# Norman Spinrad predicted trump **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [February 5, 2020, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/norman-spinrad-predicted-trump/847521 "2020-02-05T03:01:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![E-DUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/e-dub/32/403_2.png) [@E-DUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-DUB)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2020, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/norman-spinrad-predicted-trump/847521/1 "2020-02-05T03:01:47Z")
For those of you unfamiliar with Norman Spinrad he is a science fiction author most widely known as the writer of the classic Star Trek episode “The Doomsday Machine”, as well as books far too numerous to be listed here. In the eighties he wrote a book review column for “Destinies”, an unusual experiment in publishing. Destines was a “paperback magazine”, a periodical published in paperback book format. I just obtained, through an online source (other than amazon), the only issue I was missing from my library. In a review of a novel called “The Hell Candidate” by Thomas Luke, Spinrad wrote the following: “I have lately mused that a Presidential candidate crazy and ruthless enough to spout unadulterated racism, class warfare from the point of view of the middle class, up-front jingoism, gibbering hydrophobic anti-communism, military solutions to the energy crisis and other complex foreign policy dilemmas, sexual license, and atavistic nostalgia for the American supremacy of the Eisenhower era—to appeal, in other words, to the dark cravings and frustrations of the current mass unconscious—would sweep all before him and ride to the White House on a tidal wave of bile and hate, exactly as Hitler got himself _elected_ Fuehrer of Germany.” This written in 1981. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2020, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/norman-spinrad-predicted-trump/847521/2 "2020-02-05T03:10:58Z")
Eh, it’s been predicted since the OG fascists were around. This has always been a risk lurking within the system. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2020, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/norman-spinrad-predicted-trump/847521/3 "2020-02-15T05:20:39Z")
Trump doesn’t seem to care about Communism. On the other hand, Nostradamus made this prediction: “The false trumpet concealing madness, will cause Byzantium to change its laws.” Obvious Trump reference. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2020, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/norman-spinrad-predicted-trump/847521/4 "2020-02-15T05:33:42Z")
Yeah, Bigfoot told me about Trump. (:)) ---
**Author:** ![pool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pool/32/4152_2.png) [@pool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pool)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2020, 5:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/norman-spinrad-predicted-trump/847521/5 "2020-02-15T05:47:52Z")
Eh, Richard Nixon, well really his wife Pat predicted Donald Trump would be elected president by name, way back in 1987. Richard Nixon even sent Trump a letter about it. [https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/nixon-predicted-trump-success/](https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/nixon-predicted-trump-success/) ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2020, 6:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/norman-spinrad-predicted-trump/847521/6 "2020-02-15T06:50:52Z")
Didn’t the Simpson’s show predict Trump as potus? ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2020, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/norman-spinrad-predicted-trump/847521/7 "2020-02-15T15:56:17Z")
He didn’t sweep all before him or ride into a tidal wave into the white house, he BARELY squeaked by the skin of his teeth against a very unpopular opponent. ---
**Author:** ![E-DUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/e-dub/32/403_2.png) [@E-DUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-DUB)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2020, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/norman-spinrad-predicted-trump/847521/8 "2020-02-15T16:10:52Z")
He did sweep pretty thoroughly on the Republican side. ---
**Author:** ![dasmoocher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2020, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/norman-spinrad-predicted-trump/847521/9 "2020-02-15T16:14:33Z")
> [@Beckdawrek](#): > > Didn’t the Simpson’s show predict Trump as potus? [Bart to the Future](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bart_to_the_Future) > [@](#): > > while Lisa has become the President of the United States and tries to get the country out of financial trouble. > > … > > The episode attracted renewed attention in the events leading up to the 2016 presidential election, because of a reference to the presidency of Donald Trump. > > … > > The episode mentions that real estate mogul and millionaire Donald Trump became president, and caused a budget crisis that Lisa inherits. In 2015, news media cited the episode as a foreshadowing of Trump’s future run for president;[16] the episode was produced during Trump’s 2000 third-party run. Dan Greaney told The Hollywood Reporter in a 2016 interview that the thought of a Trump presidency at the time “just seemed like the logical last stop before hitting bottom. It was pitched because it was consistent with the vision of America going insane.” The episode also got the fact that a President Trump would leave the next President with huge debts correct. ---
**Author:** ![74westy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/74westy/32/3950_2.png) [@74westy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/74westy)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2020, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/norman-spinrad-predicted-trump/847521/10 "2020-02-15T19:53:19Z")
The Doomsday Machine was one of my favourite episodes. The idea was floating around in [Social Science circles in the early eighties](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friendly_Fascism_(book)). > [@Bertram Gross](#): > > The next wave of fascists will not come with cattle cars and concentration camps, but they’ll come with a smiley face and maybe a TV show… That’s how the 21st-century fascists will essentially take over. ---
**Author:** ![RioRico](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f04885/32.png) [@RioRico](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RioRico)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2020, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/norman-spinrad-predicted-trump/847521/11 "2020-02-15T20:16:03Z")
In 1953 Heinlein predicted Tramp in REVOLT IN 2100 with Nehemiah Scudder as First Prophet. Close enough. ---
**Author:** ![Dale\_Sams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/779978/32.png) [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2020, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/norman-spinrad-predicted-trump/847521/12 "2020-02-15T20:24:57Z")
> [@74westy](#): > > \*\*The Doomsday Machine was one of my favourite episodes. > \*\* > The idea was floating around in [Social Science circles in the early eighties](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friendly_Fascism_(book)). So good. One thing never mentioned are the sound effects. The transporter screwing up…or the score…so good. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2020, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/norman-spinrad-predicted-trump/847521/13 "2020-02-15T21:15:42Z")
Hell, Plato predicted Trump. A glad handing authoritarian who appeals to popular resentments against an out of touch elite is practically a feature of a system where leaders are voted into office. ---
**Author:** ![dasmoocher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2020, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/norman-spinrad-predicted-trump/847521/14 "2020-02-15T22:11:34Z")
Also, [Teddy Roosevelt over a 100 years ago](https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Citizenship_in_a_Republic?fbclid=IwAR0JZylOfqAqq4xO-t7hpJJas8bhW3BKZSZ7PDQJ3r50WxYlQYz6ffWej9o): > [@](#): > > "Of one man in especial, beyond any one else, the citizens of a republic should beware, and that is of the man who appeals to them to support him on the ground that he is hostile to other citizens of the republic, that he will secure for those who elect him, in one shape or another, profit at the expense of other citizens of the republic. It makes no difference whether he appeals to class hatred or class interest, to religious or antireligious prejudice. The man who makes such an appeal should always be presumed to make it for the sake of furthering his own interest. The very last thing an intelligent and self-respecting member of a democratic community should do is to reward any public man because that public man says that he will get the private citizen something to which this private citizen is not entitled, or will gratify some emotion or animosity which this private citizen ought not to possess. > > … > > Now, the same principle which applies in private life applies also in public life. If a public man tries to get your vote by saying that he will do something wrong in your interest, you can be absolutely certain that if ever it becomes worth his while he will do something wrong against your interest." ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2020, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/norman-spinrad-predicted-trump/847521/15 "2020-02-15T22:27:16Z")
Wow, this guy’s a real Nostradamus. Seriously. If someone didn’t actually say, “This guy Donald Trump is going to be president one day,” I’m not going to count that as a prediction of Trump. ---
**Author:** ![don\_t\_ask](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@don\_t\_ask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_t_ask)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2020, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/norman-spinrad-predicted-trump/847521/16 "2020-02-15T22:32:09Z")
[2 Timothy 3](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2+Timothy+3&version=ESV) > [@](#): > > But understand this, that in the last days there will come times of difficulty. 2 For people will be lovers of self, lovers of money, proud, arrogant, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, 3 heartless, unappeasable, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not loving good, 4 treacherous, reckless, swollen with conceit, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, 5 having the appearance of godliness, but denying its power. Avoid such people. ---
**Author:** ![RioRico](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f04885/32.png) [@RioRico](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RioRico)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2020, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/norman-spinrad-predicted-trump/847521/17 "2020-02-15T23:03:22Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Wow, this guy’s a real Nostradamus. Seriously. If someone didn’t actually say, “This guy Donald Trump is going to be president one day,” I’m not going to count that as a prediction of Trump. The _type_ is too easy to predict. Some lying SOB (likely not a DOB) promises the world, castigates the [insert target names], waves arms and shouts a lot, and BINGO! Stock markets run on greed and fear. Politics seems similar. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2020, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/norman-spinrad-predicted-trump/847521/18 "2020-02-15T23:10:34Z")
I guess to me, any time there is multiculturalism or economic setbacks, it is going to empower fascists. What we have to do is have enough checks and balances, and make sure the electorate is large and diverse enough to hold back the worst of it. If only property owning white men were allowed to vote, we’d have someone far worse than trump. And I’m a white man, but its true. The more out groups and disadvantaged people who are allowed to vote, the less tolerant the electorate becomes of fascism. Luckily the electorate is 70% women and non-whites, so the caliber of fascist that society will tolerate is far less intense. We need to get as many people to vote as possible, especially women and non-whites who are less tolerant of fascism. Also we have checks and balances. that is why domestic terrorism isn’t as bad as it was in the 1920s or the 1860s. Also state judges who refuse to uphold the law can be overruled by federal judges. I guess its a silver lining, that if this is fascism, its nowhere near as bad as it would be a century ago. ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2020, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/norman-spinrad-predicted-trump/847521/19 "2020-02-16T01:10:05Z")
> [@E-DUB](#): > > “I have lately mused that a Presidential candidate crazy and ruthless enough to spout unadulterated racism, class warfare from the point of view of the middle class, up-front jingoism, gibbering hydrophobic anti-communism, military solutions to the energy crisis and other complex foreign policy dilemmas, sexual license, and atavistic nostalgia for the American supremacy of the Eisenhower era—to appeal, in other words, to the dark cravings and frustrations of the current mass unconscious—would sweep all before him and ride to the White House on a tidal wave of bile and hate, exactly as Hitler got himself _elected_ Fuehrer of Germany.” > > This written in 1981. The description is the, how can I put this? “logical extension to the absurd” of Reagan. By that, I mean, if you take Reagan, and extend all the terrible things he did to get elected, like pandering to the Christian right, while actually sharing none of their beliefs, but conveniently promising to support them, and inventing things like “trickle-down” economics that sounded OK to crowds worked up into a froth, but really didn’t make a damned bit of sense. Reagan turned a huge block of loyal Democrats like no one’s business, and got Christians, who had previously stayed out of politics, going to polls in droves. His base could crush Trump’s to dust. The best thing you can say about Reagan is that at the beginning of his first term, he was nowhere near as batshit as Trump (albeit, he was probably well in the throes of Alzheimer’s by the end of term two, which is why higher ups in the party dropped the issue of repealing the 22nd amendment like it was radioactive, sometime around 1986). But anyway, a writer like Spinrad is quite capable of looking at Reagan and saying “If we keep going with men like this we are going to lose democracy.” I was a freshman in high school 80-81, and I had exactly the same misgivings: If Reagan was a prototype of a new president, and each next one was worse, there would be more division, more general fucked-uppityness. Sure, He appointed a woman to the supreme court but as long as she served she was a party player-- except fortunately on the question of the hour. She would not vote to outlaw abortion altogether. ---
**Author:** ![Lamoral](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lamoral/32/16078_2.png) [@Lamoral](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamoral)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2020, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/norman-spinrad-predicted-trump/847521/20 "2020-02-16T01:37:32Z")
> [@](#): > > “I have lately mused that a Presidential candidate crazy and ruthless enough to spout unadulterated racism No…Trump’s racism is very much adulterated. If he was spouting unadulterated racism, he wouldn’t constantly be going on and on about how he’s been reducing African-American and Hispanic-American unemployment and paying lip service to the idea of helping minorities. Unadulterated racism is the “literally Hitler” kind of racism. > [@](#): > > class warfare from the point of view of the middle class, No…Trump has not been spouting this. I don’t even know what it means. > [@](#): > > up-front jingoism Yes, he fits this one. > [@](#): > > gibbering hydrophobic anti-communism No…although communism and anti-communism were obviously more of an issue when Spinrad wrote this than they are today. > [@](#): > > military solutions to the energy crisis and other complex foreign policy dilemmas Uh…no. > [@](#): > > sexual license Yes on this one - perhaps the most insightful and forward thinking of Spinrad’s prediction, in fact, since authoritarian rulers are traditionally more associated with sexual repression. > [@](#): > > and atavistic nostalgia for the American supremacy of the Eisenhower era I think virtually ALL American politicians are guilty of this. > [@](#): > > —to appeal, in other words, to the dark cravings and frustrations of the current mass unconscious I don’t think there’s anything “unconscious” about either Trump’s support or the cravings and frustrations of the American electorate. > [@](#): > > —would sweep all before him and ride to the White House on a tidal wave of bile and hate, exactly as Hitler got himself _elected_ Fuehrer of Germany.” Hitler wasn’t elected solely on a tidal wave of bile and hate; this is only a perspective of hindsight. His supporters at the time thought that he had a bold and ambitious and optimistic vision for the future of Germany and that he represented exciting progress for society. So…I’m going to have to go with “flawed”, at best, to describe Spinrad’s prediction. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/norman-spinrad-predicted-trump/847521.md?page=2)