# Noose Knot Knowledge Needed... **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 22, 2010, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/noose-knot-knowledge-needed/565109 "2010-12-22T19:58:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Full\_Metal\_Lotus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/df705f/32.png) [@Full\_Metal\_Lotus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Full_Metal_Lotus)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2010, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/noose-knot-knowledge-needed/565109/1 "2010-12-22T19:58:33Z")
Hi all We got talking, in the typically christmasy way of our family, and the conversation naturally turned to hangings. Eventually, a question was asked about the elaborate knot used for nooses. The open loop, and 13 (I think) wraps style. Where and why did this originate? Obviously, just a stout rope, and a well tied loop knot would work… why the fancy tie job? Regards, And season’s greetings! ---
**Author:** ![KlondikeGeoff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3e96dc/32.png) [@KlondikeGeoff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KlondikeGeoff)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2010, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/noose-knot-knowledge-needed/565109/2 "2010-12-22T20:42:08Z")
One of my weird accomplishments is being able to tie a noose. I am sure I did not learn that in the Boy Scouts, but can’t recall where I did learn. Anyway, the purpose of the big knot (13 loops is traditional, but not necessary), is to snap the spinal cord in the neck when the body drops. It is a bit complicated, and a good hangman (hangpereson?) figures out the body weight and the length of the drop to assure an instant death. Otherwise, the victim will drop and endure a painful time being strangled. Isn’t science wonderful? BTW, don’t try this at home, kids. ---
**Author:** ![JSexton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/96bed5/32.png) [@JSexton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JSexton)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2010, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/noose-knot-knowledge-needed/565109/3 "2010-12-22T20:46:26Z")
The purpose of the knot is to allow smooth movement of the free end of the rope through the knot, something you don’t get with an ordinary slipknot. Go on, tie a slipknot in a handy piece of rope, or usb cable, or your shoelace. See how the free end bends as it passes through the knot? That impedes its progress and slows the tightening of the knot too much. ---
**Author:** ![SeldomSeen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7ba0ec/32.png) [@SeldomSeen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SeldomSeen)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2010, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/noose-knot-knowledge-needed/565109/4 "2010-12-22T23:11:13Z")
I have heard, but do not know, that a hangman’s knot will slip tight but cannot be loosened without considerable effort, in effect it “locks” in the tightened position. An ordinary slip knot will slip either way…presumably if a person survived the drop and had hands free they could pull themselves up by the rope, slip the knot back and escape or possibly be freed quickly by an accomplice. SS ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2010, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/noose-knot-knowledge-needed/565109/5 "2010-12-22T23:28:19Z")
No, the knot doesn’t lock. In fact, unlike other knots that tighten the more you pull on them, the noose doesn’t change much owing to the location of the actual “tangled” part that holds the thing together. 13 loops sounds superstitious, but it does ensure a tall, rigid coil that will run from the base of the neck to the top of the head. When the loop tightens, it pulls the throat in one direction and the coil forces the head in the opposite direction. _snap-ola_ A noose without the coils is no better than a slip knot which only tightens & strangles. ---
**Author:** ![Full\_Metal\_Lotus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/df705f/32.png) [@Full\_Metal\_Lotus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Full_Metal_Lotus)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2010, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/noose-knot-knowledge-needed/565109/6 "2010-12-23T05:22:47Z")
Ignorance fought my friends, thank you No need to hang around here anymore… Regards FML ---
**Author:** ![chacoguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/50afbb/32.png) [@chacoguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chacoguy)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2010, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/noose-knot-knowledge-needed/565109/7 "2010-12-23T05:42:12Z")
> [@Inigo\_Montoya](#): > > No, the knot doesn’t lock. In fact, unlike other knots that tighten the more you pull on them, the noose doesn’t change much owing to the location of the actual “tangled” part that holds the thing together. > > 13 loops sounds superstitious, but it does ensure a tall, rigid coil that will run from the base of the neck to the top of the head. When the loop tightens, it pulls the throat in one direction and the coil forces the head in the opposite direction. _snap-ola_ A noose without the coils is no better than a slip knot which only tightens & strangles. He’s got it. [HERE](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Official_Table_of_Drops)’s the formula. ---
**Author:** ![standingwave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9de0a6/32.png) [@standingwave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/standingwave)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2010, 6:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/noose-knot-knowledge-needed/565109/8 "2010-12-23T06:26:22Z")
where the Hangman’s knot is covered in some detail. Rather than retype all the text, I searched for a fragment and found [this excerpt](http://tafkac.org/death/hangmans_knot.html) in the alt.folklore.urban archives from 1994. (The internet’s not written in pencil, Mark. It’s written in ink.) According to the author, eight was the standard for the number of loops: It is sometimes contended that there should be **nine turns** to the Noose, so that “even if a man has as many lives as a cat, there shall be a full turn for each one of them,” and I have heard **thirteen turns** urged as the proper number on the assumption that there is some connection between bad luck and being hanged. However, I learned the knot as it is pictured here, with only eight turns, and I have found the preponderance of authority in favor of **eight turns only**. In Chapter 2 the practical use of the knot is discussed under “Hangman.” ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2010, 7:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/noose-knot-knowledge-needed/565109/9 "2010-12-23T07:38:39Z")
> [@KlondikeGeoff](#): > > Otherwise, the victim will drop and endure a painful time being strangled. And make the rope too long and… POP! Off with his head. ---
**Author:** ![medicated](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@medicated](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/medicated)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2011, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/noose-knot-knowledge-needed/565109/10 "2011-01-13T18:15:10Z")
> [@Inigo\_Montoya](#): > > No, the knot doesn’t lock. In fact, unlike other knots that tighten the more you pull on them, the noose doesn’t change much owing to the location of the actual “tangled” part that holds the thing together. > > 13 loops sounds superstitious, but it does ensure a tall, rigid coil that will run from the base of the neck to the top of the head. When the loop tightens, it pulls the throat in one direction and the coil forces the head in the opposite direction. _snap-ola_ A noose without the coils is no better than a slip knot which only tightens & strangles. Sorry to bring back a thread, but I had to comment on this. Britain didn’t use a coiled rope at all. Rather, the end of the rope was threaded through a brass eyelet. Took a while to find a picture of this, [but eventually managed](http://www.capitalpunishmentuk.org/wands%20noose.jpg). The cause of the death was the same: breaking of the neck, and not strangulation. Wouldn’t the measured drop be more important than anything else? ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2011, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/noose-knot-knowledge-needed/565109/11 "2011-01-14T15:41:27Z")
Fascinating–that looks like it was made for a high volume production. ---
**Author:** ![Lasciel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e79b87/32.png) [@Lasciel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lasciel)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2011, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/noose-knot-knowledge-needed/565109/12 "2011-01-14T16:14:31Z")
> [@Inigo\_Montoya](#): > > Fascinating–that looks like it was made for a high volume production. Jeez, I wonder ever why? I learned the 13-coil noose knot in Stagecraft. No, I have no idea why we learned to tie proper nooses in a theatre class, but there it is. I just checked on my shoelace and I can still do it. I’m sure it will come in handy for something… :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2011, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/noose-knot-knowledge-needed/565109/13 "2011-01-14T16:29:01Z")
I have heard the explanation about the coil being important somehow to the snapping of the neck (specifically, separating C1 from C2, if I recall). However I don’t see how it follows that a fatter coil would do this job better than no coil. I would classify this as myth until scientifically verified. ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2011, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/noose-knot-knowledge-needed/565109/14 "2011-01-14T16:38:14Z")
> [@Cosmic Relief](#): > > … I would classify this as myth until scientifically verified. That would make an interesting Myth Busters episode. **Jamie** : Hey Adam, I need you to help me test this… ---
**Author:** ![MPB\_in\_Salt\_Lake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c0e974/32.png) [@MPB\_in\_Salt\_Lake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MPB_in_Salt_Lake)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2011, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/noose-knot-knowledge-needed/565109/15 "2011-01-14T16:39:16Z")
> [@standingwave](#): > > I have heard **thirteen turns** urged as the proper number on the assumption that there is some connection between bad luck and being hanged. “Some” connection? ---
**Author:** ![Si\_Amigo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/si_amigo/32/2877_2.png) [@Si\_Amigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Si_Amigo)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2011, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/noose-knot-knowledge-needed/565109/16 "2011-01-14T17:40:29Z")
> [@KlondikeGeoff](#): > > One of my weird accomplishments is being able to tie a noose. I am sure I did not learn that in the Boy Scouts, but can’t recall where I did learn. I learned it in Boy Scouts; its pretty much the same knot you use to secure a [fishhook](http://www.fishingcairns.com.au/page6-1.html) with. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2011, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/noose-knot-knowledge-needed/565109/17 "2011-01-14T18:07:10Z")
[You can learn anything on the Internet.](http://www.howcast.com/videos/70-How-To-Tie-a-Hangmans-Noose-Knot) I am not sure if that is a good thing. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Omegaman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/e480ec/32.png) [@Omegaman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omegaman)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2011, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/noose-knot-knowledge-needed/565109/18 "2011-01-14T20:19:31Z")
> [@Lasciel](#): > > Jeez, I wonder ever why? > > I learned the 13-coil noose knot in Stagecraft. No, I have no idea why we learned to tie proper nooses in a theatre class, but there it is. I just checked on my shoelace and I can still do it. I’m sure it will come in handy for something… :rolleyes: I drove around with them on my rear view mirror for years. ---
**Author:** ![LouisB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dfb087/32.png) [@LouisB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LouisB)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2011, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/noose-knot-knowledge-needed/565109/19 "2011-01-14T21:06:48Z")
I’ve forgotten where I learned it but I used to be fairly proficient at it; haven’t tied one in years.