# Nootropics **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 11, 2008, 8:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nootropics/476699 "2008-12-11T08:09:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![jakesteele](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ed8c4c/32.png) [@jakesteele](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jakesteele)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2008, 8:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nootropics/476699/1 "2008-12-11T08:09:24Z")
I would like some input on “smart nutrient”. I am looking for better memory, focus, insomnia and anxiety reduction. I currently am taking ginko biloba, piracetam and choline. I don’t really know the proper dosages, combinations etc. Also, I just read about phenibut being good for anxiety and insomnia…I am really curious to get some advice and directions of this. Thanks, Jake Steele ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2008, 8:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nootropics/476699/2 "2008-12-11T08:26:44Z")
Eat moderately, exercise, and get plenty of sleep. That’ll get you further than nutritional gimmicks. ---
**Author:** ![SweetHomeColorado](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d26b3c/32.png) [@SweetHomeColorado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SweetHomeColorado)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2008, 8:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nootropics/476699/3 "2008-12-11T08:47:52Z")
hey, this reminds me of a post that I just read somewhere… Oh yeah! It’s mine that I just posted!!! ---
**Author:** ![Rusalka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecd19e/32.png) [@Rusalka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rusalka)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2008, 9:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nootropics/476699/4 "2008-12-11T09:33:55Z")
Kava kava for anxiety, St. John’s Wort (makes a delicious tea) for anxiety and depression. You could also try Valerian to help you sleep, but I hear it becomes less effective upon regular use. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2008, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nootropics/476699/5 "2008-12-11T15:39:52Z")
> [@jakesteele](#): > > I would like some input on “smart nutrient”. I am looking for better memory, focus, insomnia and anxiety reduction. > > I currently am taking ginko biloba, piracetam and choline. I don’t really know the proper dosages, combinations etc. > > Also, I just read about phenibut being good for anxiety and insomnia…I am really curious to get some advice and directions of this. > > Thanks, > > Jake Steele Do not take anything that has not had a proper clinical study of effectiveness done on it. Then take only the dosage deemed effective and the brand names used in the study. You cannot assume that any two brands will be equal in dosage, purity, or effectiveness, no matter what it says in the label. Assume that all herbal medications are scams until proven otherwise. If you don’t you will be paying large sums of money either to harm yourself or at best, get the placebo effect. ---
**Author:** ![Turble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8dc957/32.png) [@Turble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Turble)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2008, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nootropics/476699/6 "2008-12-11T16:03:22Z")
An herbal substance that actually works for increasing focus and anxiety reduction – tobacco. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2008, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nootropics/476699/7 "2008-12-11T17:00:17Z")
**Exapno** has it right, as far as I’m concerned. I assume that all herbal supplements are placebos, at best, and poisonings waiting to happen, at worst. I assume that most vitamin supplements are unnecessary at best, a waste of money at worst. Outside of prescription medication to control my diabetes and hypertension, I will at most take antihistamine or claritin-type OTC meds for my chronic sinus crap and ibuprofen for any aches or pains that are more than I can cope with sans medication. ---
**Author:** ![ZipperJJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zipperjj/32/211_2.png) [@ZipperJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZipperJJ)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2008, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nootropics/476699/8 "2008-12-11T17:05:28Z")
> [@Turble](#): > > An herbal substance that actually works for increasing focus and anxiety reduction – tobacco. What? Unless you chain smoke you’re going to feel anxious waiting for that next smoke. It just adds to anxiety. Nicotine is an “upper” not a “downer.” ---
**Author:** ![Interconnected\_Series\_of\_Tubes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/13edae/32.png) [@Interconnected\_Series\_of\_Tubes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Interconnected_Series_of_Tubes)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2008, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nootropics/476699/9 "2008-12-11T17:34:58Z")
Huh. I sporadically take [piracetam](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piracetam) and while it could be placebo effect, subjectively I _do_ notice a difference. Takes about a gram or two for me. At the least it seems to sensitize me to caffeine. Piracetam **is** used in the medical community if wikipedia’s sources are to be believed, as well as other more potent and fat-soluble analogues, to treat Alzheimer’s and dyslexia, and to preserve brain function after head injuries. There’s a 1976 article there that you can find on google, supposedly double-blinded, that suggests it enhances verbal memory. It’s also really great for curing a pot hangover. YMMV. ---
**Author:** ![Turble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8dc957/32.png) [@Turble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Turble)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2008, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nootropics/476699/10 "2008-12-11T17:35:02Z")
> [@](#): > > Research suggests that, when smokers wish to achieve a stimulating effect, they take short quick puffs, which produce a low level of blood nicotine.[20] This stimulates nerve transmission. When they wish to relax, they take deep puffs, which produce a high level of blood nicotine, which depresses the passage of nerve impulses, producing a mild sedative effect. At low doses, nicotine potently enhances the actions of norepinephrine and dopamine in the brain, causing a drug effect typical of those of psychostimulants. At higher doses, nicotine enhances the effect of serotonin and opiate activity, producing a calming, pain-killing effect. Nicotine is unique in comparison to most drugs, as its profile changes from stimulant to sedative/pain killer in increasing dosages and use. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicotine](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicotine) ---
**Author:** ![Washoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ecae2f/32.png) [@Washoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Washoe)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2008, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nootropics/476699/11 "2008-12-11T20:28:54Z")
Nicotine would be the drug of the Gods if it weren’t so insidiously addictive. I loves me some piracetam. There’s absolutely no question that it has a subtle but real anxiolytic effect, and improves my ability to multi-task. I like it even better than modafinil. Phenibut really works as an anxiolytic. It’s almost as good as a benzodiazepine. Unfortunately, it’s almost as addictive as one, too. I had to taper off the stuff over the course of several months when I decided to kick it. I’ll try to write some more later; I have an exam in a few hours. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2008, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nootropics/476699/12 "2008-12-12T04:32:35Z")
There’s a term for an herbal remedy which is known to work: “Conventional medicine”. Willow bark, for instance, really does provide relief from headaches and other general aches and pains. So what did we do? We conducted studies on all of the things in willow bark, figured out which one caused the pain relief, isolated that substance into pills with controlled dosages, and put it in bottles labeled “aspirin”. Now, there are surely many other herbal substances which are good for various things, and someday, we’ll figure them out and turn them into conventional medicine, too. But we don’t know which ones, yet, or we would have already done it. What’s more, there are also surely many herbal substances which don’t do any good, or are outright bad for you, and we don’t know which ones _those_ are, yet, either. ---
**Author:** ![brujaja](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4af34b/32.png) [@brujaja](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brujaja)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2008, 7:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nootropics/476699/13 "2008-12-12T07:40:55Z")
Oh, well said, **Chronos**! Beautiful comment. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2008, 11:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nootropics/476699/14 "2008-12-12T11:07:11Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > There’s a term for an herbal remedy which is known to work: “Conventional medicine”. Willow bark, for instance, really does provide relief from headaches and other general aches and pains. So what did we do? We conducted studies on all of the things in willow bark, figured out which one caused the pain relief, isolated that substance into pills with controlled dosages, and put it in bottles labeled “aspirin”. Which is a little too toxic for most of its benefits as an analgesic, especially when you consider the effects of long-term usage on the GI tract and the potential for Reye’s syndrome in children and adolescents. (Its benefits in low dosages as a blood thinner, however, are well worth the side effects.) That’s why conventional medicine came to the rescue again and produced ibuprofen (Advil), naproxen (Aleve), and other NSAIDs that don’t burn a hole in your gut quite so readily, as well as acetaminophen (Tylenol) (not an NSAID but still quite effective). We wouldn’t have any of these were we limited to ‘natural’ or ‘herbal’ drugs. ---
**Author:** ![Bill\_Door](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@Bill\_Door](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bill_Door)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2008, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nootropics/476699/15 "2008-12-12T12:15:52Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > There’s a term for an herbal remedy which is known to work: “Conventional medicine”. Willow bark, for instance, really does provide relief from headaches and other general aches and pains. So what did we do? We conducted studies on all of the things in willow bark, figured out which one caused the pain relief, isolated that substance into pills with controlled dosages, and put it in bottles labeled “aspirin”. > > Now, there are surely many other herbal substances which are good for various things, and someday, we’ll figure them out and turn them into conventional medicine, too. But we don’t know which ones, yet, or we would have already done it. What’s more, there are also surely many herbal substances which don’t do any good, or are outright bad for you, and we don’t know which ones _those_ are, yet, either. Well, yeah, but who is going to pay for these studies? It can cost millions in animal and human clinical trials to bring a drug to market, and what pharmaceutical company is going to invest that in something that you can grow on your window sill in a Chia garden? And the herbs cure everything folks are so certain that herbs couldn’t possibly hurt you that they’re not interested in examining possible side effects. My advice, try it, but take good notes. Maybe someday we’ll do some kind of a distributed meta-study where we examine the medical records of 10 million people on St. John’s Wort. Of course, it may triple your risk of stroke, but that’s the price of knowlege. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2008, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nootropics/476699/16 "2008-12-12T13:05:14Z")
> [@Bill\_Door](#): > > And the herbs cure everything folks are so certain that herbs couldn’t possibly hurt you that they’re not interested in examining possible side effects. Exactly. “Oh, they’re herbs! They’re natural! How could they hurt you?” So are cobra venom, poison ivy, cyanide and arsenic. How could THEY possibly hurt you? ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2008, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nootropics/476699/17 "2008-12-12T13:24:24Z")
I work in a spice store these days and people are constantly coming in to buy turmeric and cinnamon for theraputic use. They also ask me questions about it. I have to tell them to see a doctor. One day I’ll get get tired of it and tell them that dried Habanero makes a good contact lens cleaner. ---
**Author:** ![jakesteele](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ed8c4c/32.png) [@jakesteele](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jakesteele)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2008, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nootropics/476699/18 "2008-12-12T15:30:43Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > **Exapno** has it right, as far as I’m concerned. I assume that all herbal supplements are placebos, at best, and poisonings waiting to happen, at worst. I assume that most vitamin supplements are unnecessary at best, a waste of money at worst. Outside of prescription medication to control my diabetes and hypertension, I will at most take antihistamine or claritin-type OTC meds for my chronic sinus crap and ibuprofen for any aches or pains that are more than I can cope with sans medication. I appriciate your input, JayJay, but there are some things I would like to point out to you: 1. An “herb” is defined as a plant with medicinal properties; tobacco, coffee, pot, opium, cocaine, foxglove(digitalis), aspirin is derived from the bark of a certain tree. Most medicines come from a plant originally. I have been into herbs for many years and have found many of them to be efficacious to varying degrees. 2. The nutrional industry is a big business and like all other big business it exists to make money. They will try to tout the “miracle benefits” of what I call “The Herb of the Year” syndrome. Just as Excedrin aspirn has come out with their special Migraine formula which gives the impression that it is somehow better than original when it is really nothing but the same product repackaged. There is a lot of deception and hype surrounding herbs as their is OTC meds. I can tell you from experience that herbs like Cat’s Claw, a powerful astringent, is extremely beneficial for ulcers and ginko does help memory (I have been tested on two occasions before and after and have noticed marked differences). There are many other herbs that work to varying degrees with different ailments but like the latin phrase says, Caveat Emptor (let the buyer beware). Don’t be in such a hurry to throw the baby out with the bathwater, but make sure you throw all the bathwater out. ---
**Author:** ![jakesteele](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ed8c4c/32.png) [@jakesteele](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jakesteele)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2008, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nootropics/476699/19 "2008-12-12T15:46:47Z")
> [@DanBlather](#): > > I work in a spice store these days and people are constantly coming in to buy turmeric and cinnamon for theraputic use. They also ask me questions about it. I have to tell them to see a doctor. > > One day I’ll get get tired of it and tell them that dried Habanero makes a good contact lens cleaner. I’ve tried a Habanero suppository once. I felt much better afterward. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2008, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nootropics/476699/20 "2008-12-12T15:49:52Z")
> [@jakesteele](#): > > I’ve tried a Habanero suppository once. I felt much better afterward. I’ve had habanero suppositories before. Of course, it entered from the other end disguised as chili, but let me tell you, I sure didn’t feel better until it was all out… [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nootropics/476699.md?page=2)