# North American Union - reality or crazy conspiracy theory? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 21, 2007, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-american-union-reality-or-crazy-conspiracy-theory/408920 "2007-06-21T23:06:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2007, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-american-union-reality-or-crazy-conspiracy-theory/408920/1 "2007-06-21T23:06:58Z")
A lot of right-wing conspiracy theorists are talking about the [North American Union](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_Union). According to them, the United States, Canada, and Mexico are orchestrating a European-style union with open borders, common currency (the [amero](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amero)), and close political ties. I’m not one to believe in conspiracy theories, so I would normally write this off. But government pages such as [this](http://www.spp.gov/) makes me wonder. Thoughts? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2007, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-american-union-reality-or-crazy-conspiracy-theory/408920/2 "2007-06-21T23:15:51Z")
Considering we already have NAFTA, the idea is not incredible. But why would it involve any “conspiracy”? And why would such a union require a new unit of currency? Seems to me it would make more sense for Canada and Mexico to use the U.S. dollar. In any case, any union involving an open border between the U.S. and Mexico, with no green cards required for Mexican citizens to work here (which is what they have in the EU – any citizen of any member country can work in any other member country without securing permission), would be politically impossible in the current American climate. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2007, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-american-union-reality-or-crazy-conspiracy-theory/408920/3 "2007-06-21T23:43:47Z")
I’d be freaked out about this if I was Canadian. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2007, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-american-union-reality-or-crazy-conspiracy-theory/408920/4 "2007-06-21T23:50:30Z")
[QUOTE=Larry Borgia] I’d be freaked out about this if I was Canadian. [/QUOTE] Why? How would Canada be worse off than it is now? ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2007, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-american-union-reality-or-crazy-conspiracy-theory/408920/5 "2007-06-21T23:52:16Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] Why? How would Canada be worse off than it is now? [/QUOTE] _ **Really** _ lousy medical care. Also, the US would want _ **everything** _ its own way. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Renob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8c91f0/32.png) [@Renob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Renob)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2007, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-american-union-reality-or-crazy-conspiracy-theory/408920/6 "2007-06-21T23:52:28Z")
[QUOTE=Larry Borgia] I’d be freaked out about this if I was Canadian. [/QUOTE] The ten people up North in America, Jr., will do what we tell them. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2007, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-american-union-reality-or-crazy-conspiracy-theory/408920/7 "2007-06-22T00:28:46Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] Why? How would Canada be worse off than it is now? [/QUOTE] It was a joke. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2007, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-american-union-reality-or-crazy-conspiracy-theory/408920/8 "2007-06-22T00:40:49Z")
Personally I look forward to seeing labels proudly marked, “Made in the heartland of America: Mexico”. Marc ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2007, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-american-union-reality-or-crazy-conspiracy-theory/408920/9 "2007-06-22T00:45:45Z")
[QUOTE=Bosda Di’Chi of Tricor] _ **Really** _ lousy medical care. Also, the US would want _ **everything** _ its own way. :smack: [/QUOTE] Yeah, the U.S. medical care system is so terrible, rich people from all over the world come here for treatment! What makes you think that a North American Union would require all three member states have the same health care system? I’m no expert on the EU, but it was my impression that the UK and say, Poland; have vastly different health care systems. As for the second part, that does tend to be a bit of a problem in the EU, with some member States complaining France and Germany wield too much power. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2007, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-american-union-reality-or-crazy-conspiracy-theory/408920/10 "2007-06-22T00:51:59Z")
[QUOTE=Larry Borgia] It was a joke. [/QUOTE] Ah. Well, I don’t feel too bad about being whooshed. As I understand it, “America: Threat or Menace?” is a common topic in Canadian radio talk shows, IRL. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2007, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-american-union-reality-or-crazy-conspiracy-theory/408920/11 "2007-06-22T00:53:01Z")
[QUOTE=Martin Hyde] Yeah, the U.S. medical care system is so terrible, **rich** people from all over the world come here for treatment! [/QUOTE] You have just illustrated exactly what is wrong with the American health care system. Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2007, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-american-union-reality-or-crazy-conspiracy-theory/408920/12 "2007-06-22T01:21:46Z")
**FTL Newsfeed** ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2007, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-american-union-reality-or-crazy-conspiracy-theory/408920/13 "2007-06-22T01:26:13Z")
[QUOTE=alphaboi867] **FTL Newsfeed** [/QUOTE] Did you mean to put a link there? ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2007, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-american-union-reality-or-crazy-conspiracy-theory/408920/14 "2007-06-22T01:31:30Z")
[QUOTE=Martin Hyde] Yeah, the U.S. medical care system is so terrible, rich people from all over the world come here for treatment! [/QUOTE] **Rich** people. America has great medical care - if you are rich. If you are poor, you’re lucky if we treat you as well as we would a dog - you’ll certainly get less sympathy than a dog. > [@](#): > > What makes you think that a North American Union would require all three member states have the same health care system? Because America would demand it. That’s one reason such a union is politically unworkable;. America does not compromise, does not tolerate. You do things our way, period. We would treat Mexico and Canada exactly as if we had conquered them. Why would anyone want to be subsumed into us like that ? ---
**Author:** ![Priam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/77aa72/32.png) [@Priam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Priam)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2007, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-american-union-reality-or-crazy-conspiracy-theory/408920/15 "2007-06-22T01:45:15Z")
I think **Der Trihs** hits upon the meat of the problem, even with the usual brand of hyperbole: a stable union would require multiple poles of power within. If Mexico and Canada merged with the USA, it would indeed be a complete merger. We hold too many cards in the deck, and even united they don’t have the capacity to stand up to us if we truly dug in. It is quite likely that an economic union will happen in the near future, but that is only because all countries see some benefit in it. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2007, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-american-union-reality-or-crazy-conspiracy-theory/408920/16 "2007-06-22T01:51:43Z")
The OP’s cite is nothing more than a report from a think tank. Think tanks throw around reports about wild ideas all the time. I mean, that’s what they’re for. There’s no “conspiracy” here, or, really, much at all. [QUOTE=BrainGlutton] Why? How would Canada be worse off than it is now? [/QUOTE] If iut went too far, we’d be a small part of an inferior country than what we have now, of course. You asked. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2007, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-american-union-reality-or-crazy-conspiracy-theory/408920/17 "2007-06-22T02:05:46Z")
Hey, it’s not a bad idea. It would solve most of the immigration “problem”. Who worries about immigration between the several states? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2007, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-american-union-reality-or-crazy-conspiracy-theory/408920/18 "2007-06-22T02:15:27Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] Did you mean to put a link there? [/QUOTE] He did, but it was faster than light and we missed it. I’m a Canadian who’s not freaked out and I have no objection to using the a slightly modified U.S. Dollar as the currency, though it’d have to be greatly improved with new anti-counterfeiting measures, such as the Canadian dollar currently has. I’d hate to see bonehead inertia fail to address serious problems. As for socialized health care, the U.S. will need to bring themselves up to our level because I don’t see Canadians willingly sinking to theirs. It’d be the difference between a happy wedding and a shotgun wedding. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2007, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-american-union-reality-or-crazy-conspiracy-theory/408920/19 "2007-06-22T04:20:47Z")
Are they ready to spend a huge portion of their national wealth on Defense .? ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2007, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-american-union-reality-or-crazy-conspiracy-theory/408920/20 "2007-06-22T04:32:17Z")
Oooh. I would like more snow! And those gorgeous red uniforms on mounted police. At the same time, nice silver jewelry and leather work, great music and food. Our beaches will get better – when it’s not snowing, of course – Hey! We get those monarch butterfly migration forests! Whoa! That does it. I’m in! [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-american-union-reality-or-crazy-conspiracy-theory/408920.md?page=2)