# Norma McCorvey: I Pit Thee! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 19, 2005, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/norma-mccorvey-i-pit-thee/285602 "2005-01-19T19:54:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![beagledave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6de8d8/32.png) [@beagledave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beagledave)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2005, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/norma-mccorvey-i-pit-thee/285602/21 "2005-01-20T14:37:52Z")
> [@Blalron](#): > > Anyone who belongs to Operation Rescue is batshit crazy. Nice punt instead of addressing my point. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2005, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/norma-mccorvey-i-pit-thee/285602/22 "2005-01-20T14:43:51Z")
> [@Lissa](#): > > Does she honestly think the Justices will look at the pile of pages and say, “Gosh, look at all those signiatures. Maybe we should reconsider.” Exactly. So you have nothing to worry about. ---
**Author:** ![Jillyvn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ecb155/32.png) [@Jillyvn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jillyvn)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2005, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/norma-mccorvey-i-pit-thee/285602/23 "2005-01-20T15:28:35Z")
> [@Airman Doors](#): > > Imagine that…a pro-choice person who made a choice, and then as she gets older decides that she made the wrong choice, and now she’s being criticized for her choice by pro-choicers. > > Hypocrisy, thy name is **Boggette**. The entire point behind the pro-choice movement, as far as I’m concerned, is to allow individual women the right to decide whether they will or will not have children. In fact, many women I know have experienced emotional trauma after an abortion. However, the problem here is that she has not only regretted her choice, she has joined a movement to end the choice of all women in America. THAT is what is being pitted. Also, she didn’t have an abortion? What’s this all about then? ---
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2005, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/norma-mccorvey-i-pit-thee/285602/24 "2005-01-20T16:52:11Z")
Publicity. ---
**Author:** ![CMAR\_II](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/85e7bf/32.png) [@CMAR\_II](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CMAR_II)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2005, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/norma-mccorvey-i-pit-thee/285602/25 "2005-01-20T16:55:43Z")
> [@Fretful Porpentine](#): > > If they have cars. And can afford the money and time off work they’d need to travel (depending on the clinic’s hours and how close to the state line they live, a round trip to another state could well mean an overnight stay). Women who are well off are always going to be OK; it’s the poor who suffer from overly restrictive laws. It costs several hundred dollars to HAVE an abortion. A hotel costs $35? Ever heard of buses? It is simply radical to presume that any “barrier” (cost or otherwise) to having an abortion qualifies as grevious discrimination. > [@iamthewalrus(:3=](#): > > Until they made crossing state lines for the purposes of an abortion illegal. Then they’d just be shit out of luck. That’s a pretty far-out-there supposition. It’s not like a state could enact such a law. It would have to be done by the federal government and I’m sure states with liberal abortion laws would have something to say about that. > [@iamthewalrus(:3=](#): > > I agree that certain aspects of the political process would be better if we didn’t have to worry about possible effects on Roe v. Wade, but I wouldn’t be so cavalier about giving up a right to something. They’re really hard to get back. Nonsense. Supreme Court rulings are difficult to reverse because they require a constitutional amendment to fix (which is why it is important for judges to stick to ruling on laws rather than inventing whole new catagories of laws. Laws are relatively easy to reverse and/or tweak. Most states had rules permitting abortion in the first trimester under most circumstances in 1972. The problem is 1) that the SC’s decision prohibitted any rational tweaking of abortion regulation by states 2) that the court’s most-blatant-to-date creation of a new constitutional right out of whole cloth ensured that it would be seen as a poltical apparatus. “I need to get a judge in there that agrees with me so he will pass MY laws or to keep it from making laws I don’t like” (rather than have you congressman do it). > [@Rebekkah](#): > > Also, she didn’t have an abortion? What’s this all about then? Good point. The whole case was moot and should have been thrown out. I’d say this sounds like cause for the SC to reconsider its decision. ---
**Author:** ![TwistofFate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@TwistofFate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TwistofFate)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2005, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/norma-mccorvey-i-pit-thee/285602/26 "2005-01-20T17:05:28Z")
> [@](#): > > Good point. The whole case was moot and should have been thrown out. I’d say this sounds like cause for the SC to reconsider its decision. No, the case was about her right to choice. ---
**Author:** ![Lissa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lissa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lissa)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2005, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/norma-mccorvey-i-pit-thee/285602/27 "2005-01-20T20:15:29Z")
> [@Lord Ashtar](#): > > Exactly. So you have nothing to worry about. I never was worried. For anyone to worry about this petition accomplishing anything for the anti-choice crowd is almost as stupid as the petition itself. _Almost._ I was just marvelling at her stupidity, and the stupidity of those who signed the petition, actually thinking it was going to do something. These people have no idea how our court system works. That’s equal parts of sad, scary and relieving-- sad and scary because Americans should not be so ignorant of their own system, but relieving because as long as they’re occupied with busywork, they won’t be using legitimate means which might get them some results. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2005, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/norma-mccorvey-i-pit-thee/285602/28 "2005-01-20T20:27:47Z")
> [@Rebekkah](#): > > Also, she didn’t have an abortion? What’s this all about then? It’s been a while since I read about it, but from what I recall, in order for the case to be valid, she had to give birth, so that she could say her privacy was violated, or whatever. Perhaps one of our legal experts can explain better than I. > [@Cmar II](#): > > It’s not like a state could enact such a law. Guess again. Here in PA, it’s against the law to go outside the state in order to purchase liquor on Sundays, or something like that. I’d Pit McCorvey becaue she’s always struck me as an airhead. But that’s another story. ---
**Author:** ![Doctor\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctor_jackson/32/32_2.png) [@Doctor\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doctor_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2005, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/norma-mccorvey-i-pit-thee/285602/29 "2005-01-20T21:12:49Z")
> [@](#): > > It’s been a while since I read about it, but from what I recall, in order for the case to be valid, she had to give birth, so that she could say her privacy was violated, or whatever. Not exactly. In certain circumstances the court will allow a case to proceed even after the “cause” is no longer present. In this case it was illegal for the plaintiff to have an abortion. She decided to challenge the legality of the abortion laws through the court system. There is no way that the case could make it through to the Supreme Court before the plaintiff’s due date, and certainly not before the baby was too far along to abort, so she had no choice but to bear the baby. She then chose to give it up for adoption. The court alllowed her standing as plaintiff to remain because otherwise no woman would be able to challenge the law. I forget the legal term that applies, but some wise doper will supply it. ---
**Author:** ![Ink\_a\_dink\_a\_dink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/ec9cab/32.png) [@Ink\_a\_dink\_a\_dink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ink_a_dink_a_dink)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2005, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/norma-mccorvey-i-pit-thee/285602/30 "2005-01-20T21:27:28Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > Perhaps this is something that should be in a fresh thread. If so, I would tell my story - as would many other women, I’m sure - but I will neither start the thread nor tell it here. I am with you there, \*\* Anaamika\*\*. If/when it happens, I’d be glad to participate. Inky ---
**Author:** ![Unauthorized\_Cinnamon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/bc8723/32.png) [@Unauthorized\_Cinnamon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unauthorized_Cinnamon)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2005, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/norma-mccorvey-i-pit-thee/285602/31 "2005-01-20T21:43:12Z")
The prevention of her having an abortion was sufficient to raise the issue of her right to privacy. There \*is \* a theoretical problem that by the time the Supreme Court heard the case, it was technically moot, since she’d had the baby. However, there is a special provision allowing the SCOTUS to hear a moot case, if every example of the issue will result in mootness, because of the time it takes to litigate up to the highest court. I forget the name of the principle, but I recall \*Roe v. Wade \* being used as an example of it in 1L Constitutional Law. ---
**Author:** ![Ink\_a\_dink\_a\_dink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/ec9cab/32.png) [@Ink\_a\_dink\_a\_dink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ink_a_dink_a_dink)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2005, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/norma-mccorvey-i-pit-thee/285602/32 "2005-01-20T21:47:54Z")
> [@CMAR II](#): > > It costs several hundred dollars to HAVE an abortion… Er. Not sure where you got your info. Not correct, according to friends and memory. Inky ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2005, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/norma-mccorvey-i-pit-thee/285602/33 "2005-01-20T21:52:53Z")
> [@Ink a dink a dink](#): > > I am with you there, \*\* Anaamika\*\*. If/when it happens, I’d be glad to participate. > > Inky Please go to [Abortion Experiences](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=5743243#post5743243) ---
**Author:** ![The\_Devil\_s\_Grandmother](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/74df32/32.png) [@The\_Devil\_s\_Grandmother](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Devil_s_Grandmother)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2005, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/norma-mccorvey-i-pit-thee/285602/34 "2005-01-20T22:16:02Z")
> [@CMAR II](#): > > Finally, if the RoevWade decision were reversed tomorrow, it would not change anything initially. The state you live in would pass laws to regulate abortions and you and your fellow citizens would vote on those laws --and Norma McCorvey could not do anything about it. Some states (CA, MA, NY) would probably subsidize all abortions. _Cough_choke_splutter_ I’ve lived in California all my life and I ASSURE you, any law to give women greater access to abortion, or spend public money to do so would meet stern opposition. There are many, many conservative people in California and they vote. People who don’t live here are the ones who think California is full of hippy-dippy liberals. It’s a Big State. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Devil\_s\_Grandmother](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/74df32/32.png) [@The\_Devil\_s\_Grandmother](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Devil_s_Grandmother)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2005, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/norma-mccorvey-i-pit-thee/285602/35 "2005-01-20T22:28:57Z")
> [@CMAR II](#): > > It costs several hundred dollars to HAVE an abortion. A hotel costs $35? Ever heard of buses? It is simply radical to presume that any “barrier” (cost or otherwise) to having an abortion qualifies as grevious discrimination. Where on earth do you live? In America, the public bus system is very, very difficult and time consuming to use. Imagine a woman who is trying to obtain an abortion without letting her parents/so/friends know about it trying to gather together enough cash, get several days off work/school, find a safe place to stay in another town and get back home again. Were not the waiting periods required by some states stuck down by the courts because they presented grevious discrimination? Just as an example, it takes six hours to get from Modesto, CA to Reno, NV on Greyhound. ---
**Author:** ![Billdo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/billdo/32/315_2.png) [@Billdo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Billdo)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2005, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/norma-mccorvey-i-pit-thee/285602/36 "2005-01-20T22:52:40Z")
> [@Lissa](#): > > What boggles my mind is that she’s approaching the Supreme Court with a _petition._ For crying out loud, a _petition!_ It’s definitly going on my Goddam Dumbest Thing I’ve Ever Heard list. Golly, you must have a pretty long Goddamn Dumbest Thing list. FYI, the proper form of pleading you file with the Supreme Court when you want it to review a lower court’s decision (in this case the Fifth Circuit) is a Petition for Certorari. It’s not a paper with lots of signatures to show popular support for a proposal, but rather formal legal document requesting that Supreme Court take up a case. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2005, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/norma-mccorvey-i-pit-thee/285602/37 "2005-01-20T22:57:11Z")
> [@](#): > > But in a strongly worded concurrence, 5th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals (news - web sites) judge Edith H. Jones criticized the abortion ruling and said new medical evidence may well show undue harm to a mother and her fetus. Abortion harms the fetus? Ya don’t say. ---
**Author:** ![PinkMarabou](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ec9cab/32.png) [@PinkMarabou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PinkMarabou)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2005, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/norma-mccorvey-i-pit-thee/285602/38 "2005-01-20T23:19:01Z")
> [@grienspace](#): > > I’m still prochoice. But I sure would like to hear from other female dopers who have made the decision to abort. Have you been okay with it now that its all over? Yes, I have made the decision and yes, I am completely comfortable with it. I think about how old the child would be and what s/he may look like, but I know that “playing house” when I was still a child would have resulted in the further downward spiral of today’s society. Had I had the child, I can’t promise that it wouldn’t have emotional problems. I was not ready, I made a mistake, now I have to live with it. The excruciating pain was enough to remind me the rest of my life not to be stupid again. Abortion is never a simple decision, and I send a hearty FUCK YOU to anyone who thinks otherwise. Yes, there are women who use it as birth control, but I would venture to guess the percentages are 1% or lower, the same with abortions after the first trimester. I hate those who think that we see it as something as simple as getting your teeth cleaned, in fact don’t even say anything to me if that is how you or anyone else here feels. Don’t waste my time or yours. I would never do it again, but it was one of the best decisions I made in a long string of very bad decisions. It was the turning point of me getting my life together. The only thng I would change about the situation is I wish I had been more careful so I wouldn’t know personally what it was like. Regarding the OP, yes she is a disgrace to women and women’s rights. Fuck her. Sorry, that’s all I have to say, the woman is a bitch and I hope it haunts her the rest of her life. :mad: ---
**Author:** ![catsix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e19b73/32.png) [@catsix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/catsix)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2005, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/norma-mccorvey-i-pit-thee/285602/39 "2005-01-20T23:38:40Z")
> [@](#): > > **grienspace** said: > This woman , Norma, has now experienced a result she did not anticipate. And as much as it really sucks for her that she regrets it now, the courts and the legal system do not exist to protect us from making decisions we will later regret. That is not their job. > [@](#): > > **Guinastasia** said: > Oh, and just for the record, she never had an abortion-she gave the baby up for adoption. One can only hope that kid (who is by now an adult) never, ever knows how he or she came to be. > [@](#): > > Did you give any thought at all to the idea that her experience as a result of her initial decision might have caused her to rethink that decision? Oh I don’t think she’s necessarily a hypocrite. I think she’s got every right to regrets down the road, as we all do. I just don’t think that her personal regret is the legal basis for denial of everyone else’s rights, or that she should ever have standing for her case to be reheard. > [@](#): > > **CMAR II** said: > The state you live in would pass laws to regulate abortions and you and your fellow citizens would vote on those laws --and Norma McCorvey could not do anything about it. Wouldn’t those states that already had laws on the books banning the procedure still have those laws? The laws themselves likely still exist and were not repealed, they just can’t be _enforced_ now. So would they go back into effect upon a reversal of Roe v. Wade? > [@](#): > > **grienspace** said: > I’m still prochoice. But I sure would like to hear from other female dopers who have made the decision to abort. Have you been okay with it now that its all over? I don’t have much to say except that I believed then I was doing the right thing, and I believe it now as well. > [@](#): > > **walrus** said: > Until they made crossing state lines for the purposes of an abortion illegal. Then they’d just be shit out of luck. They’d have a hell of a time stopping it. How would they know who’s pregnant? How could they force a clinic in one state to turn over patient records simply because a woman from another state took a trip there? A system like that though just favors the people who can afford to travel and fucks over the poor, the ones who would be hardest hit by being forced to bear a child they can’t afford. ---
**Author:** ![kung\_fu\_lola](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f4b2a3/32.png) [@kung\_fu\_lola](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kung_fu_lola)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2005, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/norma-mccorvey-i-pit-thee/285602/40 "2005-01-21T01:30:12Z")
> [@Airman Doors](#): > > Imagine that…a pro-choice person who made a choice, and then as she gets older decides that she made the wrong choice, and now she’s being criticized for her choice by pro-choicers. Nope. As has already been pointed out twice, we don’t give a crap what she does (or doesn’t do) with her uterus. We object to her encroaching on **ours**. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/norma-mccorvey-i-pit-thee/285602.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/norma-mccorvey-i-pit-thee/285602.md?page=3)