# Normally, I'm opposed to regicide, but then again... **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 5, 2002, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/normally-im-opposed-to-regicide-but-then-again/140595 "2002-12-05T01:49:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2002, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/normally-im-opposed-to-regicide-but-then-again/140595/1 "2002-12-05T01:49:21Z")
[the rat bastard King of Swaziland](http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/12/03/60II/main531554.shtml) would be my top of my list of least missed monarcy. He has nine wives, he had his intended 10th (a minor) wife Zena literally kidnapped out of her school by thugs. In fact, he’s simply siezed all his wives as they caught his eye over the years. Zena’s mother wants her back. Apparently, no one has ever complained about this before. At least to the point where it was picked up by outside press. She was unable to sue the king, so she sued the thugs who kidnapped Zena on the king’s orders. The story, on 60 Minutes II, is one of those things where your jaw just drops lower and lower as the story goes on. What are the SDMB rules about advocating revolution in a pissant country where this kind of bullshit can happen? ---
**Author:** ![Neurotik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/91b2a8/32.png) [@Neurotik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neurotik)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2002, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/normally-im-opposed-to-regicide-but-then-again/140595/2 "2002-12-05T02:05:56Z")
I’ve always wondered how Swaziland never got swallowed up by South Africa. That goes for Lesotho, too. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2002, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/normally-im-opposed-to-regicide-but-then-again/140595/3 "2002-12-05T02:24:03Z")
I was wondering how anyone could possibly be opposed to [Regicide](http://tvplex.go.com/buenavista/livewithregis/personalities/regis.html) under any circumstances but then I looked up the real definition. Haj ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2002, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/normally-im-opposed-to-regicide-but-then-again/140595/4 "2002-12-05T02:27:29Z")
[tongue-in-cheek]Sounds like cultural imperialism to me. How dare you assert that your culture has more validity than that of the Swaziland-King-Gets-to-Kidnap-Young-Girls Culture? [/tongue-in-cheek] ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2002, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/normally-im-opposed-to-regicide-but-then-again/140595/5 "2002-12-05T02:35:26Z")
Can’t they get an international organization in there? UGH!!! ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2002, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/normally-im-opposed-to-regicide-but-then-again/140595/6 "2002-12-05T02:46:05Z")
Oh my god. I thought you said Switzerland…and I was wondering what South Africa had to do with it. Makes much more sense this way. But then again…you know the Swiss. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2002, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/normally-im-opposed-to-regicide-but-then-again/140595/7 "2002-12-05T03:14:26Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Bricker \* > \*\*[tongue-in-cheek]Sounds like cultural imperialism to me. How dare you assert that your culture has more validity than that of the Swaziland-King-Gets-to-Kidnap-Young-Girls Culture? > > [/tongue-in-cheek] \*\* This is one of those stories that doesn’t have “two equally vaid sides”, IMHO. Does that make me a cultural imperialist? Maybe, but in this case I’m pretty comfortable with being one. ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Girl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7bcc69/32.png) [@Mighty\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Girl)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2002, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/normally-im-opposed-to-regicide-but-then-again/140595/8 "2002-12-05T03:30:48Z")
From the CBS website: > [@](#): > > She is 33 now. She was 16 when the king chose her after he saw her at a ceremony called the reed dance, an annual event that’s one of Swaziland’s biggest traditional celebrations. Funny thing, I saw last year’s dance on BBC. They also interviewed a couple of the king’s wives. They didn’t seem to be very happy, of course I wouldn’t be myself if I only got 1/10 of the sex I am entitled to (among other things). The girl is 18, in many countries (including mine) she’s not a minor. Of course there’s still not excuse for what they did, even if she were 90 yo. I am striking Swaziland from my list of places I’d would have liked to having been born in. ---
**Author:** ![Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duck_Duck_Goose)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2002, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/normally-im-opposed-to-regicide-but-then-again/140595/9 "2002-12-05T03:57:30Z")
Just wanna point out that nobody forces them to participate in the Reed Dance. And hey, what teenage girl wouldn’t jump at the chance to become Queen of something, even if she does have to share Kingie with nine or ten other girls? Kingie’s dad had something like 150 wives. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2002, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/normally-im-opposed-to-regicide-but-then-again/140595/10 "2002-12-05T04:03:53Z")
Yah, its pretty sad. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2002, 8:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/normally-im-opposed-to-regicide-but-then-again/140595/11 "2002-12-05T08:41:24Z")
> [@](#): > > Just wanna point out that nobody forces them to participate in the Reed Dance. And hey, what teenage girl wouldn’t jump at the chance to become Queen of something, even if she does have to share Kingie with nine or ten other girls? . . . That was a joke, right? ---
**Author:** ![TwistofFate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@TwistofFate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TwistofFate)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2002, 10:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/normally-im-opposed-to-regicide-but-then-again/140595/12 "2002-12-05T10:37:27Z")
[/phone voice] You have selected _regicide_ If you know the name of the king or queen being murdered, press 1… ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_The\_Diver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ac8455/32.png) [@Buck\_The\_Diver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_The_Diver)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2002, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/normally-im-opposed-to-regicide-but-then-again/140595/13 "2002-12-05T14:52:24Z")
[Mel Brooks] It’s good to be the king! [/Mel Brooks] ---
**Author:** ![Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duck_Duck_Goose)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2002, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/normally-im-opposed-to-regicide-but-then-again/140595/14 "2002-12-05T15:32:20Z")
Miller: No, it’s not a joke. I was following the story extensively earlier this fall on another message board, looked up a lot of BBC and CNN links, I didn’t see anything anywhere that suggested that any of those 20,000 teenagers who dance every year are being forced to sign up and dance naked in front of their King. Not the slightest hint or faintest suggestion of it. If you’ve got a cite that says otherwise, I’d be mighty interested in seeing it. Reading between the lines, it looks to me like what really happened was that this year the King chose three girls out of the lineup, took them all back to the palace, but that only one got to be the actual, official, Queen of 2002, and the mother filing the lawsuit is the mother of one of the two also-rans. All her daughter got was a bed in the palace, no official recognition, so she’s pissed. ---
**Author:** ![Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duck_Duck_Goose)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2002, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/normally-im-opposed-to-regicide-but-then-again/140595/15 "2002-12-05T15:39:52Z")
And since I am the proud parent of two teenage girls, I believe I am in a position to state authoritatively that yes, many teenage girls would jump at the chance to be Queen of something, even if they had to share Prince Charming with 150 other girls. I mean, geez, how else do they manage to get 20,000 girls to show up for this every year? You can’t tell me that they’re all out there dancing just for the cardiovascular workout. It’s a theater cattle call, Swazi style. The Swazi girls are just as ambitious as the girls who show up to audition for _The Producers_ on Broadway. The only difference is that the Swaziland audition is more up-front about sex being an integral part of the package. ---
**Author:** ![Legomancer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/779978/32.png) [@Legomancer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Legomancer)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2002, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/normally-im-opposed-to-regicide-but-then-again/140595/16 "2002-12-05T17:10:36Z")
I thought this thread was going to be about that assmaster, King Vitamin. ---
**Author:** ![cichlidiot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f9b8f/32.png) [@cichlidiot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cichlidiot)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2002, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/normally-im-opposed-to-regicide-but-then-again/140595/17 "2002-12-05T19:25:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Duck Duck Goose \* > \*\*Reading between the lines, it looks to me like what really happened was that this year the King chose three girls out of the lineup, took them all back to the palace, but that only one got to be the actual, official, Queen of 2002, and the mother filing the lawsuit is the mother of one of the two also-rans. All her daughter got was a bed in the palace, no official recognition, so she’s pissed. \*\* The 60 Minutes II program referred to in the OP didn’t show it that way. Witnesses stated when Zena was taken from the school, she was fighting to not be put in the car. It was also stated she had a boyfriend at the time. I wondered about her attending the reed dance as well, they didn’t elaborate on her reasons for being there, other than stating it was the first one she had attended. Her mother stated she had chatted with the King on the phone and expressed to her (mother) she wasn’t interested. They became worried and left the country. The mother was informed by someone (I can’t remember who) in the king’s entourage that Zena was not qualified to be a queen, as she is a twin. They returned and then Zena was abducted. The king tried to block the case from going to court and the judges refused. The story ended with the mother basically giving up, once she saw Zena in public as officially betrothed to the king. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2002, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/normally-im-opposed-to-regicide-but-then-again/140595/18 "2002-12-06T01:46:54Z")
The girl went to the reed dance with her boyfriend, correct? It seems like a big time social event. It’s sick. I hope his wives are plotting behind his back. What a jerk! ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2002, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/normally-im-opposed-to-regicide-but-then-again/140595/19 "2002-12-06T03:02:53Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Duck Duck Goose_ > Miller: No, it’s not a joke. I was following the story extensively earlier this fall on another message board, looked up a lot of BBC and CNN links, I didn’t see anything anywhere that suggested that any of those 20,000 teenagers who dance every year are being forced to sign up and dance naked in front of their King. Not the slightest hint or faintest suggestion of it. If you’ve got a cite that says otherwise, I’d be mighty interested in seeing it. Well, color me appalled and massivly disappointed, **DDG**. 30,000 girls go to this “reed dance” thing. There are only about 1.1 million people in Swaziland, so 30,000 must represent a significant portion of the teenaged girls in the country. Clearly, it’s a major cultural event in Swaziland. Yes, they dance naked. And no, nobody forced them to dance naked. And if the OP were a rant about how thousands of innocent girls in southern Africa were forced to dance naked, that might actually be a relevant point. But the rant here is that, after the dance, this girl was kidnapped from her school, seperated from her friends and family, and forced to prostitute herself to the local autocrat. And I don’t see anything about girls at this reed dance thing agreeing to any of that. I do see them participating in an activity that I assume is important to their culture and which _gasp_ has differing standards of modesty than found in most Christian societies! It’s fucking hot in Africa. I’m not surprised that they’re more casual about nudity than we are. How you can extrapolate from this that the girls were **hoping** to be kidnapped and forced into marriage with a man they’ve never even met is astonishing and disgusting. Are you also of the opinion that women who wear tight clothes are asking to be raped? > [@](#): > > Reading between the lines, it looks to me like what really happened was that this year the King chose three girls out of the lineup, took them all back to the palace, but that only one got to be the actual, official, Queen of 2002, and the mother filing the lawsuit is the mother of one of the two also-rans. All her daughter got was a bed in the palace, no official recognition, so she’s pissed. Are we talking about the same story here? She’s officially his fiance. She doesn’t become his wife until he knocks her up. The previous king had over a hundred wives. It’s not a case of “either/or”, it’s “as many as he can get his hands on.” > [@](#): > > And since I am the proud parent of two teenage girls, I believe I am in a position to state authoritatively that yes, many teenage girls would jump at the chance to be Queen of something, even if they had to share Prince Charming with 150 other girls. Are you saying here that your two daughters would gladly sleep with a guy they barely know if he had a lot of money and/or power? :eek: > [@](#): > > I mean, geez, how else do they manage to get 20,000 girls to show up for this every year? You can’t tell me that they’re all out there dancing just for the cardiovascular workout. No, I’m guessing they’re there to dance. That’s why most people go to dances, right? > [@](#): > > It’s a theater cattle call, Swazi style. The Swazi girls are just as ambitious as the girls who show up to audition for _The Producers_ on Broadway. The only difference is that the Swaziland audition is more up-front about sex being an integral part of the package. Yeah, except that when you audition for _The Producers_, it’s not for the rest of your fucking life! And when the director tells you to drop your skirt and spread 'em, you’ve actually got the option of saying “no”. I’m genuinely nauseated by you position in this thread, **DDG** , and hugely disappointed to see if coming from a poster I’ve previously had an immense amount of respect for. You say you read some other cites about this. I’d like to see 'em, and they’d better be pretty goddamned impressive, because from the links I’ve seen so far to this story, your attitude in unforgivable. ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Maximino](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e95f7d/32.png) [@Mighty\_Maximino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Maximino)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2002, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/normally-im-opposed-to-regicide-but-then-again/140595/20 "2002-12-06T03:13:13Z")
Yeah, the king of Swaziland is a [real bastard](http://www.news24.com/News24/Africa/News/0,1113,2-11-1447_1294103,00.html) in other ways as well. I’ve got to weigh in with **Miller** here, **DDG** – are you reading the same articles as everyone else? 'Cuz it sure doesn’t seem like she was interested in being the king’s wife. Especially how she told him over the phone that she wasn’t interested, and all. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/normally-im-opposed-to-regicide-but-then-again/140595.md?page=2)