# North By Northwest: Were the "ROT" matchbooks a joke? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 4, 2005, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-by-northwest-were-the-rot-matchbooks-a-joke/297727 "2005-04-04T20:59:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2005, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-by-northwest-were-the-rot-matchbooks-a-joke/297727/1 "2005-04-04T20:59:43Z")
According to some critics, the great film _North By Northwest_ directed by Alfred Hitchcock and starring Cary Grant is something of a spoof on espionage thrillers of the day. (IMHO it’s hard to tell in a Cary Grant movie since he usually seemed to have his tongue firmly planted in his cheek.) But after seeing it again on TCM yesterday, I started wondering about the monogrammed matchbooks he carries in the film–ROT for Roger O. Thornhill. Isn’t the idea of having one’s own matchbooks made somewhat bizarre? Wouldn’t a smoker with any pretensions to high style rather carry a solid gold Zippo or something of that sort? Of course you _can_ give out matchbooks, which isn’t true of an expensive lighter. So there’s an advantage. But, in IRL, has anyone heard of monogrammed matchbooks? ---
**Author:** ![BobT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e8cbc/32.png) [@BobT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobT)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2005, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-by-northwest-were-the-rot-matchbooks-a-joke/297727/2 "2005-04-04T21:55:48Z")
Roger Thornhill was in advertising, so it makes sense he would have something distinctive he could just hand out to people. ---
**Author:** ![Roadfood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9fc348/32.png) [@Roadfood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roadfood)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2005, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-by-northwest-were-the-rot-matchbooks-a-joke/297727/3 "2005-04-05T00:10:01Z")
> [@BobT](#): > > Roger Thornhill was in advertising, so it makes sense he would have something distinctive he could just hand out to people. Except that all they had on them was the “ROT”. No full name, no company name, no phone number (no web site address ;)) . So how useful could that be? Someone finds one of his matchbooks a few days later: “Oh yeah, that advertising guy. What was his name? Robert? Thornton? Oh well, I’d like to use him for this advertising job I have, but since I can’t exactly look up ‘ROT’ in the phone book, I’ll have to go with Acme advertising…” ---
**Author:** ![pinkfreud](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pinkfreud/32/17603_2.png) [@pinkfreud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pinkfreud)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2005, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-by-northwest-were-the-rot-matchbooks-a-joke/297727/4 "2005-04-05T00:16:11Z")
My late father was very fond of monogrammed matchbooks. In the 1950s, this was often done by those who preferred matches to lighters. My dad had many different styles and colors of matchbooks with 3-letter monograms on 'em. Like ROT, my father’s initials spelled a word. The word was ARM. I had forgotten about those matchbooks until I saw this post. It’s odd how childhood memories can flood back into the mind with a small stimulus. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2005, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-by-northwest-were-the-rot-matchbooks-a-joke/297727/5 "2005-04-05T00:38:20Z")
Monogrammed matchbooks were quite common. I’d guess an adman would have them made up, but they weren’t all that unusual for others to have them. Even now, they are sometimes made up for [weddings and other occasions](http://store.yahoo.com/partyblock/monbookmat50.html). It’s not advertising; it’s class. When you light your cigarette with a monogrammed one, it looks nicer than one with an ad telling you how to get your high school diploma by mail. Or one that advertises something (back then, it was considered crass to have an advertisement on your personal items). The one nonstandard thing about Thornhill’s are that they were more commonly designed with the last name in the middle, and in larger text: RTO for Roger O. Thornhill This was to prevent the middle initial from being the largest letter. But I suppose there were other designs with the initials in the right order. ---
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2005, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-by-northwest-were-the-rot-matchbooks-a-joke/297727/6 "2005-04-05T01:15:34Z")
Eva Marie Saint: “…what does the ‘O’ stand for?” Cary Grant: “Nothing.” ---
**Author:** ![plnnr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@plnnr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/plnnr)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2005, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-by-northwest-were-the-rot-matchbooks-a-joke/297727/7 "2005-04-05T12:15:35Z")
Forget his matchbooks, I want his “Incredibly Well Wearing, Indestructible Suit.” ---
**Author:** ![Duke\_of\_Rat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Duke\_of\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke_of_Rat)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2005, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-by-northwest-were-the-rot-matchbooks-a-joke/297727/8 "2005-04-05T14:36:53Z")
When he sent his suit to be cleaned, I got a kick out of his pronunciation of “valet”. He said it like “val-it” and I thought it was pronounced “val-ay”. But he’s Cary Grant, he surely knows how to say it. And his “dandruff” came in 3 syllables or some strange pronunciation. ---
**Author:** ![vibrotronica](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/a9a28c/32.png) [@vibrotronica](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vibrotronica)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2005, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-by-northwest-were-the-rot-matchbooks-a-joke/297727/9 "2005-04-05T15:32:33Z")
Yes, I think “rOt” is a subtle visual joke. There are a lot of them in the movie, like the last scene where the train enters the tunnel just as Thornhill and Eve Kendell get it on. Hitchock’s cameo during the opening credits where he misses the bus sets the tone of the film, which is much more lighthearted than _Vertigo_. ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2005, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-by-northwest-were-the-rot-matchbooks-a-joke/297727/10 "2005-04-05T16:21:18Z")
> [@Duke of Rat](#): > > When he sent his suit to be cleaned, I got a kick out of his pronunciation of “valet”. He said it like “val-it” and I thought it was pronounced “val-ay”. But he’s Cary Grant, he surely knows how to say it. “Val-it” is an acceptable pronunciation, in fact this [site](http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=valet) lists it as the first pronunciation. It also pops up in “Gentlemen Prefer Blondes,” when MM is perusing the passenger list for suitable dinner companions for Jane Russell. “Mister Henry Spofford and valet” among others. ---
**Author:** ![rjk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ed655f/32.png) [@rjk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjk)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2005, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-by-northwest-were-the-rot-matchbooks-a-joke/297727/11 "2005-04-05T16:33:54Z")
> [@plnnr](#): > > Forget his matchbooks, I want his “Incredibly Well Wearing, Indestructible Suit.” He got it from [Sidney Stratton](http://imdb.com/title/tt0044876/), as played by Alec Guinness. Too bad Sid didn’t turn his attention to jeans. And of course, **Otto** , Jeeves pronounces ‘valet’ as ‘gentleman’s _personal_ gentleman’ (to properly express his dignity). ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2005, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-by-northwest-were-the-rot-matchbooks-a-joke/297727/12 "2005-04-05T16:34:39Z")
> [@vibrotronica](#): > > Yes, I think “rOt” is a subtle visual joke. There are a lot of them in the movie, like the last scene where the train enters the tunnel just as Thornhill and Eve Kendell get it on. Hitchock’s cameo during the opening credits where he misses the bus sets the tone of the film, which is much more lighthearted than _Vertigo_. Hitchcock once said (parahrasing), “There are no symbols in **North by Northwest**. Well, one. The train going into the tunnel at the end. That’s a phallic symbol, but don’t tell anyone.” Hitchcock’s cameo, OTOH, was placed where it is to get it over with. He used vaguely humorous cameos even in serious films. In this case, he didn’t want people wondering when he would show up and have that interfere with the action. ---
**Author:** ![vibrotronica](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/a9a28c/32.png) [@vibrotronica](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vibrotronica)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2005, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-by-northwest-were-the-rot-matchbooks-a-joke/297727/13 "2005-04-05T16:46:43Z")
You’re right, of course, **RealityChuck** , but do you agree that the tone of _North by Northwest_ is a bit lighter than usual for Hitch? It’s heresy for a Hitchcock fan, but I actually prefer it to _Vertigo_, which has not aged well IMHO. ---
**Author:** ![F.U.Shakespeare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/aca169/32.png) [@F.U.Shakespeare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/F.U.Shakespeare)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2005, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-by-northwest-were-the-rot-matchbooks-a-joke/297727/14 "2005-04-05T16:49:52Z")
In addition to the suit, I want one of those uniforms that Thornhill gets at the Chicago train station by bribing the 5’2", 120-lb. redcap – talk about one-size-fits-all. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2005, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-by-northwest-were-the-rot-matchbooks-a-joke/297727/15 "2005-04-05T18:00:46Z")
> [@vibrotronica](#): > > You’re right, of course, **RealityChuck** , but do you agree that the tone of _North by Northwest_ is a bit lighter than usual for Hitch? > > It’s heresy for a Hitchcock fan, but I actually prefer it to _Vertigo_, which has not aged well IMHO. The tone of the film is lighter\*, certainly, but the tone of the cameo is pretty much the same as his cameos in the 50s and later. By that time, people caught on to the fact he was in every one of his films and would look for him, so he had fun with it. So you got him carrying a bass fiddle ( **Strangers on a Train** ), walking his dogs ( **The Birds** ), wearing a cowboy hat ( **Psycho** ), sitting with a baby on his knee ( **Torn Curtain** ), etc. Hitchcock by that time was a bit annoyed at having to do them (he first did it because they needed an extra body on screen, then as a good luck charm, and finally because it was expected). Though I agree with you about **Vertigo**. It’s OK, but I prefer \*\*North by Northwest, Strangers on a Train, Rear Window, The 39 Steps, Saboteur, Family Plot[b/] (his most underrated film) and, of course **Psycho** (ultimately, his most influential film). \*Though it is very similar to his earlier **Saboteur**. ---
**Author:** ![Ponder\_Stibbons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ponder_stibbons/32/343_2.png) [@Ponder\_Stibbons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ponder_Stibbons)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2005, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-by-northwest-were-the-rot-matchbooks-a-joke/297727/16 "2005-04-05T18:25:13Z")
I must admit that the [newspaper cameo](http://hitchcock.tv/cam/lifeboatCam.jpeg) (Lifeboat) is my favorite one. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2005, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-by-northwest-were-the-rot-matchbooks-a-joke/297727/17 "2005-04-06T03:55:51Z")
> [@Otto](#): > > “Val-it” is an acceptable pronunciation, in fact this [site](http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=valet) lists it as the first pronunciation. It also pops up in “Gentlemen Prefer Blondes,” when MM is perusing the passenger list for suitable dinner companions for Jane Russell. “Mister Henry Spofford and valet” among others. “VAL-et”, AFAIK, is the _only_ correct pronunciation, while “val-LAY” is a genteelism based on the notion that words used by the rich ought to have sophisticated French pronunciations. On the other hand, though, I’d say that this applies only in the meaning of a personal servant. In the context of parking cars, you’re probably better off pronouncing it “val-LAY”. ---
**Author:** ![Duke\_of\_Rat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Duke\_of\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke_of_Rat)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2005, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-by-northwest-were-the-rot-matchbooks-a-joke/297727/18 "2005-04-06T04:03:22Z")
> [@Spectre of Pithecanthropus](#): > > “VAL-et”, AFAIK, is the _only_ correct pronunciation, while “val-LAY” is a genteelism based on the notion that words used by the rich ought to have sophisticated French pronunciations. On the other hand, though, I’d say that this applies only in the meaning of a personal servant. In the context of parking cars, you’re probably better off pronouncing it “val-LAY”. See, I knew Cary Grant knew how to pronounce it. I admit zero contact with personal servants, but have had my car parked a few times.