# north american primates **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 28, 2001, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-american-primates/70399 "2001-06-28T01:04:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![vl\_mungo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc8723/32.png) [@vl\_mungo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vl_mungo)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2001, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-american-primates/70399/1 "2001-06-28T01:04:29Z")
So I was wondering… is there any evidence of there having been primates etc. in North America at any time? Seems to me, that they are pretty adaptable creatures, but they’re mostly restricted to tropical or semi-tropical areas. On the other hand, trees don’t appear to be entirely necessary for them as evidenced by baboons (babboons?), and those Japanese snow monkeys indicate that temperature is not a restriction. So how come there are no primates in NA when there are some in Mexico? I guess Europe also doesn’t have any either. What’s up with that? ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2001, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-american-primates/70399/2 "2001-06-28T01:20:55Z")
There were lemur-like primates in Wyoming back in the Eocene, but that was when it was tropical. There are a (very) few non-human primates in Europe, the Barbary “Apes” (Macaques) that live on the Rock of Gibralter. Primates do seem to have been mostly tropical through most of their geological history, with very minor colonization of the temperate zones. It’s mere happenstance that the ones that currently live in temperate areas happen to be in the Old World rather than the New. ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2001, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-american-primates/70399/3 "2001-06-28T01:28:43Z")
Actually there are extensive populations of primates in both North America and Europe–over 300 million in North America, and over 700 million in Europe. But that’s probably not what you meant. ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2001, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-american-primates/70399/4 "2001-06-28T01:30:22Z")
> [@](#): > > is there any evidence of there having been primates etc. in North America at any time? Current population numbers in the hundreds of millions. There are areas so thoroughly infested with homo sap that there’s scarcely anything else to be found. What? OK, OK, I’ll leave peacefully… ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2001, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-american-primates/70399/5 "2001-06-28T01:32:47Z")
Dammit Buckner! Just had to say it first, huh? ---
**Author:** ![Arken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dfb087/32.png) [@Arken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arken)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2001, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-american-primates/70399/6 "2001-06-28T01:53:11Z")
And, if the legends are to be believed, a handull of sasquatch. ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2001, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-american-primates/70399/7 "2001-06-28T02:22:56Z")
> [@](#): > > Dammit Buckner! Just had to say it first, huh? Dominance hierarchies are common among social primates. > [@](#): > > And, if the legends are to be believed, a handull of sasquatch. Well, I think we’d have to prove it exists before we can try to classify it. ---
**Author:** ![Arken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dfb087/32.png) [@Arken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arken)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2001, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-american-primates/70399/8 "2001-06-28T03:09:38Z")
Obviously, you haven’t seen Robin Williams without his shirt on. What more proof do you need? ---
**Author:** ![Homer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/df788c/32.png) [@Homer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Homer)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2001, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-american-primates/70399/9 "2001-06-28T03:09:59Z")
Weren’t the apes of Gibraltar the only upright apes beyond us and our closest relatives? –Tim ---
**Author:** ![Jorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9fc29f/32.png) [@Jorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jorge)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2001, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-american-primates/70399/10 "2001-06-28T03:16:28Z")
No. Witness Tom DeLay. QED ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2001, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-american-primates/70399/11 "2001-06-28T03:25:21Z")
> [@](#): > > Weren’t the apes of Gibraltar the only upright apes beyond us and our closest relatives? Barbary apes are tailless, but they aren’t bipedal. (I mean, it wouldn’t suprise me if they get up on their hind legs for a bit, but I don’t think it’s their habitual form of locomotion.) As far as I know, the only bipedal primates have been the ones in the Family _Hominidae_, and we’re the only living hominids. Here’s an [article](http://www.nytimes.com/books/first/b/boaz-eco.html) from the New York times that discusses (at least in passing) the disappearance of primates from North America, by the way. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2001, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-american-primates/70399/12 "2001-06-28T03:31:13Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by vl\_mungo \* > **So how come there are no primates in NA when there are some in Mexico?** I’ve got news for you, Mexico is _in_ North America. ---
**Author:** ![Homer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/df788c/32.png) [@Homer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Homer)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2001, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-american-primates/70399/13 "2001-06-28T05:11:07Z")
Here’s something on [Bonobos](http://www.wf.carleton.ca/Museum/aquatic/wat5.htm). But here’s what I was really thinking of, [Oreopithecus Babolii](http://www.discover.com/cover_story/ape.html). –Tim ---
**Author:** ![Fiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e274bd/32.png) [@Fiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiver)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2001, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-american-primates/70399/14 "2001-06-28T13:30:12Z")
Wait, wait, wait…the Barbary “apes” are tailless? But I thought they were really monkeys, and that all monkeys have tails. As Rusted Root would sing, it’s the simian way. ---
**Author:** ![Floater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/dc4da7/32.png) [@Floater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Floater)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2001, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-american-primates/70399/15 "2001-06-28T14:03:51Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Fiver \* > \*\*Wait, wait, wait…the Barbary “apes” are tailless? But I thought they were really monkeys, and that all monkeys have tails. As Rusted Root would sing, it’s the simian way. \*\* I think this answers your question: \*… Barbary apes are monkeys of the Macaque family, but were called apes because they have a very small tail, which can be seen only when the animal is handled. … \* Quote from www.wildlife2000.com/animals/barbary-ape.htm. (Although I couldn’t get in there at the moment.) ---
**Author:** ![Fiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e274bd/32.png) [@Fiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiver)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2001, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-american-primates/70399/16 "2001-06-28T16:27:04Z")
**Floater** > [@](#): > > they have a very small tail, which can be seen only when the animal is handled. … And just who “handled” these animals to find that out? Paula Poundstone, maybe? ---
**Author:** ![Reemul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e274bd/32.png) [@Reemul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reemul)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2001, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-american-primates/70399/17 "2001-06-28T17:33:17Z")
There have in fact been primates in North America in the distant past. An older group called the Adapids existed in North America and Europe in the Eocene,roughly 55 to 38 million years ago. Adapids resembly living lemurs in terms of size and morphology. Close to 20 genera have been described from North America. Modern lemurs are a considered a sister group to the Adapidae. The Omomyidae were another group from the Eocene, common in North America, Europe and Asia, with again about 20 genera so far in NA. This group is considered basal to modern day Tarsiers. The Platyrrhini are the modern day South American monkeys. Their origin is up for debate, as there is no fossil record for basal primates in South America. There are no fossils of anthropoids (modern type primates) in North America. It is not believed that New World monkeys (primates from South and Central America) originated in South America partly because of this. The earliest known fossil is from the late Oligocene (between 30 and 25 million years ago) in Bolivia. ---
**Author:** ![Neurodoc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/848f3c/32.png) [@Neurodoc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neurodoc)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2001, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-american-primates/70399/18 "2001-06-30T04:05:35Z")
Ameripithicus clintonis, subspecies oralofornicus. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2001, 9:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-american-primates/70399/19 "2001-06-30T09:29:47Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Fiver \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > they have a very small tail, which can be seen only when the animal is handled. … > > And just who “handled” these animals to find that out? Paula Poundstone, maybe? \*\* I have handled a barbary ape. Or more accurately, I have been handled by a barbary ape. They are pretty tame, since they thrive on (illegal) handouts from tourists and taxi drivers. I didn’t know how tame they were until I saw one sitting on the hood of a car and went in for a closer look. I get within a couple of feet, and the damn thing reaches out its arms in the universal “Hold me!” gesture. I move a little closer, and he climbs right onto my shoulder. Then he settles in and starts “grooming” me. I got a too-close view of his tail. Or lack thereof. On another visit, one of the critters ran up my female companion’s leg and onto her back. She freaked at first, but then thought it was cute. And while she was grinning at how cute it was, the beast was ransacking her backpack. Made off with a chocolate bar.