# North Dakota Voter ID Law Bars Native Americans from Polls **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [October 12, 2018, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-dakota-voter-id-law-bars-native-americans-from-polls/822839 "2018-10-12T05:28:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-dakota-voter-id-law-bars-native-americans-from-polls/822839/21 "2018-10-12T16:02:03Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > This bit right here is wrong. I’m sure you’re about to elaborate, right? ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-dakota-voter-id-law-bars-native-americans-from-polls/822839/22 "2018-10-12T16:08:30Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Does a tribal ID prove you live on the reservation, or does it prove you’re a member of the tribe? I’m not sure but I would think even if it didn’t that a valid tribal id coupled with a PO box in the same district as the reservation should be sufficient to guard against voter fraud. ---
**Author:** ![slash2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@slash2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slash2k)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-dakota-voter-id-law-bars-native-americans-from-polls/822839/23 "2018-10-12T16:20:04Z")
The problem seems to be that houses on the reservation don’t necessarily have street addresses assigned, or an address was assigned but the county didn’t necessarily tell the residents what the address was (since reservation homes don’t always receive mail delivery at the home, and many residences are owned by the tribe so the resident isn’t dealing with some of the standard paperwork that exists outside Indian Country, knowing your street address is apparently not necessary for purposes other than voting). Getting an address assigned is allegedly “easy” as long as you know what office to call (the county 911 coordinator probably would not have been my first guess), but it’s just one more hurdle to jump through. ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-dakota-voter-id-law-bars-native-americans-from-polls/822839/24 "2018-10-12T16:21:41Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > What I think is “Wrong,” is the idea that because the requirement for a residence may effect reservations more than others, the law should be banned state-wide. So, did any of your profound thinking entertain the idea that, because reservations are unique places with unique circumstances, the law should make an exception for those people so that their voting rights would not unjustly be taken away?! I thought not. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-dakota-voter-id-law-bars-native-americans-from-polls/822839/25 "2018-10-12T16:34:29Z")
> [@andros](#): > > I’m sure you’re about to elaborate, right? [I can get a PO Box in Bismark for $8/month](https://poboxes.usps.com/findBox.html?q=58505). Should I be able to vote against Heitkamp in North Dakota, or was Mr. Faith in fact, mistaken when he said “There is no good reason that a P.O. box is not sufficient to vote”? ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-dakota-voter-id-law-bars-native-americans-from-polls/822839/26 "2018-10-12T16:45:36Z")
BTW, for reference purposes, [here is the ND SoS’s “ID Required for Voting” page](https://vip.sos.nd.gov/idrequirements.aspx): > [@](#): > > Requirements for Identification > (NDCC § 16.1-01-04.1) > > **➣ Identification must include the voter’s:** > Name > Current North Dakota Residential Address > Date of Birth > > **Acceptable Forms of Identification:** > **➣ Voting at the Polling Place – A Valid North Dakota:** > Driver’s license > Nondriver’s identification card > Tribal government issued identification (including those issued by BIA for a tribe located in North Dakota, any other tribal agency or entity, or any other document that sets forth the tribal member’s name, date of birth, and current North Dakota residential address) > Long term care identification certificate (provided by North Dakota facility) > > \*\*➣ Supplemental Documentation > \*\*If an individual’s valid form of identification does not include the North Dakota residential address or date of birth, or the North Dakota residential address is not current, the individual may supplement the identification with a current utility bill; a current bank statement; a check or a document issued by a federal, state, local, or tribal government (including those issued by BIA for a tribe located in North Dakota, any other tribal agency or entity, or any other document that sets forth the tribal member’s name, date of birth, and current North Dakota residential address); or a paycheck. > > \*\*➣ Set Aside Ballot Option > \*\*If an individual is not able to show a valid form of identification but asserts qualifications as an elector, the individual may mark a ballot that will be securely set aside. When the individual provides valid identification to the proper election official prior to the meeting of the canvassing board, the set aside ballot will be presented to the canvassing board for proper inclusion in the tally. > > … ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-dakota-voter-id-law-bars-native-americans-from-polls/822839/27 "2018-10-12T16:53:32Z")
> [@](#): > > Quoth **CarnalK** : > > That would be in direct violation of the National Voter Registration Act of 1993 which requires states to allow voter registration when applying for a driver’s license or public assistance. So put just one DMV office in the whole state, too. There have already been cases where, after passing voter ID laws, states have closed down all of the DMVs in some counties. And guess which way those counties that now don’t have a DMV tend to vote? ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-dakota-voter-id-law-bars-native-americans-from-polls/822839/28 "2018-10-12T16:57:50Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > So in addition to a photo ID, your photo ID must list your current address. Which many native Americans, and _specifically_ native Americans on the reservation, simply do not have. How does this happen anyway? People on the reservation don’t live in houses? Aren’t the houses on streets? Don’t the streets have names? Honest question. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-dakota-voter-id-law-bars-native-americans-from-polls/822839/29 "2018-10-12T17:02:32Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > So put just one DMV office in the whole state, too. There have already been cases where, after passing voter ID laws, states have closed down all of the DMVs in some counties. And guess which way those counties that now don’t have a DMV tend to vote? I have a feeling that if the Dems took away every DMV office in the state, it would not turn into the electoral windfall you imagine. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-dakota-voter-id-law-bars-native-americans-from-polls/822839/30 "2018-10-12T17:11:09Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > How does this happen anyway? People on the reservation don’t live in houses? Aren’t the houses on streets? Don’t the streets have names? > > Honest question. I assign addresses for the county government. Very often, while a person has an address, it’s can be pretty bogus. Especially if there is no Postal Delivery. It’s never checked, and nobody used to care. Things are getting better now with the onslaught of GoogleMaps and many municipalities using GIS. I am one of many that doesn’t get my mail delivered, IF my physical address is in the USPS master address list, I suspect it puts me in the wrong town (most of my online searches put me in a town about 12 miles away). I don’t know if when registering to vote, your address gets validated. I mail in my ballot, and my POB is in a different county that I live in (not that unusual where I live). Yep, the county I VOTE in mails my ballot to a POB in a different county. ---
**Author:** ![slash2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@slash2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slash2k)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-dakota-voter-id-law-bars-native-americans-from-polls/822839/31 "2018-10-12T17:11:30Z")
So if I live in a place where mail delivery is to the post office, not my residential address, that means my bank statement and utility bill and other documents are going to bear the post office box address as well. For example, [this article](https://apnews.com/14e8079c27974f57ad56728ec87777fc) quotes a North Dakota local official as saying street addresses have been assigned in 99% percent of his county “in the past several years,” which implies that until quite recently many residences didn’t have such addresses. If I’ve had your bank account and other paperwork established at one address, the post office box, for some period of time, what was my motivation to rush out and change it (particularly given that the post office might not actually deliver it to the street address anyway–they don’t everywhere)? ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-dakota-voter-id-law-bars-native-americans-from-polls/822839/32 "2018-10-12T17:15:02Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > Even if someone like Bricker can make a legal argument in defense of the decision, it’s impossible to ignore the intent behind such efforts on the part of the GOP. IANAL but I believe the rationale is that they need your address to ensure you vote in the proper local elections. I am a huge proponent of Voter ID especially as a voter ID law would have prevented from someone else voting under my name in one election BUT this case is not what Voter ID laws should do. They should merely be a means to ascertain that you are who you claim to be. That’s it. > [@RickJay](#): > > Stuff like this never seems to come up in states controlled by Democratic legislatures and governors. I wonder why that is? Because Dems don’t care who votes: citizens, non-citizens, convicted felons, people committing voter fraud, people who can’t poke a sharp piece of metal through pre-perforated paper, etc. In fact, the ONLY time I can think of that Dems opposed voting rights was in 2000 when they tried to exclude absentee votes from military personnel in Florida. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-dakota-voter-id-law-bars-native-americans-from-polls/822839/33 "2018-10-12T17:17:14Z")
> [@](#): > > Quoth **CarnalK** : > > I have a feeling that if the Dems took away every DMV office in the state, it would not turn into the electoral windfall you imagine. Right, because Democratic voters (the ones in the cities) wouldn’t stand for something that corrupt, even if it did benefit them. EDIT: > [@](#): > > Quoth **Saint Cad** : > > In fact, the ONLY time I can think of that Dems opposed voting rights was in 2000 when they tried to exclude absentee votes from military personnel in Florida. You mean, when they argued that the same deadline for mailing absentee ballots applied equally to everyone? ---
**Author:** ![slash2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@slash2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slash2k)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-dakota-voter-id-law-bars-native-americans-from-polls/822839/34 "2018-10-12T17:24:38Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > How does this happen anyway? People on the reservation don’t live in houses? Aren’t the houses on streets? Don’t the streets have names? > > Honest question. When I was a kid growing up, we lived for awhile at “Route 2, Box 86” on the outskirts of a small town. The house was on an unnamed gravel road branching off off another road (that did have a name), but the houses on that larger road did not have street addresses assigned–you lived on Jordan Road, but your mail was addressed to Route 2, Box 63 (or whatever), and if you needed the sheriff or fire department, you lived in the third house west of the creek with the big live oak tree. Meanwhile, the county land records merely had that you lived in the northwest quarter of section 16, township 6 south, range 12 west of the 6th principal meridian (made-up numbers because I don’t remember the real ones anymore). This was in the 1980s, so not truly ancient history. With the advent of e911 systems, and particularly after 9/11 and the various federal funding initiatives since, there has been a real push to assign proper street addresses; my childhood home finally was assigned a street address in about 2005 or 6. Various newspaper articles and court filings say a similar process has been happening on the reservations in North Dakota; over the past several years, they’ve finally gotten around to assigning proper street addresses to a lot of homes that never had them before. However, the residents of those homes may not actually know what the address is (because mail delivery is still to the Route and Box, or indeed just to the post office box you’ve always used), and even the county emergency coordinators admit they might have missed a few places on the remote and sprawling reservations. ---
**Author:** ![slash2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@slash2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slash2k)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-dakota-voter-id-law-bars-native-americans-from-polls/822839/35 "2018-10-12T17:33:29Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > Because Dems don’t care who votes: citizens, non-citizens, convicted felons, people committing voter fraud, people who can’t poke a sharp piece of metal through pre-perforated paper, etc. You do realize, of course, that convicted felons are legally allowed to vote in many states (heck, [in two states](https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/states-rethink-prisoner-voting-rights-incarceration-rates-rise-n850406) prison inmates can cast ballots), and only in 1996 did federal law bar non-citizens from voting in federal elections; a few municipalities still allow non-citizens to vote in local elections. Yes, the modern Democratic Party does believe in a wide franchise, and that a nation is stronger when as many as possible of the people affected by a government’s actions have a hand in choosing that government. Meanwhile, the Republican Party seems to be hearkening back to the old idea of a more exclusive electorate, when only “deserving” people (meaning, people with money and status) get to vote. If you are a U.S. citizen but live in an area where the nearest DMV office is 60 miles away (which is apparently the mean distance to the DMV office on the Standing Rock Reservation), well, you better be wealthy enough to afford good transportation to that office if you want to vote. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-dakota-voter-id-law-bars-native-americans-from-polls/822839/36 "2018-10-12T17:44:54Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Not even Breyer or Ginsburg dissented from the Supreme Court’s decision to leave the 8th Circuit’s ruling undisturbed. Oh, really? I guess [SCOTUSblog](http://www.scotusblog.com/2018/10/court-stays-out-of-north-dakota-voting-dispute/#more-276174) is ‘fake news’, huh? > [@](#): > > Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg dissented from the court’s decision not to intervene, in a brief opinion that was joined by Justice Elena Kagan. ---
**Author:** ![Wolf333](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolf333/32/3460_2.png) [@Wolf333](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wolf333)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-dakota-voter-id-law-bars-native-americans-from-polls/822839/37 "2018-10-12T17:46:59Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Does a tribal ID prove you live on the reservation, or does it prove you’re a member of the tribe? So you would agree that military ids should not be an acceptable form of voter id? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-dakota-voter-id-law-bars-native-americans-from-polls/822839/38 "2018-10-12T17:54:48Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > I’m not sure but I would think even if it didn’t that a valid tribal id coupled with a PO box in the same district as the reservation should be sufficient to guard against voter fraud. What if it’s a large reservation that happens to include parts of more than one district? If I have a PO Box in district #3, but reside a few blocks away in district #4, should I be able to vote for candidates in district #3? ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-dakota-voter-id-law-bars-native-americans-from-polls/822839/39 "2018-10-12T17:57:34Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > North Dakota allows for tribal identification cards to be used as long as they show correct current residence. If the tribal id card does not have current residence on it, they can use a utility bill, bank statement, government check, or a paycheck. Any of which must show the “Current North Dakota Residential Address” in order to be valid. And to reiterate, the problem is that these places **don’t have** normal residential street addresses, or even a rural route number. The mail isn’t delivered to their homes, but rather to P.O. boxes. > [@](#): > > If an individual does not have that id at the time of voting they can cast a provisional ballot and it will be counted as long as they provide the id before the meeting of the canvassing board. From what Ditka has copied from the law, it looks as if the requirements are the same for the ID for provisional voting as they are for regular voting. Lot of good that does. > [@](#): > > The reason they do not accept PO boxes as address is that they are not proof of residence. Anyone can buy a PO box for five bucks a month regardless of where they live. OK, but how do these people vote? Sounds like your answer is “they can’t; sucks to be them.” ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-dakota-voter-id-law-bars-native-americans-from-polls/822839/40 "2018-10-12T18:00:09Z")
How do people on the reservation even know what district they are in without an address? Does each district have a different P.O. Box? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-dakota-voter-id-law-bars-native-americans-from-polls/822839.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-dakota-voter-id-law-bars-native-americans-from-polls/822839.md?page=3)