Noone is born atheist

[hotflungwok]

@kanicbird

God does at times limit our choices for His purpose. By hardening Pharaoh’s heart, I would WAG, he would be blinded to one path, and continued on the other. This seemed to be used, in part, to build up Moses.

So god makes people do what he wants them to do, and then punishes him for it? Not just that person, but other, innocent, people too? Like say, the Pharoh’s son? Once again, you worship an evil being.

It is modern society which ignore the obvious and condemn women to a life of misery continuing pursuing happiness in places they will never find it at the same time destroying families killing children and haunting women with the cry of unborn life.

More misogyny. Women can be just as happy pursing a career as being a housewife. Incidentally, so can men. All you need to do for evidence is to actually ask women rather than reading an ancient book of superstitions. There are many women who are happy and fulfilled doing lots of different things, and feel no need to be forced into subservience at the behest of your imagination.

If you don’t want to take the Word of God, just look at biology, how much the female body actually changes to accommodate children, from physical changes to continuous hormone fluctuations for the specific purpose of having children. It is unquestionable that the adult female body is biologically purposed to have and raise children, it would follow that since this is the purpose, she would find her fulfillment and happyness in this.

Women are capable of bearing children, yes, this really isn’t something you need to point out to me. So what? Yes they can find happiness in this. But trying to claim that it’s the only way for them to be happy is even yet more misogyny.

But unfortunately many women believe the lies taught to them, and feel resentful of this purpose. They try to chase happiness in other ways, this is IMHO always a failure, and we can see the results in divorce, unloved & aborted children, other people raising children then the parents, spousal abuse (yes I place that here), submissive emasculated men (which is opposite their natural callings, which causes oppression to them).

So, religious married women never get divorced, have unloved or aborted children, have other people raise their children, suffer from spousal abuse, or have submissive husbands? Really? I don’t know what reality you live in, but in this one, all of these happen with disturbing frequency. If you want to claim that the only way women can be happy is in slavery to man forced to bear children, then I’m afraid you’re going to need to come up with some actual numbers, and not just more misogyny & imagination.

This movement has struck a devastating blow in the heart of the family and we are reaping the consequences.

What consequences?

Start with Genesis 1:1, read till (and including) Revelation 22:21

Hey! A claim that the bible is not man made. Prove it.

What He offers is the best possible life you can have in this fallen world, and after eternal life. He already has all power, so He does not require your power, but He wants you to have the best possible life, and He is making the offer because He Loves you, not because He needs to. But if you insist He will let you follow other gods, including atheism, as man is a god as defined by God.

Um, if your god, as you’ve described him as all powerful, wanted people to have the best possible life, and had even the tiniest amount of love for anyone, there would be no suffering. Since there is suffering, you are wrong.

I have gone through very hard times for the Lord. It is part of what man is charged with, to overcome. In my experience when we come to Him and follow Him, He walks us down a path to ‘undo’ what we have done, but part of that pain along the way He takes, as we can’t bear it.

You have gone through very hard times for yourself, it’s too bad you had to turn to delusions and make believe to get through them. In my experience when we pick ourselves up and work to make ourselves better and don’t rely on empty promises and ancient superstition, we can bear it.

Nice picking and choosing, by the way. I take you agree with my uncontested assertions that you worship and evil being, and that there is no evidence of god and then until there is there’s no point in believing in one, and that you have no evidence of the location of Hell much less it’s existence, and also that you have no evidence that your beliefs came from anyone but yourself? Good to know.

[Brown_Eyed_Girl]

If there’s one thing for certain, **kanicbird **is a poor salesman. God may need to consider hiring some competent, creative, and well, persuasive marketing agents.

[Bryan_Ekers]

@kanicbird

Start with Genesis 1:1, read till (and including) Revelation 22:21

It’s worth mentioning that Revelation 22:22 reads No warranty is expressed or implied.

[Jesse_Leigh]

According to Websters Pro Version, the word ‘religion’ simply means ‘to tie up, tie back, hold fast.’

Many believers and persons of faith, myself included, have nothing to do with religion.

It is difficult to communicate anything to non-believers about one’s personal relationship with God and Christ when non-believers, by definition, refuse to accept that God and Christ exist, which is understandable, if ridiculous, since they haven’t had any interaction with either one.

God isn’t as charitable regarding the subject. Speaking to believers God said, 'You say you believe, you do quite well, yet Satan believes and he shudders.’ Obviously implying that mere belief means nothing, or isn’t enough.

To non-believers, God says, 'I am perceived by the things made so that you are inexcusable, oh man.’ I’d say that God sounds fairly ticked in that verse.

God writes His Law on the hearts of ALL people so we aren’t all born atheists at all. We’re all born innately knowing God whether we choose to listen to the ‘voice’ inside us or not.

Happy Holidays everyone - Jesse.

[Bryan_Ekers]

@Jesse_Leigh

It is difficult to communicate anything to non-believers about one’s personal relationship with God and Christ when non-believers, by definition, refuse to accept that God and Christ exist, which is understandable, if ridiculous, since they haven’t had any interaction with either one.

If I read this right, it is ridiculous to not accept something with which one has had no experience.
Why is this, exactly? Should this person instead blindly accept the claimed experiences of others?

[hotflungwok]

@Jesse_Leigh

It is difficult to communicate anything to non-believers about one’s personal relationship with God and Christ when non-believers, by definition, refuse to accept that God and Christ exist, which is understandable, if ridiculous, since they haven’t had any interaction with either one.

A distinct lack of demonstrable interaction is a non-ridiculous reason to not believe something exists.

To non-believers, God says, 'I am perceived by the things made so that you are inexcusable, oh man.’ I’d say that God sounds fairly ticked in that verse.

How do we know god made things? How do we know which god made things? The existence of things does not prove god exists, regardless of what superstitious men wrote down centuries ago.

God writes His Law on the hearts of ALL people so we aren’t all born atheists at all. We’re all born innately knowing God whether we choose to listen to the ‘voice’ inside us or not.

How does god write this on our heart? Does it leave scar tissue? Which part of our brain contains the bit where we innately know god? Cuz I’m pretty sure it hasn’t been found. If this was true then there would be way more Christians then there are now, what with everyone having equal access to it. This is a just another meaningless platitude, an hopeful assertion without evidence.

[Kalhoun]

@Jesse_Leigh

According to Websters Pro Version, the word ‘religion’ simply means ‘to tie up, tie back, hold fast.’

Many believers and persons of faith, myself included, have nothing to do with religion.

It is difficult to communicate anything to non-believers about one’s personal relationship with God and Christ when non-believers, by definition, refuse to accept that God and Christ exist, which is understandable, if ridiculous, since they haven’t had any interaction with either one.

God isn’t as charitable regarding the subject. Speaking to believers God said, 'You say you believe, you do quite well, yet Satan believes and he shudders.’ Obviously implying that mere belief means nothing, or isn’t enough.

To non-believers, God says, 'I am perceived by the things made so that you are inexcusable, oh man.’ I’d say that God sounds fairly ticked in that verse.

God writes His Law on the hearts of ALL people so we aren’t all born atheists at all. We’re all born innately knowing God whether we choose to listen to the ‘voice’ inside us or not.

Happy Holidays everyone - Jesse.

Where do you get this information?

[kanicbird]

@Bites_When_Provoked

I want to be considerate of all views, but does this even make sense? Why would an **omnipotent **god need to ‘build up’ Moses instead of, say, just fixing the problem? Why would a **loving **god sacrifice innocent people as part of an elaborate marketing campaign?..

My take on it is He wants to use us in the process, demonstrate how God and man can work together, and that God is willing and wanting to work with us. As for ‘innocent people’, who would that be, none is sinless except Jesus?

[Jesse_Leigh]

@Bryan_Ekers

If I read this right, it is ridiculous to not accept something with which one has had no experience.
Why is this, exactly? Should this person instead blindly accept the claimed experiences of others?

No, but it’s ridiculous to consider oneself qualified to comment, particularly in a negative fashion, about something with which one has no experience. - Jesse.

[Jesse_Leigh]

@Kalhoun

Where do you get this information?

The experiences are my own. The quotes are from The Bible. - Jesse.

[Brown_Eyed_Girl]

@Jesse_Leigh

No, but it’s ridiculous to consider oneself qualified to comment, particularly in a negative fashion, about something with which one has no experience. - Jesse.

So, how experienced are you in atheism?

[cosmosdan]

@Jesse_Leigh

No, but it’s ridiculous to consider oneself qualified to comment, particularly in a negative fashion, about something with which one has no experience. - Jesse.

I hope you realize this statement doesn’t make a lot of sense. You might want to rephrase or qualify.

If a friend of mine said God spoke through his dog and told him to kill people should I comment or am I unqualified because my dog never spoke to me?

I don’t think ridicule is useful, but if believers have a right to express their beliefs openly, others have a right to comment.

[Jesse_Leigh]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesse Leigh
No, but it’s ridiculous to consider oneself qualified to comment, particularly in a negative fashion, about something with which one has no experience. - Jesse.

Brown Eyed Girl asks ‘So, how experienced are you in atheism?’

Evening Brown Eyed Girl!

I’m famiar with the experience of not believing in something (disbelief) so I understand the feeling, and I’ve spent over thirty-four years in the missionary field listening closely to and talking with thousands of atheists. I don’t feel the need to comment on their disbelief in a negative fashion. If one doesn’t believe in something or someone - they don’t believe it - simple.

The difference between most atheists and me is that they appear to feel the need to disprove God’s existence. Why? Why not just ignore the whole thing and go one their merry way? Why look with derision upon those who do believe in God and Christ? There are many things I don’t believe, including quite a few to do with faith-based issues, but I don’t look down upon those who believe differently than I do.

I’ll leave you to decide how experienced I am in understanding atheism and in accepting as valid the fact that you don’t believe.

Jesse.

[Jesse_Leigh]

@cosmosdan

I hope you realize this statement doesn’t make a lot of sense. You might want to rephrase or qualify.

If a friend of mine said God spoke through his dog and told him to kill people should I comment or am I unqualified because my dog never spoke to me?

I don’t think ridicule is useful, but if believers have a right to express their beliefs openly, others have a right to comment.

I’ll choose to qualify, thank you.

God doesn’t talk to people through animals and He doesn’t contradict His Own Commandments. Therefore, it would be reasonable if you refuted any such claim and you wouldn’t have difficulty finding Bible passages to back you up.

I have no problem with politely phrased commentary. I have a problem with those who feel qualified to *ridicule * or disparage believers - even calling them liars for talking about their personal relationship with God. Atheists are not qualified to rule out others having a relationship with a GOD simply because they don’t believe GOD exists. - Jesse.

[hotflungwok]

@Jesse_Leigh

God doesn’t talk to people through animals

How do you know this?

and He doesn’t contradict His Own Commandments.

What do you mean by this? God has broken his own commandments. He’s killed, and had adultery. Well, he wasn’t married to Mary was he? Joseph was. God has also commanded people to kill, and this is contradicting his commandment not to kill. I’m not seeing this.

Therefore, it would be reasonable if you refuted any such claim and you wouldn’t have difficulty finding Bible passages to back you up.

How would bible verses justify, well, anything?

I have no problem with politely phrased commentary. I have a problem with those who feel qualified to *ridicule * or disparage believers - even calling them liars for talking about their personal relationship with God. Atheists are not qualified to rule out others having a relationship with a GOD simply because they don’t believe GOD exists. - Jesse.

I was raised Catholic, and was religious for a long time. I have experience. I disparage.

And actually, if a being doesn’t exist, then you can’t have a relationship with them, so I think that atheists can actually do that, yeah.

[Bryan_Ekers]

@Jesse_Leigh

No, but it’s ridiculous to consider oneself qualified to comment, particularly in a negative fashion, about something with which one has no experience. - Jesse.

Well, if God wants to smite me, let him try.

[Bryan_Ekers]

@Jesse_Leigh

I have no problem with politely phrased commentary. I have a problem with those who feel qualified to *ridicule * or disparage believers - even calling them liars for talking about their personal relationship with God. Atheists are not qualified to rule out others having a relationship with a GOD simply because they don’t believe GOD exists. - Jesse.

I’m prepared to believe that believers believe God is talking to them.

[Jesse_Leigh]

@hotflungwok

How do you know this?

Actually, I’m going by track record. Thus far, as far as anyone knows, God doesn’t talk to people through animals. God does talk to people through other people, His prophets, His servants, and God has used animals from donkeys to ravens to a dove to do His bidding and interact with humans, but there’s no record anywhere that we know of where God has had an animal speak to people.

What do you mean by this? God has broken his own commandments. He’s killed, and had adultery. Well, he wasn’t married to Mary was he? Joseph was. God has also commanded people to kill, and this is contradicting his commandment not to kill. I’m not seeing this.

The Holy Spirit is not YHWH, He is subject to YHWH, prays to YHWH, and did not have intercourse with Mary. Mary (the VIRGIN Mary) wasn’t married, but engaged to Joseph at the time **‘The Holy Spirit O’ershadowed her’ and she conceived Jesus.

The Biblical commandment is ‘Thou shalt not murder,’ quite different from **‘Thou shalt not kill.’

In any case, the Commandments were given by GOD for humankind to follow. God isn’t subject to His Commandments - we are**.

How would bible verses justify, well, anything?
To an atheist they mean nothing, but to a believer, they are the Word of God.

I was raised Catholic, and was religious for a long time. I have experience. I disparage.

**Well, I don’t agree with the RCC or recognize it as Christ’s Church, but I wouldn’t disparage a member of the RCC because they have the right to believe as their conscience dictates - in this arena. **

And actually, if a being doesn’t exist, then you can’t have a relationship with them, so I think that atheists can actually do that, yeah.

That is an arrogant, ignorant presumption on your part - and you are wrong. I can say this because I have experience with The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit. What you just said is supposition on your part. - Jesse.

[Lobohan]

@Jesse_Leigh

That is an arrogant, ignorant presumption on your part - and you are wrong. I can say this because I have experience with The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit. What you just said is supposition on your part. - Jesse.

Actually you don’t. You think you do, but you’re simply misinterpreting normal emotions. It’s sad and pathetic and an utter waste of time. Sorry.

It’s arrogance, ignorance and presumption on your part for assuming that you can’t be wrong and that your fallible human perceptions and limited intellect are some sort of “proof”. You’re choosing to live in a fantasy world, don’t get all high and mighty because someone calls you on it.

[cosmosdan]

@Jesse_Leigh

I’ll choose to qualify, thank you.

God doesn’t talk to people through animals and He doesn’t contradict His Own Commandments. Therefore, it would be reasonable if you refuted any such claim and you wouldn’t have difficulty finding Bible passages to back you up.

God spoke to Moses through a burning bush and there are passages where God commanded his followers to kill the enemy aren’t there? Lot’s of passages can be used to justify various immoral acts and attitudes. Besides the specifics were not my point.

I have no problem with politely phrased commentary. I have a problem with those who feel qualified to *ridicule * or disparage believers - even calling them liars for talking about their personal relationship with God.

I can understand that. I get weary of the smug sense of superiority I sometimes experience. Keep in mind though that for many years plenty of Christians have been preaching that their particular belief system is the correct one and those who don’t worship as they do are damed, or punished, or cast out, or whatever terms they use. You can imagine that smacks of disparagement as well.

The simple truth is some atheists are jerks, and so are some believers.

Atheists are not qualified to rule out others having a relationship with a GOD simply because they don’t believe GOD exists. - Jesse.

That’s true. My experience on this board has been that most non believers would acknowledge that. However, if you voluntarily come to a public discussion board to talk about your beliefs you should expect to be challenged. If you have no way to establish you actually have a relationship with God other than by personnel testimony that’s okay too. It’s just not much of a discussion.

Again, let’s keep in mind that even now Christians strive not just to worship in peace, but to impose their beliefs on others through the law. Perhaps you can understand and have patience with a little backlash.