# (North) American vs UK accents: does word-final /r/ really sound this different? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 26, 2017, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-american-vs-uk-accents-does-word-final-r-really-sound-this-different/783062 "2017-03-26T06:17:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2017, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-american-vs-uk-accents-does-word-final-r-really-sound-this-different/783062/21 "2017-03-28T05:04:26Z")
Please use the IPA to remove confusion: [here you go](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:IPA_for_English). This [detailed chart for regional accents](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Phonetic_Alphabet_chart_for_English_dialects) should be even more helpful. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2017, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-american-vs-uk-accents-does-word-final-r-really-sound-this-different/783062/22 "2017-03-28T05:40:28Z")
> [@Senegoid](#): > > Anybody remember the comic-strip character Little Iodine? Her father, when mad at someone, always shouted “Berl him in erl!” (Boil him in oil!) > > Actually, we often even go so as to _drop_ the excessive r’s in Febuary and libary. > > I always thought the British word “arse” was just the word “ass” with an intrusive r. Is that not so? Different word. In UK/AUS/NZ etc English: Arse = bum or someone acting like an idiot. It never means “donkey”. Ass = Donkey. ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2017, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-american-vs-uk-accents-does-word-final-r-really-sound-this-different/783062/23 "2017-03-28T06:14:25Z")
> [@Senegoid](#): > > I always thought the British word “arse” was just the word “ass” with an intrusive r. Is that not so? > [@Richard\_Pearse](#): > > Different word. > > In UK/AUS/NZ etc English: > > Arse = bum or someone acting like an idiot. It never means “donkey”. > Ass = Donkey. AmE _ass_ in the sense of posterior, buttocks is a bowdlerisation of _arse_, which has had an -r- in it since right back to Old English. _Ass_, without the -r-, doesn’t turn up in the “buttocks” sense until the nineteenth century. (In the “donkey” sense it goes back to Middle English.) ---
**Author:** ![Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hilarity_n.suze/32/6223_2.png) [@Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hilarity_N.Suze)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2017, 6:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-american-vs-uk-accents-does-word-final-r-really-sound-this-different/783062/24 "2017-03-28T06:27:49Z")
I’ve never heard anyone say “liberry” instead of “library” but I’ve also only ever heard one person put all the Rs in February (my 4th grade teacher). I’ve heard people from (I think) Boston say “strorbry” instead of “strawberry.” There is a New Yorkish accent that takes an R out of things like third (“toid”) and puts it in things like toilet (“terlet”). Oh, Boston, knew a guy from (as I heard it) “New Report.” Later it sounded more like Newbreeport. Eventually I figured out it was Newburyport but I sure didn’t get that from the way he said it. An aunt of mine lived in Worcester, Mass., and was made crazy by people taking the R from one part of her name, which is Martha, and putting it back at the end. “Math-er.” President Kennedy said “idear” instead of “idea.” So some American dialects do have some R issues. Bath and past with an R added?😕 ---
**Author:** ![Isamu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/7c8e57/32.png) [@Isamu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isamu)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2017, 8:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-american-vs-uk-accents-does-word-final-r-really-sound-this-different/783062/25 "2017-03-28T08:19:07Z")
> [@Hilarity\_N.Suze](#): > > I’ve never heard anyone say “liberry” instead of “library” : He means “lie-berry”. ---
**Author:** ![antechinus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/fbc32d/32.png) [@antechinus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/antechinus)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2017, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-american-vs-uk-accents-does-word-final-r-really-sound-this-different/783062/26 "2017-03-29T12:28:11Z")
> [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](#): > > No you haven’t. I live in new York and have never \*ever \*heard anyone say “carfee” or “carl.” Considering you also think Americans say “barth” and “parst” I wonder what sound you are actually trying to write. It is definitely \*not \*an R sound. What to one is “a” is to another “ar”. What to one is “a” is to another “ah”. It’s just a matter of perspective. Pronunciation of coffee. She says the “o” is pronounced “ar” as in “lar”. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/HOs95VaKEkk/hqdefault.jpg "How to Pronounce COFFEE -- Word of the Week -- American English") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HOs95VaKEkk) ---
**Author:** ![BrotherCadfael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2017, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-american-vs-uk-accents-does-word-final-r-really-sound-this-different/783062/27 "2017-03-29T13:57:02Z")
Obligatory Buffy quote: **Spike** (doing an “American” accent): _I’m just a friend of Xandurrrrrrrrs…_ ---
**Author:** ![Doug\_K](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b5ac83/32.png) [@Doug\_K](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doug_K)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2017, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-american-vs-uk-accents-does-word-final-r-really-sound-this-different/783062/28 "2017-03-29T16:07:15Z")
[quote=“antechinus, post:26, topic:783062”] What to one is “a” is to another “ar”. What to one is “a” is to another “ah”. It’s just a matter of perspective. Pronunciation of coffee. She says the “o” is pronounced “ar” as in “lar”. [/QUOTE] No she doesn’t. She says it’s either “aw” as in law or “ah” as in father. ---
**Author:** ![Flyer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/flyer/32/7298_2.png) [@Flyer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flyer)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2017, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-american-vs-uk-accents-does-word-final-r-really-sound-this-different/783062/29 "2017-03-29T16:52:51Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Americans put an “r” in the word “bath”? That must be a regional thing. > > I’ve heard really old people put Rs in funny places; I had a very old neighbor who referred to a washing machine as a “warshing machine.” But, honestly, I’ve never met a person born after the Second World War do that. > [@bordelond](#): > > I’ll be blunt: no American English dialect pronounces “bath” or “past” as “barth” or “parst”. – that is, with a sound that an American English-speaking listener would interpret as an “r”. Does not happen. Haven’t you people heard of the migrating “R” before? A Bostonian washes his caw. A Texan warshes his car. I’ve also heard a few people who needed to check their car’s “earl.” ---
**Author:** ![Flyer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/flyer/32/7298_2.png) [@Flyer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flyer)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2017, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-american-vs-uk-accents-does-word-final-r-really-sound-this-different/783062/30 "2017-03-29T16:54:22Z")
> [@Johanna](#): > > Please use the IPA to remove confusion: [here you go](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:IPA_for_English). > > This [detailed chart for regional accents](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Phonetic_Alphabet_chart_for_English_dialects) should be even more helpful. The IPA is a fine, dandy tool for **increasing** confusion. I have never, however, seen it remove confusion. ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2017, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-american-vs-uk-accents-does-word-final-r-really-sound-this-different/783062/31 "2017-03-29T16:58:18Z")
> [@Flyer](#): > > Haven’t you people heard of the migrating “R” before? Yes, of course. My point was specific, not general: “Migrating R” does not occur in any American dialectical pronunciation of “bath” or “past”. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2017, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-american-vs-uk-accents-does-word-final-r-really-sound-this-different/783062/32 "2017-03-29T18:27:07Z")
> [@Flyer](#): > > The IPA is a fine, dandy tool for **increasing** confusion. I have never, however, seen it remove confusion. Your claim is the precise contrary of reality and suggests a complete lack of knowledge about the IPA. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2017, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-american-vs-uk-accents-does-word-final-r-really-sound-this-different/783062/33 "2017-03-29T18:33:29Z")
So come on, **antechinus**. What are you referring to regarding alleged rs in “bath” and “past”? /bræθ/? /præst/? Or what? Nobody can figure out where you’re finding them, and definitely no sound of [r] occurs in anyone’s pronunciation of them over here. The IPA chart for English dialects has the information you need to indicate precisely what you mean to say. Please pay no attention to the pesky man naysaying the science of phonetics. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2017, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-american-vs-uk-accents-does-word-final-r-really-sound-this-different/783062/34 "2017-03-29T18:47:53Z")
> [@Doug\_K](#): > > No she doesn’t. She says it’s either “aw” as in law or “ah” as in father. Which, as an added wrinkle for those of us with the cot/caught merger, sound the same. ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2017, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-american-vs-uk-accents-does-word-final-r-really-sound-this-different/783062/35 "2017-03-29T18:54:29Z")
> [@Johanna](#): > > So come on, **antechinus**. What are you referring to regarding alleged rs in “bath” and “past”? > /bræθ/? /præst/? Or what? Nobody can figure out where you’re finding them, and definitely no sound of [r] occurs in anyone’s pronunciation of them over here. The only thing I can think of is that he’s picking up on the centering diphthong /eə/ that some Americans produce in “short a” words like “bath”, “past”, “ramp”, etc. My own SE Louisiana dialect makes use of this diphthong in these words – and also in “long a” words that end in /r/ like “air”, “bare”, etc. Anyway, with that centering diphthong ending in a schwa … and with a schwa being a common pronunciation of postvocalic /r/ in many British English dialects (totally guessing that **antechinus** is British) … that schwa in /eə/ might sound like an /r/ to him. ---
**Author:** ![amarinth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3be4f8/32.png) [@amarinth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarinth)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2017, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-american-vs-uk-accents-does-word-final-r-really-sound-this-different/783062/36 "2017-03-29T19:01:41Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > Which, as an added wrinkle for those of us with the cot/caught merger, sound the same. But either way, there’s no “r” there. She even helpfully puts the IPA for the sounds she’s making right there and highlights the appropriate one as she’s pronouncing it. So either she’s the least helpful pronunciation guide _ever_ (if she’s claiming to say one thing and saying something entirely different). Or there’s no “r” sound when she says coffee. I’m going with the latter. ---
**Author:** ![Orwell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/dfb087/32.png) [@Orwell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Orwell)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2017, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-american-vs-uk-accents-does-word-final-r-really-sound-this-different/783062/37 "2017-03-29T19:08:49Z")
[quote=“antechinus, post:26, topic:783062”] What to one is “a” is to another “ar”. What to one is “a” is to another “ah”. It’s just a matter of perspective. Pronunciation of coffee. She says the “o” is pronounced “ar” as in “lar”. [/QUOTE] 😕 There is no “r” sound in the linked video. None at all. Nor in bath or past, either. That’s not to say some Americans don’t insert Rs into words. I have a friend from the PA/OH border area who ways “warsh”. But he also pronounces Ohio as Uh-hi-uh. And I had a HS teacher who pronounced “oil” as “earl”. On the Honeymooners, Ralph and Norton both said “kern” for coin. ---
**Author:** ![Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hilarity_n.suze/32/6223_2.png) [@Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hilarity_N.Suze)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2017, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-american-vs-uk-accents-does-word-final-r-really-sound-this-different/783062/38 "2017-03-29T21:15:48Z")
> [@Flyer](#): > > Haven’t you people heard of the migrating “R” before? > > A Bostonian washes his caw. > > A Texan warshes his car. > > I’ve also heard a few people who needed to check their car’s “earl.” A Texan warshes his cah and then makes sure it isn’t low on all. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2017, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-american-vs-uk-accents-does-word-final-r-really-sound-this-different/783062/39 "2017-03-29T21:43:52Z")
> [@amarinth](#): > > But either way, there’s no “r” there. She even helpfully puts the IPA for the sounds she’s making right there and highlights the appropriate one as she’s pronouncing it. > So either she’s the least helpful pronunciation guide _ever_ (if she’s claiming to say one thing and saying something entirely different). Or there’s no “r” sound when she says coffee. I’m going with the latter. Oh no doubt. I’m 100% on the there’s no R there train. I was just amused because for that particular word, least, to me the two example pronunciations sounded the same. ---
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2017, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-american-vs-uk-accents-does-word-final-r-really-sound-this-different/783062/40 "2017-03-29T22:16:40Z")
> [@Hilarity\_N.Suze](#): > > An aunt of mine lived in Worcester, Mass., and was made crazy by people taking the R from one part of her name, which is Martha, and putting it back at the end. “Math-er.” President Kennedy said “idear” instead of “idea.” So some American dialects do have some R issues. My boss is from Northern New England and would call your aunt an “arnt”, and says “idear”, gararge, drawring, etc. I’m starting to pick it up too! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-american-vs-uk-accents-does-word-final-r-really-sound-this-different/783062.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-american-vs-uk-accents-does-word-final-r-really-sound-this-different/783062.md?page=3)