# (North) American vs UK accents: does word-final /r/ really sound this different? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 26, 2017, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-american-vs-uk-accents-does-word-final-r-really-sound-this-different/783062 "2017-03-26T06:17:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![garygnu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garygnu/32/2924_2.png) [@garygnu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garygnu)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2017, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-american-vs-uk-accents-does-word-final-r-really-sound-this-different/783062/41 "2017-03-29T23:17:08Z")
Plenty of British newscasters seemed insistent on adding an “r” at the end of “Obama,” so that letter seems to be a universally inserted sound in English. It’s just a matter of where. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2017, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-american-vs-uk-accents-does-word-final-r-really-sound-this-different/783062/42 "2017-03-30T04:56:21Z")
> [@bordelond](#): > > The only thing I can think of is that he’s picking up on the centering diphthong /eə/ that some Americans produce in “short a” words like “bath”, “past”, “ramp”, etc. My own SE Louisiana dialect makes use of this diphthong in these words – and also in “long a” words that end in /r/ like “air”, “bare”, etc. > > Anyway, with that centering diphthong ending in a schwa … and with a schwa being a common pronunciation of postvocalic /r/ in many British English dialects (totally guessing that **antechinus** is British) … that schwa in /eə/ might sound like an /r/ to him. That makes plenty of sense. Thank you so much, **bordelond**! (I didn’t watch the video and from the reviews here, I don’t think I’m inclined to either.) > [@garygnu](#): > > Plenty of British newscasters seemed insistent on adding an “r” at the end of “Obama,” so that letter seems to be a universally inserted sound in English. It’s just a matter of where. The where is in between Obama and any immediately following word that starts with a vowel. It’s just to fill up the vowel hiatus, nothing else. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2017, 5:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-american-vs-uk-accents-does-word-final-r-really-sound-this-different/783062/43 "2017-03-30T05:51:56Z")
[quote=“antechinus, post:26, topic:783062”] Pronunciation of coffee. She says the “o” is pronounced “ar” as in “lar”. [/QUOTE] No, she doesn’t pronounce any “r” in coffee. Not even a hint of the sound. I suspect you pronounce “car” as “cah”, and so you’re hearing YOUR version of an “r” sound where there isn’t any. So how do you differentiate between “fa” and “far”? Do they sound the same to you? Is your “r” sound simply the _absence_ of a sound? And as a former New Yorker, I have never heard an “r” in coffee. Oh, and the “warsh” thing is from St. Louis, through the southern parts of Illinois, Indiana, Ohio and Pennsylvania. ---
**Author:** ![BeeGee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b5a626/32.png) [@BeeGee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeeGee)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2017, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-american-vs-uk-accents-does-word-final-r-really-sound-this-different/783062/44 "2017-03-30T06:17:32Z")
> [@Flyer](#): > > A Texan warshes his car Not even on a bad day. Not even if it’s a pickup. Wa-ush the car? Yes. Warsh it? Hmmm. No. We’ll add extra syllables, but we’re more likely to drop an R than add it. ---
**Author:** ![GrumpyBunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bc8723/32.png) [@GrumpyBunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrumpyBunny)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2017, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-american-vs-uk-accents-does-word-final-r-really-sound-this-different/783062/45 "2017-03-30T17:49:04Z")
> [@antechinus](#): > > She is correct. > > Not only does the US “R” sound originate further down the throat, it also appears where no R was meant to be (consider “bath” and “past”) … They must be using all of the "r"s scorned by New Englanders. ---
**Author:** ![Doug\_K](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b5ac83/32.png) [@Doug\_K](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doug_K)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2017, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-american-vs-uk-accents-does-word-final-r-really-sound-this-different/783062/46 "2017-03-30T22:21:46Z")
> [@antechinus](#): > > She is correct. > > Not only does the US “R” sound originate further down the throat, it also appears where no R was meant to be (consider “bath” and “past”) and it takes over those words that it does appear in (consider “the orange forest squirrel quarter”). I don’t know why I didn’t pick up on this before, but in what alternate dimension does the US “R” sound originate down the throat? Even if I do the exaggerated RRRRRR at the end of a sentence like Kevin Cronin does, it’s all in the tongue, not the throat. ---
**Author:** ![trapezoidal\_jellyfish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6f9a4e/32.png) [@trapezoidal\_jellyfish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/trapezoidal_jellyfish)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2017, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-american-vs-uk-accents-does-word-final-r-really-sound-this-different/783062/47 "2017-03-31T05:57:52Z")
Am I the only one who thinks that her “American R” doesn’t even sound that American? Why is she exaggerating it so much? I’m assuming she can pronounce words that begin with an /r/ sound without vomiting. ---
**Author:** ![Cugel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cugel/32/1199_2.png) [@Cugel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cugel)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2017, 6:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-american-vs-uk-accents-does-word-final-r-really-sound-this-different/783062/48 "2017-03-31T06:22:46Z")
> [@BeeGee](#): > > I’ve heard more than a few Englishmen put an extra r in strawberry: strorberry. ‘aw’ and ‘or’ are the same sound. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2017, 8:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-american-vs-uk-accents-does-word-final-r-really-sound-this-different/783062/49 "2017-03-31T08:09:32Z")
> [@Cugel](#): > > ‘aw’ and ‘or’ are the same sound. Is this a whoosh, or are you actually serious? Does the letter “r” literally have no sound at all to you? ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2017, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-american-vs-uk-accents-does-word-final-r-really-sound-this-different/783062/50 "2017-03-31T13:46:16Z")
> [@Cugel](#): > > ‘aw’ and ‘or’ are the same sound. Only in certain dialects. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2017, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-american-vs-uk-accents-does-word-final-r-really-sound-this-different/783062/51 "2017-03-31T14:04:37Z")
> [@Cugel](#): > > ‘aw’ and ‘or’ are the same sound. Now I’m imagining Elmer Fudd eating an awange. ---
**Author:** ![Miss\_Mapp](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miss_mapp/32/369_2.png) [@Miss\_Mapp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miss_Mapp)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2017, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-american-vs-uk-accents-does-word-final-r-really-sound-this-different/783062/52 "2017-03-31T14:30:30Z")
> [@Cugel](#): > > ‘aw’ and ‘or’ are the same sound. This would explain how New York c_auw_fee got an R in it. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2017, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-american-vs-uk-accents-does-word-final-r-really-sound-this-different/783062/53 "2017-03-31T16:53:45Z")
> [@panache45](#): > > Does the letter “r” literally have no sound at all to you? That is correct. Say hello to non-rhotic dialects, where no /r/ sound can be syllable-final. Non-rhotic English abounds in most of England (and growing), all of Wales, and coastal areas in the northern US from Maine to New Jersey and in the coastal South from South Carolina to Louisiana (currently shrinking). Also Australian and New Zealand English and various other world Englishes in former British colonies. The rhotic lands are Scotland, Ireland, the Isle of Man, Canada, and the United States apart from the 2 coastal non-rhotic areas. Texas, please note, although Southern, is rhotic, one of its distinguishing features. Sometimes, although it isn’t pronounced, the phantom of the final -r that used to be there affects the sound of the preceding vowel. The ğ in Turkish works the same way. It hasn’t been pronounced in over a century or more, but its presence affects how the vowels around it sound. This is how they stuck phantom rs into Sadé and Myanmɑː – making rhotic populations go around speaking of “Sha **r** day” and “Myanma **r** ”. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2017, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-american-vs-uk-accents-does-word-final-r-really-sound-this-different/783062/54 "2017-03-31T17:56:07Z")
But the flip side of that is that people with non-rhotic dialects hear an “r” where none exists? Like in “coffee”? ---
**Author:** ![antechinus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/fbc32d/32.png) [@antechinus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/antechinus)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2017, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-american-vs-uk-accents-does-word-final-r-really-sound-this-different/783062/55 "2017-03-31T22:56:53Z")
> [@Doug\_K](#): > > No she doesn’t. She says it’s either “aw” as in law or “ah” as in father. Yes. I.e corffee or carffee Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![antechinus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/fbc32d/32.png) [@antechinus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/antechinus)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2017, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-american-vs-uk-accents-does-word-final-r-really-sound-this-different/783062/56 "2017-03-31T23:07:12Z")
> [@bordelond](#): > > The only thing I can think of is that he’s picking up on the centering diphthong /e/ that some Americans produce in “short a” words like “bath”, “past”, “ramp”, etc. My own SE Louisiana dialect makes use of this diphthong in these words – and also in “long a” words that end in /r/ like “air”, “bare”, etc. > > Anyway, with that centering diphthong ending in a schwa … and with a schwa being a common pronunciation of postvocalic /r/ in many British English dialects (totally guessing that **antechinus** is British) … that schwa in /e/ might sound like an /r/ to him. Yes. As i said, it’s all a matter of perspective. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![Doug\_K](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b5ac83/32.png) [@Doug\_K](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doug_K)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2017, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-american-vs-uk-accents-does-word-final-r-really-sound-this-different/783062/57 "2017-03-31T23:15:00Z")
> [@antechinus](#): > > Yes. I.e corffee or carffee > Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk No.There is no similarity between “aw” or “ah” and"or" or “ar”, and she doesn’t claim there is. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2017, 5:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-american-vs-uk-accents-does-word-final-r-really-sound-this-different/783062/58 "2017-04-01T05:48:53Z")
> [@panache45](#): > > But the flip side of that is that people with non-rhotic dialects hear an “r” where none exists? Like in “coffee”? That… could be one way to put it. In terms of phonology, it’s what I described above, how the ghost of the former [r] still haunts the vowel it left bereft when it departed. The vowel wears an r-colored shirt in memory of its late companion. By that I mean the vowel takes on the sound it used to have when the r was pronounced next to it (“r-coloring”). In English in both Britain and America, the sound of o before r is lax and rounded: [ɔ]. For an Englishman to hear that particular vowel in _coffee_, it will awaken in his mind the association of that sound with the (ghost of) /r/. ---
**Author:** ![svd678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/53a042/32.png) [@svd678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/svd678)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2017, 6:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-american-vs-uk-accents-does-word-final-r-really-sound-this-different/783062/59 "2017-04-01T06:25:15Z")
I never understood how, in rural Ohio, “Cora” is pronounced “Cory” and “Naomi” is “Naoma”. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2017, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-american-vs-uk-accents-does-word-final-r-really-sound-this-different/783062/60 "2017-04-02T00:24:10Z")
I used to marvel at how in American Naomi became pronounced as Naiomi, with the vowels of Nairobi. I think I know why that is. At first we were used to hearing the usual English pronunciation [neɪˈoʊmiː]. At some point we began to feel it should be pronounced with a more European quality of the letter a, like “ah.” But then when we pulled out the [e] to replace it with [a], the diphthongal [ɪ] glide became separated and was left in the name. When combined with the new [a] sound, we got [naɪˈoʊmiː] sounding like Nairobi. I think the, again, vowel hiatus between [a] and [oʊ] would have felt like it needed to be filled in, and the [ɪ] glide was already conveniently there. So it got to keep its job when the [e] was laid off. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-american-vs-uk-accents-does-word-final-r-really-sound-this-different/783062.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-american-vs-uk-accents-does-word-final-r-really-sound-this-different/783062.md?page=4)