North Carolina passes hateful Amendment 1

[Ann_Hedonia]

@FuriousGeorge

No matter how you feel about the issue, I’m not sure this is cool.

I wasn’t sure either but Mom was really strongly against this Amendment. I even said something about it being Ok to make them register but not to dictate their vote but my mommy is a strong-willed old lady with a gay older brother and lots of gay friends who had put a lot of work into this campaign

[Anne_Neville]

@Dr.Drake

On the plus side, no doubt the gay community will immediately stop smoking, since purchasing American tobacco products inevitably funnels a lot of dollars into the conservative areas of NC politics.

It would sure be great if they did, or if disappointment with this gave anyone, gay, bi, or straight, some extra motivation to quit smoking.

[Ann_Hedonia]

And I just signed onyto FaceBook to find a sea of black, all my NC friends have changed their profile pictures to solid black squares in protest

[Rand_Rover]

@Hamlet

As long as institutionalized bigotry and hatred doesn’t effect Rand Rover, eh? Unless it’s you on the end of the mob of mouth breathing idiots’ vileness, it doesn’t really bother you.

And I loved how you threw in the old “if they don’t like it, they can move” canard.

You’re a moron.

NO U

[Anne_Neville]

@Dr.Drake

On the plus side, no doubt the gay community will immediately stop smoking, since purchasing American tobacco products inevitably funnels a lot of dollars into the conservative areas of NC politics.

People who do support this amendment, why don’t you take up smoking, if you don’t already smoke, to show your support of rural North Carolina?

[TriPolar]

@VinylTurnip

It hurts me to say this, but I think this is an unfair response to what RR said. He thinks it’s a state issue, the state made their decision—not the decision he would’ve made personally—and as a non-resident of the state there’s not much he can do at this point but commiserate.

I don’t necessarily agree, but I don’t think he deserves to be the thread’s honorary whipping boy and stand-in for the NC jackasses who did vote the amendment through.

Now please, for the love of God, never make me defend **Rand Rover **again.

I feel the same way. All of it. I don’t like it, and it’s not my state. But I still consider N. Carolina to be a dipshit state, just as I did before the vote.

[jayjay]

@gamerunknown

Infographic courtesy of the Guardian ought to help.

Lovely…I live in the only state in the Northeast that’s almost completely blank. Marriage equality is prohibited and everything except adoption by a single person is blank. Thanks, Pennsylvania! Not that it’s terribly surprising. Maybe if Maryland passes this marriage equality law in referendum, we’ll look at moving across the border…

[Whack-a-Mole]

@Rand_Rover

I do not believe that the US Constitution grants gay people the right to marry other people of the same gender. (And if you want to argue about it, then actually write up an argument, and I will respond. I will not respond to drivel such as “what about equal protection, eh?”.)

Sorry but it is about equal protection.

The constitution does not specifically grant the right to anyone to marry…heterosexual or otherwise. Certainly doesn’t grant the right for black people to marry white people either.

Or does it…

The Supreme Court, unanimously, said that anti-miscegenation laws violated the Due Process Clause and the Equal Protection Clause.

Hand wave it away all you want but that is the argument that will be made if it ever gets before the court.

[Whack-a-Mole]

@newcrasher

Fuck you backwater, multi-phobic, hateful jackasses.

Relevant.

[Hamlet]

@VinylTurnip

It hurts me to say this, but I think this is an unfair response to what RR said. He thinks it’s a state issue, the state made their decision—not the decision he would’ve made personally—and as a non-resident of the state there’s not much he can do at this point but commiserate.

It’s not just about Rand Rover. It’s all the people who tacitly support this by supporting the Republican party. It’s the people who couldn’t be bothered to go out and vote no. It’s the people who do shrug their shoulders and say “Well, I can’t do anything about it”. It’s the people who don’t stand up for what is right, fair, and just. It’s the silence that let’s the shouting of the brain dead hate mongers that I’m railing against also.

@Vinyl Turnip

I don’t necessarily agree, but I don’t think he deserves to be the thread’s honorary whipping boy and stand-in for the NC jackasses who did vote the amendment through.

It has very little to do with RR, and more to do with the attitude he envinced in his post.

[Rand_Rover]

@Whack-a-Mole

Sorry but it is about equal protection.

The constitution does not specifically grant the right to anyone to marry…heterosexual or otherwise. Certainly doesn’t grant the right for black people to marry white people either.

Or does it…

The Supreme Court, unanimously, said that anti-miscegenation laws violated the Due Process Clause and the Equal Protection Clause.

Hand wave it away all you want but that is the argument that will be made if it ever gets before the court.

Nope. With that one word, I have fully answered your assertion. If you actually make an argument that the equal protection or due process clauses of the US Constitutikn apply here, I’ll respond.

[Rand_Rover]

@Hamlet

It’s not just about Rand Rover. It’s all the people who tacitly support this by supporting the Republican party. It’s the people who couldn’t be bothered to go out and vote no. It’s the people who do shrug their shoulders and say “Well, I can’t do anything about it”. It’s the people who don’t stand up for what is right, fair, and just. It’s the silence that let’s the shouting of the brain dead hate mongers that I’m railing against also.

It has very little to do with RR, and more to do with the attitude he envinced in his post.

Well, what’s "right, fair and just " is in the eye of the beholder, and the majority of the eyes in NC behold differently than you and I do. Also, people can have different reasons for supporting a political party, so support of a party isn’t tacitsupport for everything that party stands for. Here in the real world we must make choices between imperfect alternatives.

[Eve]

@Ann_Hedonia

And I just signed onyto FaceBook to find a sea of black, all my NC friends have changed their profile pictures to solid black squares in protest

That’s very sweet of them, but I hope they all actually went out and voted.

[elucidator]

Equal protection or due process clauses of the US Constitution apply here. Your turn, RR.

(Not to worry, Vinny. He’ll step on his dick, he always does. He may not always know when to speak up, but he never knows when to shut up.)

[Musicat]

@mhendo

I’ll be interested to see the breakdown of the Amendment 1 vote, because here in California the divide was partly city/country, but it was just as obviously old/young.

In the 18-24 age group, 64% voted against Prop 8, while in the 65+ age group, 61% voted for it, and the numbers were pretty much a sliding scale between those two groups. Basically, the older you were, the more likely you were to vote against gay marriage.

And your numbers are: 1. from actual vote data, or 2. from polls, so are suspect?

(By polls, I mean sampling ones, not voting polls.)

[Hamlet]

@Rand_Rover

Well, what’s "right, fair and just " is in the eye of the beholder, and the majority of the eyes in NC behold differently than you and I do.

And the people of Alabama thought blacks should be slaves, then that they shouldn’t be allowed to eat at the lunch counter or vote. And people of Georgia thought blacks and whites shouldn’t be allowed to marry each other. And the people of Texas thought same sex partners shouldn’t be allowed to have sexual relations with each other.

@Rand Rover

Also, people can have different reasons for supporting a political party, so support of a party isn’t tacitsupport for everything that party stands for. Here in the real world we must make choices between imperfect alternatives.

I have a real problem understanding that there is any stance the Republican party actually does something about that is so important that it outweighs treating homosexuals as second class citizens and legislating hate against them solely for the purpose of hate. Personally, I have trouble thinking of any positive action that would outweigh that kind of hatred and bigotry.

[Kimstu]

@Musicat

And your numbers are: 1. from actual vote data, or 2. from polls, so are suspect?

(By polls, I mean sampling ones, not voting polls.)

How are voting booth exit polls any less “suspect” than other polls about voting choices? The only way to get any information at all about how people vote is to poll the voters, since it’s not possible to get that “vote data” off the actual ballots.

[mhendo]

@Musicat

And your numbers are: 1. from actual vote data, or 2. from polls, so are suspect?

Well, given that we, like every other state in the union, have a secret ballot, why don’t you go ahead and see if you can answer your own question. I’ll give you a minute, in case it requires you to scratch your head a little bit.

Done now? Is your brain hurting yet?

The data are clearly from exits polls. They may not be perfect, but it’s also likely that they offer a fairly accurate picture of voting trends in those elections. I’ll bet that the age-based differences shown in the exit polls are considerably larger than the usual margin of error in such polls.

[Klostertal]

I did what I could. I voted. I got people out to vote. My area (Raleigh, Wake County) voted heavily against. In my neighborhood it was 30 to 1 signs against versus signs for (I counted). Everyone I know well enough to talk politics, down to the last person, was against this amendment.

Sorry everyone. :mad:

I’m very disappointed and embarrassed, but not surprised.

A big factor though I think is that the NC Legislature, R and D alike, chose to have the referendum on the primary ballot rather than on the general when there’s a much higher turnout.

Why they chose to do that, I don’t know.

[Kimstu]

Anyway, here’s some pre-vote polling data from May 1 about the NC amendment:

Likely primary voters are still planning to vote for the amendment by a 14-point margin, this time 55-41, rather than 54-40.

Opposition is rising slightly with Republicans, independents, and African Americans, from 17% to 21% with the GOP, from 43% to 46% with independents, and from 39% to 43% with black voters. Democrats on the whole are opposed by a 54-42 spread. Reports of strong youth turnout in parts of the state could be a good sign for opponents; voters under the age of 30 oppose the amendment by 26 points, while the elder age brackets all support it by spreads of nine to 24 points—though that is down from margins of 16 to 32 points last week.

The good news for the amendment’s opponents is that more voters are now aware of the amendment’s consequences, and if all voters were informed of those consequences, the amendment would fail by a 38-46 margin, the same as last week. A 40% plurality now knows that the amendment would ban both same-sex marriage and civil unions, versus 36% in the previous survey. Those who know what the amendment would do are against it by 22 points, but they are outweighed by the strong support from the uneducated.

As part of the overall 22-point shift, Democrats move 21 points, Republicans 24 points, and independents 16 points against the amendment when told it would ban both marriage and civil unions for gay couples.

The reason this message has an impact is that 55% of these primary voters want same-sex couples to at least have the same legal rights as married heterosexual couples, if not full marriage equality. That includes 67% of Democrats, 60% of independents, and even 35% of Republicans.