/quote] [QUOTE=Jesse Leigh] I don’t need you to believe that God exists because I already _know_ that He does. [/QUOTE] Color me confused. You say you are a missionary and try to bring people to Christ, but you don’t need to have others believe in God’s existence because you are certain of it? How exactly do you sell Christ to people without first establishing God’s existence? Or, are you simply limiting yourself to converting (to your particular brand of religion) people who already believe in God but call him something different? I suppose it’s easier when you have a head start. ---
**Author:** ![Jesse\_Leigh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7ea924/32.png) [@Jesse\_Leigh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jesse_Leigh)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2008, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/noone-is-born-atheist/478049/263 "2008-12-26T16:56:40Z")
> [@Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](#): > > If you think you can pick out the truths from the “garbage” that preachers say, I would think you could understand that the same method is being practiced here, only from an atheist’s point of view, you are spouting just as much garbage as you think any of those preachers do. You believe that you are wise enough to tell the difference, but are just making subjective judgments. > > **I don’t rely upon my own wisdom. The points of reference and the Being on Whom I rely completely is not recognized on this forum. However, I surrendered my life to God through Christ long ago, and it is HIS Wisdom upon which I rely. Each day, as commanded, I present myself as a LIVNG SACRIFICE to GOD and my members for works of righteousness. I then ask GOD to show me His Will for me that day, and - HE does. I wouldn’t _want_ to direct my own steps, and am content to leave my life in my Father’s hands.** > > Again, this is the part that irks me. There’s no irony in this statement at all. It’s arrogance, really. It says simply: I am right, you are wrong, and I will show you The Way. The irony is that it bothers you that atheists do the same. I don’t believe it’s arrogance to put forth what the Creator says. It’s _never_ that I am right, but rather that _HE_ is right, and the only WAY to eternal life is through Jesus Christ, our Lord. However, God permits us to believe or not, listen or not, and learn or not, and we all have those choices - but there will be test later. 😉 Love - Jesse. ---
**Author:** ![Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/brown_eyed_girl/32/3574_2.png) [@Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brown_Eyed_Girl)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2008, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/noone-is-born-atheist/478049/264 "2008-12-26T17:04:48Z")
> [@Jesse\_Leigh](#): > > I don’t believe it’s arrogance to put forth what the Creator says. It’s _never_ that I am right, but rather that _HE_ is right, and the only WAY to eternal life is through Jesus Christ, our Lord. Correction: what you \*believe \*“what the Creator says.” > [@](#): > > However, God permits us to believe or not, listen or not, and learn or not, and we all have those choices - but there will be test later. 😉 If you are correct (big IF as there’s no evidence that you are) and God is allowing some of us to practice faith differently, not believe at all, or even feel indifferent to his presence, that must be his will. If it is his will, then, in your eyes, resistance is futile and attempting to convert is superfluous as we are all “doing his will.” ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2008, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/noone-is-born-atheist/478049/265 "2008-12-26T17:07:35Z")
> [@Jesse\_Leigh](#): > > Who is advocating worship without action? The Bible says **‘Faith without works is dead.’** > > The truth is the truth wherever one finds it. > > You may not call it ‘asking for help’ but you did ask me a question and demanded an answer. I tried to provide, not my own wisdom, but wisdom from above, since that is where you aimed your question originally, but were obviously disappointed with the answer - or lack of one. > > Re: the definition of insanity - quite true, but my life has been anything but repetitious, and while perhaps not entirely blissful, I think it’s evident from our respective posts that one of us has been graced with an inner peace that the other has yet to find. > > Have a sweet and peaceful day - Jesse. If the truth is the truth wherever one finds it, then it’s not universal. Which means your statements about “not doing it right” or “not following instructions” are completely meaningless. I didn’t ask for help, nor did I “demand” an answer. I asked why you think you’re so important that a god substance would choose you over me or anyone else to be the spokesperson who bears the secret to eternal happiness. On the subject of inner peace, I hardly think you’re in a position to make a call on that. The fact that you come off as delusional and egotistical has nothing to do with my inner peace. While your life may not be repetitious, your witnessing most certainly is. You’re free to believe in the Magnificent Nothing, but telling me that it’s “so” because the bible says so is doing nothing to support your case. ---
**Author:** ![Jesse\_Leigh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7ea924/32.png) [@Jesse\_Leigh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jesse_Leigh)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2008, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/noone-is-born-atheist/478049/266 "2008-12-26T17:09:51Z")
> [@Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](#): > > Color me confused. > > You say you are a missionary and try to bring people to Christ, but you don’t need to have others believe in God’s existence because you are certain of it? How exactly do you sell Christ to people without first establishing God’s existence? > > \*\*You’re misquoting me. Yes, I am a missionary, but a missionary is a seed-sower only. GOD brings people to Christ. No human ever converted anyone. > > Christ is not for sale. The Gospel is free. And as Jesus says, ‘My sheep know My voice.’ There is no need for me to establish anything. God’s Spirit resonates within the hearts of those who LOVE Him.\*\* > > Or, are you simply limiting yourself to converting (to your particular brand of religion) people who already believe in God but call him something different? I suppose it’s easier when you have a head start. \*\*I don’t have a ‘particular brand of religion.’ I preach the Gospel as Christ taught it, although I don’t do it unless confronted on this forum. I’m usually sent to people in geographical locations who have no knowledge of Jesus Christ or the Gospel. I hope this answers your questions satisfactorily.\*\* Love - Jesse. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2008, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/noone-is-born-atheist/478049/267 "2008-12-26T17:15:39Z")
> [@Jesse\_Leigh](#): > > \*\*[SIZE=“2”][COLOR=“Blue”]I don’t have a ‘particular brand of religion.’ I preach the Gospel as Christ taught it … . Of course you have a “a particular brand of religion” … Christianity. Do you teach that Christ was divine, or merely that he was a prophet? If you teach that he’s divine most Muslims would say that you’re wrong and your false teachings are holding people back from having a proper relationship with God. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2008, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/noone-is-born-atheist/478049/268 "2008-12-26T17:18:16Z")
> [@Jesse\_Leigh](#): > > I don’t have a ‘particular brand of religion.’ I preach the Gospel as Christ taught it These two statements contradict each other. > [@](#): > > I’m usually sent to people in geographical locations who have no knowledge of Jesus Christ or the Gospel. You live in a Chick Tract? That explains a lot. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2008, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/noone-is-born-atheist/478049/269 "2008-12-26T17:18:24Z")
> [@Jesse\_Leigh](#): > > \*\*I don’t have a ‘particular brand of religion.’ I preach the Gospel as Christ taught it, although I don’t do it unless confronted on this forum. I’m usually sent to people in geographical locations who have no knowledge of Jesus Christ or the Gospel. > > I hope this answers your questions satisfactorily.\*\* > > Love - Jesse. Just for the record, your brand of religion is called “christianity.” Tell me…what do those poor non-indoctrinated folks have to do to get you to help them? Do you feed, clothe, and teach the “three Rs” without pushing your religion down their throat? Just curious. ---
**Author:** ![Jesse\_Leigh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7ea924/32.png) [@Jesse\_Leigh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jesse_Leigh)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2008, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/noone-is-born-atheist/478049/270 "2008-12-26T17:29:23Z")
> [@Pochacco](#): > > Of course you have a “a particular brand of religion” … Christianity. > > **Christianity is a mess. I worship YHWH and follow Yeshua, the Christ.** > > Do you teach that Christ was divine, or merely that he was a prophet? If you teach that he’s divine most Muslims would say that you’re wrong and your false teachings are holding people back from having a proper relationship with God. \*\*I teach what Christ taught - that He is the only-begotten Son of The Living God. I’ll leave it up to you to determine whether you see that as ‘Divine’ or not. I have taught many Muslims from the Bible in their own country and have yet to have one of them say to me what you just did. Many Muslims are HUNGRY for the Word of YHWH as taught by Jesus Christ.\*\* Love - Jesse. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2008, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/noone-is-born-atheist/478049/271 "2008-12-26T17:37:43Z")
Well, you scored one point with me. Your brand of religion, _christianity_, is in deed a mess. So much of a mess that you don’t even realize that you’re as hard-core christian as a person could possibly be. Exactly where do you think the word “christianity” came from? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2008, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/noone-is-born-atheist/478049/272 "2008-12-26T17:45:14Z")
> [@Jesse\_Leigh](#): > > I have taught many Muslims from the Bible in their own country and have yet to have one of them say to me what you just did. Many Muslims are HUNGRY for the Word of YHWH as taught by Jesus Christ. Have you ever actually asked any Muslims what they think? Do you care? Ask any of them if he was God. Go ahead. Ask them. They’ll tell you your Bible got it wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Jesse\_Leigh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7ea924/32.png) [@Jesse\_Leigh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jesse_Leigh)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2008, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/noone-is-born-atheist/478049/273 "2008-12-26T17:45:37Z")
\*\*Hello Kalhoun! ‘Christian’ was a derogatory term applied by the Romans to first-third century followers of ‘The Way.’\*\* Love - Jesse. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2008, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/noone-is-born-atheist/478049/274 "2008-12-26T17:50:27Z")
> [@Jesse\_Leigh](#): > > \*\*Hello Kalhoun! > > ‘Christian’ was a derogatory term applied by the Romans to first-third century followers of ‘The Way.’\*\* > > Love - Jesse. No…christians are followers of christ. It’s the root word. It doesn’t matter if it was (or still is) used as a derogatory term. If you are a follower of christ, you’re a christian. Ain’t no two ways about it. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2008, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/noone-is-born-atheist/478049/275 "2008-12-26T17:51:08Z")
> [@Kalhoun](#): > > Well, you scored one point with me. Your brand of religion, _christianity_, is in deed a mess. So much of a mess that you don’t even realize that you’re as hard-core christian as a person could possibly be. Exactly where do you think the word “christianity” came from? For some reason a lot of hardcore fundies try to play this game of denying that they’re “religious.” I’m not sure I quite understand the posture, but it seems to have something to do with a desire to present themselves as not being beholden to any human institutions, but that (in their own minds), they are directly followers of “the word of God” (i.e. the Bible) without any human , institutional filter. Of Course, the Bible was written by humans and edited by humans and canonized by human committees, and most of these people’s interpretations of the Bible comes from what other humans and institutions dictate to them, but don’t tell them that. They think they’re drinking pure spring water. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2008, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/noone-is-born-atheist/478049/276 "2008-12-26T17:52:22Z")
> [@Jesse\_Leigh](#): > > However, God permits us to believe or not, listen or not, and learn or not, and we all have those choices - but there will be test later. 😉 Since we have already showed scripture where god forces people to act evilly, I see no reason he would not force people to act piously. That he does the former but not the latter proves he is a monster. ---
**Author:** ![Jesse\_Leigh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7ea924/32.png) [@Jesse\_Leigh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jesse_Leigh)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2008, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/noone-is-born-atheist/478049/277 "2008-12-26T17:56:48Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Have you ever actually asked any Muslims what they think? Do you care? > > \*\*This is becoming absurd. Of course I asked them what they thought, they wanted to know what the Bible said and Whom Jesus is. > > Do I care? Of course I care, I love the people to whom I was sent. Why else would I be working under penalty of death in Palestine?\*\* > > Ask any of them if he was God. Go ahead. Ask them. They’ll tell you your Bible got it wrong. \*\*I’m not presently in Palestine or anywhere else in the Middle East. There are Mulsims who visit my forum though. Most are looking for common ground and aren’t interested in saying ‘My God is bigger than your God,’ or words to that effect. I have never said that Jesus is GOD. I have only ever said that Jesus is the only begotten _SON_ of GOD - as Jesus Himself claimed He is.\*\* Love - Jesse. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2008, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/noone-is-born-atheist/478049/278 "2008-12-26T17:57:31Z")
> [@Jesse\_Leigh](#): > > \*\*Hello Kalhoun! > > ‘Christian’ was a derogatory term applied by the Romans to first-third century followers of ‘The Way.’\*\* > > Love - Jesse. Yeah and that’s a pretty stupid name. A better name might be, “A Way.” Since you know, most people on Earth think you’re wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2008, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/noone-is-born-atheist/478049/279 "2008-12-26T18:01:44Z")
> [@Jesse\_Leigh](#): > > \*\*Hello Kalhoun! > > ‘Christian’ was a derogatory term applied by the Romans to first-third century followers of ‘The Way.’\*\* And it was proudly adopted by those worshippers, so the origin is kind of irrelevant. **Kalhoun** , the term “Christian” originally did have a mildly imprecatory sense. _Christos_ is the Greek word for “oiled,” or “anointed” (which in Hebrew was “Messiah”). People in Greek speaking communities allegedly called worshippers of Jesus “oily ones” (_Christianoi_) as a way to dick with them. This is still a rather specious reason for Jesse to deny that she’s religiously Christian, of course). ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2008, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/noone-is-born-atheist/478049/280 "2008-12-26T18:02:28Z")
> [@Jesse\_Leigh](#): > > \*\*I’m not presently in Palestine or anywhere else in the Middle East. There are Mulsims who visit my forum though. Most are looking for common ground and aren’t interested in saying ‘My God is bigger than your God,’ or words to that effect. > > I have never said that Jesus is GOD. I have only ever said that Jesus is the only begotten _SON_ of GOD - as Jesus Himself claimed He is.\*\* > > Love - Jesse. I think we’d all appreciate it if you didn’t fuck around with the small font when we’re trying to read what you’re typing. Who cares what jesus claimed he is? The guy down the street from me claimed he was a signal tower for pint-sized inner-Earth dwellers. As adults, we weigh the plausibility of the statements people make. Hopefully, we learn to separate the whack-jobs from those who have their minds firmly planted in reality. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/noone-is-born-atheist/478049.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/noone-is-born-atheist/478049.md?page=15)