# North Dakota Voter ID Law Bars Native Americans from Polls **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [October 12, 2018, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-dakota-voter-id-law-bars-native-americans-from-polls/822839 "2018-10-12T05:28:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-dakota-voter-id-law-bars-native-americans-from-polls/822839/41 "2018-10-12T18:04:47Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I don’t think there was targeting in play. Keep thinking sweet thoughts. But your ‘I think’ or ‘I don’t think’ means nothing. > [@](#): > > The requirement for a non-PO box address is obvious if you want to ensure that the voter actually resides in North Dakota and in the district in which he’s voting. I can get a PO Box in North Dakota; that doesn’t make me a North Dakotan. So, does ND have a problem with out-of-state people getting PO boxes and using those PO boxes to get ND IDs, then driving back to ND on Election Day to vote? Sounds like a way of ‘fixing’ a nonexistent problem by throwing obstacles in the way of voting that primarily affect people who vote for the party that didn’t control the state government at the time the law was passed. This seems to have happened in a shitload of GOP-controlled states now, but as best as I can tell, it’s not happened in a single Dem-controlled state. Quite a coincidence there, Counselor. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-dakota-voter-id-law-bars-native-americans-from-polls/822839/42 "2018-10-12T18:05:51Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > How do people on the reservation even know what district they are in without an address? Does each district have a different P.O. Box? I don’t know, but have there been any reports that this has been a big problem in the past? ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-dakota-voter-id-law-bars-native-americans-from-polls/822839/43 "2018-10-12T18:08:02Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > I don’t know, but have there been any reports that this has been a big problem in the past? No, I didn’t mean it was a problem. I just mean really, how does one know where to vote and what candidates they are supposed to be voting for? I’m in Maryland, and while I don’t know for sure, I assume they tell me my voting place and list of candidates based on my address. Just wondering how it works in N.D. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-dakota-voter-id-law-bars-native-americans-from-polls/822839/44 "2018-10-12T18:20:25Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > Because Dems don’t care who votes: citizens, non-citizens, convicted felons, people committing voter fraud, people who can’t poke a sharp piece of metal through pre-perforated paper, etc. Boy howdy, it’s easy to make stuff up and say it like it was fact. > [@](#): > > In fact, the ONLY time I can think of that Dems opposed voting rights was in 2000 when they tried to exclude absentee votes from military personnel in Florida. You mean [the ballots that had no postmarks](https://gking.harvard.edu/files/gking/files/ballots.pdf), and should have been tossed out according to Florida election law because nobody could tell if they were cast on Election Day, or a day or two later? Hey, I’m good with that, as long as we open up that day-after deal to anyone, in any close election. We shoulda done that in 2016, amirite? Give people in WI and PA and MI a second chance to cast their ballot, once they knew how crucial it was? ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-dakota-voter-id-law-bars-native-americans-from-polls/822839/45 "2018-10-12T18:43:27Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > How do people on the reservation even know what district they are in without an address? Does each district have a different P.O. Box? Probably — and this is not only applied to reservations but to many rural communities. There are parts of the US where people just did not traditionally have an address of the form “(Road Name/Number), (House Number)” on a fixed baseline grid. In drawing up the election districts, precincts and wards, the states will make the division discrete only to the Census Tract level, rather than to the house-by-house level if they don’t have to. So they refer to THAT map where generally any clustered community will be one tract. If it’s a small reservation, its tracts may add up to a self-contained single ward anyway. In a larger reservation or just a larger rural area you may have an issue if Mr. Voter lives in a cabin on a hill exactly three miles from the closest neighbor in each direction and the last mile is by mule trail, but somewhere the local authority has a map saying what tract amd ward he’s in. If the various authorities have their act together, in such communities the local authorities will sit with the postmaster and draw up a distribution, by which for instance, residents in tract 1 will be on postal route 11, boxes numbered 10\*\*\*, tract 2 will be on postal route 11, Boxes numbered 20\*\*\*, tract 3 will be postal route 11, Boxes 30\*\*\* and so forth, and the elections apportionment people will use that to define who is in what district. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-dakota-voter-id-law-bars-native-americans-from-polls/822839/46 "2018-10-12T18:44:56Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > No, I didn’t mean it was a problem. I just mean really, how does one know where to vote and what candidates they are supposed to be voting for? I’m in Maryland, and while I don’t know for sure, I assume they tell me my voting place and list of candidates based on my address. Just wondering how it works in N.D. Damned if I know. So long as _somebody_ had it figured out, I’ll confess that’s the end of my curiosity. > [@](#): > > I’m in Maryland You’re a Maryland manson, then? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-dakota-voter-id-law-bars-native-americans-from-polls/822839/47 "2018-10-12T18:58:48Z")
Indian land aside, this sounds like a law denying the franchise to homeless persons. That, like any restriction of civil rights based on present economic position, seems intrinsically abusive. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-dakota-voter-id-law-bars-native-americans-from-polls/822839/48 "2018-10-12T19:11:34Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > Probably — and this is not only applied to reservations but to many rural communities. There are parts of the US where people just did not traditionally have an address of the form “(Road Name/Number), (House Number)” on a fixed baseline grid. > > In drawing up the election districts, precincts and wards, the states will make the division discrete only to the Census Tract level, rather than to the house-by-house level if they don’t have to. So they refer to THAT map where generally any clustered community will be one tract. > > If it’s a small reservation, its tracts may add up to a self-contained single ward anyway. > > In a larger reservation or just a larger rural area you may have an issue if Mr. Voter lives in a cabin on a hill exactly three miles from the closest neighbor in each direction and the last mile is by mule trail, but somewhere the local authority has a map saying what tract amd ward he’s in. > > If the various authorities have their act together, in such communities the local authorities will sit with the postmaster and draw up a distribution, by which for instance, residents in tract 1 will be on postal route 11, boxes numbered 10\*\*\*, tract 2 will be on postal route 11, Boxes numbered 20\*\*\*, tract 3 will be postal route 11, Boxes 30\*\*\* and so forth, and the elections apportionment people will use that to define who is in what district. Great, thanks for the info! > [@RTFirefly](#): > > You’re a Maryland manson, then? 😉 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-dakota-voter-id-law-bars-native-americans-from-polls/822839/49 "2018-10-12T19:11:36Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I’m saying there’s no one in this thread whose OPINION of what is “wrong,” is remotely persuasive to me. Yeah, no shit. You have made it clear, repeatedly, that you don’t care what methods republicans use to suppress democratic votes. What was, to date, unclear, was whether you were okay with it when it was clear and unambiguous that, as a result of these laws, certain citizens would be stripped of their right to vote. Now we know. Good for you. I’m sure when democracy in the US ends, you’ll be real happy. Except… maybe one thing to think about. Last I checked, you were hispanic. D’y’know how the people doing this feel about hispanic people? When they’ve effectively ended democracy, in the vein of Putin, Erdogan, or Orban, do you think this somehow ends _well_ for you? ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-dakota-voter-id-law-bars-native-americans-from-polls/822839/50 "2018-10-12T19:21:37Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Right, because Democratic voters (the ones in the cities) wouldn’t stand for something that corrupt, even if it did benefit them. Uh no. It would be because you’d be fucking up people’s and businesses’ real day to day life. Seriously, it’s a dumb answer to my original question of what the Dems could do. Real dumb. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-dakota-voter-id-law-bars-native-americans-from-polls/822839/51 "2018-10-12T19:56:30Z")
There’s a suggestion on Twitter for the Native Americans effected by this law to call 911 and ask them what address is showing up on their monitors, since 911 in ND is required to show a location and not a mailing address. Of course, they could get into trouble for calling 911 for a non-emergency, but it might get somebody in ND to take notice. ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-dakota-voter-id-law-bars-native-americans-from-polls/822839/52 "2018-10-12T19:59:05Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > Except… maybe one thing to think about. Last I checked, you were hispanic. D’y’know how the people doing this feel about hispanic people? When they’ve effectively ended democracy, in the vein of Putin, Erdogan, or Orban, do you think this somehow ends _well_ for you? Maybe Bricker figures that since he’s a rich Hispanic citizen, he’ll be okay. He benefits from the tax cuts and won’t be deported. Bricker may be counting on the GOP’s racism to either hold steady or decline, and the Richard Spencer types won’t completely take over. It’s not a gamble I would take, but he’s entitled to his opinion. Just like the [Jews who supported Hitler](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_of_German_National_Jews) were entitled to their opinion. It seemed like a good idea at the time. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-dakota-voter-id-law-bars-native-americans-from-polls/822839/53 "2018-10-12T19:59:58Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > There’s a suggestion on Twitter for the Native Americans effected by this law to call 911 and ask them what address is showing up on their monitors, since 911 in ND is required to show a location and not a mailing address. Of course, they could get into trouble for calling 911 for a non-emergency, but it might get somebody in ND to take notice. “My right to vote is being infringed upon in a critical election” sure seems like an emergency to me. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-dakota-voter-id-law-bars-native-americans-from-polls/822839/54 "2018-10-12T20:00:45Z")
The GOP controls many largely rural states. A number of these states - I’m thinking about Appalachian states like WV and KY, and central PA - have a lot of areas where houses don’t have residential addresses. But in these states, a law like ND’s would largely act to disenfranchise rural whites. Like I said in the Georgia thread, I’m anxious\* to see whether GOP-dominated state governments pass ND-like laws in these other states. \*Who am I kidding? Of course I’m not anxious to see whether this will happen anywhere. OF COURSE it won’t happen. No way, no how. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-dakota-voter-id-law-bars-native-americans-from-polls/822839/55 "2018-10-12T20:05:26Z")
North Dakota seems to be the only state where voters don’t need to register before they vote. In other states, don’t you need to provide an address to register to vote? ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-dakota-voter-id-law-bars-native-americans-from-polls/822839/56 "2018-10-12T21:07:41Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > There’s a suggestion on Twitter for the Native Americans effected by this law to call 911 and ask them what address is showing up on their monitors, since 911 in ND is required to show a location and not a mailing address. Of course, they could get into trouble for calling 911 for a non-emergency, but it might get somebody in ND to take notice. This seems like about par for Twitter suggestions, right in line with microwaving your iPhone to recharge it, and [#JumpAgainstTrump](https://twitter.com/hashtag/jumpagainsttrump?lang=en). I don’t feel like our democracy is suffering a great loss if the people dumb enough to follow these sort of suggestions don’t vote. ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-dakota-voter-id-law-bars-native-americans-from-polls/822839/57 "2018-10-12T21:42:31Z")
> [@Doctor\_Jackson](#): > > Sigh. > > Granted, the address requirement is stupid. Not granted, it was malicious. > > 1. North Dakota has been a solidly red state, [voting republican](https://www.270towin.com/states/North_Dakota)for the past 30+ years (presidential elections). The highest % Dems have recorded in the last 2 decades is 45% in 2008, and that was an anomaly. In 2016 Repubs carried ND by more than 2-1, which is more the norm. Why waste a malicious effort is a state where it wouldn’t matter? The state is represented by a female Democrat in the Senate. She polled well among Amerinds during her election. The law in question was passed relatively quickly thereafter by the Republican dominated state legislature. Connect the dots. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-dakota-voter-id-law-bars-native-americans-from-polls/822839/58 "2018-10-12T22:03:05Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > Probably — and this is not only applied to reservations but to many rural communities. Let’s say that there are 1,000 PO Boxes in ND. (I’m sure there are a great deal more). Are you saying that there are 1,000 election districts, then? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![slash2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@slash2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slash2k)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-dakota-voter-id-law-bars-native-americans-from-polls/822839/59 "2018-10-12T23:51:18Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > This seems like about par for Twitter suggestions, right in line with microwaving your iPhone to recharge it, and [#JumpAgainstTrump](https://twitter.com/hashtag/jumpagainsttrump?lang=en). I don’t feel like our democracy is suffering a great loss if the people dumb enough to follow these sort of suggestions don’t vote. Well, how would you suggest finding out what address the government assigned to your residence, when they didn’t bother to tell you what it was? (And one of the articles linked upthread quoted a county official in North Dakota who admitted there was a real problem in his county with people not knowing the address he’d assigned them in the past few years.) Remember, internet access is at best spotty on the reservation (I saw today that about ten percent of reservation residents have internet access, although I’m not sure whether that is specific to the Standing Rock), and anyway looking at Google Maps today I saw lots of roads that Google shows only as “unnamed road.” The post office likely delivers only to your PO box or to the community cluster mailbox at a route and box#, so they’re no real help. Who would you call? (The recommended answer, according to various newspaper articles, is your county 911 coordinator, who is most likely the person who assigned the address in the first place, although I presume they want you to call on his or her non-emergency line.) ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-dakota-voter-id-law-bars-native-americans-from-polls/822839/60 "2018-10-12T23:52:19Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Uh no. It would be because you’d be fucking up people’s and businesses’ real day to day life. Seriously, it’s a dumb answer to my original question of what the Dems could do. Real dumb. That doesn’t stop the GOP. They have no problem shutting down DMVs and fucking up people’s and businesses’ real day to day life. It does stop the Dems. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-dakota-voter-id-law-bars-native-americans-from-polls/822839.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-dakota-voter-id-law-bars-native-americans-from-polls/822839.md?page=4)