# North Dakota Voter ID Law Bars Native Americans from Polls **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [October 12, 2018, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-dakota-voter-id-law-bars-native-americans-from-polls/822839 "2018-10-12T05:28:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2018, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-dakota-voter-id-law-bars-native-americans-from-polls/822839/61 "2018-10-13T01:59:23Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > That doesn’t stop the GOP. They have no problem shutting down DMVs and fucking up people’s and businesses’ real day to day life. > > It does stop the Dems. Uh huh. That’s why Dems would never gerrymander, right? ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2018, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-dakota-voter-id-law-bars-native-americans-from-polls/822839/62 "2018-10-13T02:52:58Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > This seems like about par for Twitter suggestions, right in line with microwaving your iPhone to recharge it, and [#JumpAgainstTrump](https://twitter.com/hashtag/jumpagainsttrump?lang=en). I don’t feel like our democracy is suffering a great loss if the people dumb enough to follow these sort of suggestions don’t vote. How would you suggest they be allowed to register if they have to have an address but don’t have one? ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2018, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-dakota-voter-id-law-bars-native-americans-from-polls/822839/63 "2018-10-13T03:16:05Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Not to say that they would but the fact is that traditional Dem voters are just easier to target. Can you think of some equivalent move that would knock out a big Republican demographic with so little impact on the Dem vote? Cut back on DMVs and polling stations in rural areas. Eliminate early voting in rural areas. Its not that hard. Just target rural white voters. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2018, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-dakota-voter-id-law-bars-native-americans-from-polls/822839/64 "2018-10-13T03:52:47Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > Cut back on DMVs and polling stations in rural areas. > Eliminate early voting in rural areas. > > Its not that hard. Just target rural white voters. The problem is that rural whites aren’t as uniformly Republican voters as say the black or native on a reservation Dem vote. Maybe it would work in some states but I’d have to get more into the weeds to think it’s such an obvious winner. Eta: and that strategy would only be useful for statewide elections. If everyone in the rural white district is equally impacted, R still wins. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2018, 10:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-dakota-voter-id-law-bars-native-americans-from-polls/822839/65 "2018-10-13T10:35:57Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Not to say that they would but the fact is that traditional Dem voters are just easier to target. Can you think of some equivalent move that would knock out a big Republican demographic with so little impact on the Dem vote? The ND law would have that effect in places like WV, KY, central PA, and SW VA. The further south you go, the more rural blacks would get caught up in its net, though. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2018, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-dakota-voter-id-law-bars-native-americans-from-polls/822839/66 "2018-10-13T14:20:23Z")
From the [DailyBeast](https://www.thedailybeast.com/republicans-have-a-secret-weapon-in-the-midterms-voter-suppression): > [@](#): > > [Midterm] voters will be confronted by a byzantine array of voter restrictions, voter-suppression efforts, and voter discrimination standing in their way. A review by The Daily Beast found at least five voter-suppression practices in active use today. All are led by Republicans, all have disproportionate effects on non-white populations, and all are rationalized by bogus claims of voter fraud. They include: > > - Closing polling places in communities of color > - Purging eligible voters from the rolls without their knowledge > - Barring felons from voting > - Voter ID laws > - Eliminating early voting > > Each one of these alone is troubling. In the aggregate, though, they paint an unmistakable picture of Republican efforts to hold on to power in an increasingly non-white nation by making it harder for non-white people to vote. That’s just the summary. Click the link for the whole thing. (Cross-posted to the Georgia thread.) ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2018, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-dakota-voter-id-law-bars-native-americans-from-polls/822839/67 "2018-10-13T15:10:25Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > Let’s say that there are 1,000 PO Boxes in ND. (I’m sure there are a great deal more). Are you saying that there are 1,000 election districts, then? 😕 No and I did not say that. However I can see where it may have not been clear I was not talking about PO Boxes: I was responding to **manson1972** ’s question about what could be done to work with people who do not have or do not what is a standard “gridded” address of their home(\*\*\*\*\*), and I referred to an earlier post mentioning people whose mail is delivered to _rural postal route numbers_, rather than to a “traditional”, “25347 North Thelma Hwy., Louisetown” address. So in those cases, if the authorities are properly organized, the local authority and the Post Office may have a look at the maps and assign a range of route box numbers per each tract/community/population cluster so that those numbers are associated with particular locations. So as I said, for example, one strategy could be such tract having the boxes numbered in the 30\*\*\* range, meaning 30001 to 30999, and someone somewhere has a table correlating that with _inside which election ward and district it is located_. _ **IF** _. Otherwise yes there’s issues. Actual _Post Office_ boxes as mentioned you can just show up and rent and you don’t have to reside inside the service area. Now, if the population of the reservation is small enough, you could as I said just declare it a single ward and any resident is in that ward. Then the issue becomes how do you get the state to accept a tribal evidence of residence as good enough. (\*Heck, many people who \*do \*have a standard address, if they look in the registry they’ll find their home reads not “15251 Clint St., Eastwood”, but “Subsection 45A-15, Lot C, Dustin Township, Hoffman County” or some such opaque survey designation, because the assignment of that street number and name, and having it served from the Eastwood PO, happened later) ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2018, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-dakota-voter-id-law-bars-native-americans-from-polls/822839/68 "2018-10-13T15:55:39Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Uh huh. That’s why Dems would never gerrymander, right? Ummm, how does that in any way, shape, or form, have anything to do with my post? You said that shutting down DMV’s fuck up people’s daily lives. The democrats have not done that, the republicans have. What in the name of Fred does that have to do with your little attempt at a tu quoque fallacy? > [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > Cut back on DMVs and polling stations in rural areas. > Eliminate early voting in rural areas. > > Its not that hard. Just target rural white voters. Instead of putting in a polling station based on land, put them in based on population. Have a polling station for every X residents, located to be in the center of that population. Now urban areas have only a few feet to walk to a polling place if rural areas don’t want to have to drive 30 miles. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2018, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-dakota-voter-id-law-bars-native-americans-from-polls/822839/69 "2018-10-13T16:53:51Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > The problem is that rural whites aren’t as uniformly Republican voters as say the black or native on a reservation Dem vote. Maybe it would work in some states but I’d have to get more into the weeds to think it’s such an obvious winner. > > Eta: and that strategy would only be useful for statewide elections. If everyone in the rural white district is equally impacted, R still wins. Rural whites tend to be about 70-75% republican. That is pretty partisan. Not as partisan as black voters, but more partisan than latinos and about as partisan as LGBT. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2018, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-dakota-voter-id-law-bars-native-americans-from-polls/822839/70 "2018-10-13T21:10:18Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Ummm, how does that in any way, shape, or form, have anything to do with my post? You said that shutting down DMV’s fuck up people’s daily lives. The democrats have not done that, the republicans have. What in the name of Fred does that have to do with your little attempt at a tu quoque fallacy?. It’s not a tu quoque fallacy. You are claiming a moral high ground and I’m pointing out that the Dems can play the trickster game too. I think that a big reason Dems don’t try to disenfranchise rural white voters is because it would be difficult to accomplish and no guarantee of a meaningful affect. Tell me, if the Dems were as amoral as Republicans then which state would they enact this “close all the rural DMVs” plan? ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2018, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-dakota-voter-id-law-bars-native-americans-from-polls/822839/71 "2018-10-13T21:15:07Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > Rural whites tend to be about 70-75% republican. That is pretty partisan. Not as partisan as black voters, but more partisan than latinos and about as partisan as LGBT. Do you have a cite for that? This Pew article suggests a much closer divide of 54-38. [http://www.people-press.org/2018/03/20/1-trends-in-party-affiliation-among-demographic-groups/2\_18/](http://www.people-press.org/2018/03/20/1-trends-in-party-affiliation-among-demographic-groups/2_18/) ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2018, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-dakota-voter-id-law-bars-native-americans-from-polls/822839/72 "2018-10-13T21:46:22Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > It’s not a tu quoque fallacy. You are claiming a moral high ground and I’m pointing out that the Dems can play the trickster game too. I think that a big reason Dems don’t try to disenfranchise rural white voters is because it would be difficult to accomplish and no guarantee of a meaningful affect. Tell me, if the Dems were as amoral as Republicans then which state would they enact this “close all the rural DMVs” plan? They can, but they don’t. That you think that they would doesn’t make them hypocrites, it just makes you a defender of the behavior of vote suppressors. What “close all the rural DMVs” plan? I said nothing about any “close all the rural DMVs”. You aren’t even addressing anything at all in my post. I have no idea what you are talking about, and I’m doubting you do either. But, I could point out that closing polling places in rural areas, and getting rid of absentee ballots would harm republicans much more than democrats. Democrats don’t do that. I would object if democrats did that. One of my biggest fear is that voter enfranchisement becomes a weapon of political parties, so I will speak out against it even when it works in my favor. Do you object when republicans do things that make it harder for people who tend to vote for democrats to vote? No, you are here, defending them for the practice. I am not claiming the moral high ground, you are running from it as fast as you can. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2018, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-dakota-voter-id-law-bars-native-americans-from-polls/822839/73 "2018-10-13T21:50:47Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Do you have a cite for that? This Pew article suggests a much closer divide of 54-38. > > [http://www.people-press.org/2018/03/20/1-trends-in-party-affiliation-among-demographic-groups/2\_18/](http://www.people-press.org/2018/03/20/1-trends-in-party-affiliation-among-demographic-groups/2_18/) Right, that is because you are looking at rural, not rural whites. That does make a difference, as rural does not automatically mean white. Once you drop them out, and only look at the rural whites, yes, it is much higher than your irrelevant cite says. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2018, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-dakota-voter-id-law-bars-native-americans-from-polls/822839/74 "2018-10-13T22:11:32Z")
Rural Americans are about 90% white. I’ll wait for the cite rather than your irrelevant guess. > [@](#): > > What “close all the rural DMVs” plan? I said nothing about any “close all the rural DMVs”. You aren’t even addressing anything at all in my post. I have no idea what you are talking about, and I’m doubting you do either. It’s what I was talking about with Chronos and Waverly in this very thread. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2018, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-dakota-voter-id-law-bars-native-americans-from-polls/822839/75 "2018-10-13T22:19:52Z")
In post#68, you were responding to that “close the rural DMVs” plan conversation. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2018, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-dakota-voter-id-law-bars-native-americans-from-polls/822839/76 "2018-10-13T22:36:32Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Rural Americans are about 90% white. I’ll wait for the cite rather than your irrelevant guess. Do you have a cite for that as well? Your first cite didn’t address the post it was aimed at. But, we’ll start with your numbers. Assuming that whites vote 70% for republicans, and are 90% of the population, and that minorities vote primarily for democrats, puts all rural voters at about 62% republican, not that far from the cite that you feel is relevant to this thread. You are also looking at the country as a whole, rather than individual states or even counties, where these tactics would take place. Unless you are trying to claim that your stats are the same everywhere, then once again, they are useless for the purposes of this thread. > [@](#): > > It’s what I was talking about with Chronos and Waverly in this very thread. Yeah, I saw them talking about it as a hypothetical analogue to the republicans\* actually\* shutting down DMVs in primarily black areas, I did not see it floated as a serious proposal, and I was not involved in that discussion at all, so I ask you, why did you address your question to me, as if it were something serious that I was talking about? Is it just that you are proud that the strategy that republican are using to try to disenfranchise democratic leaning demographics won’t work as well if the democrats used it on republicans? Is that what it is, you think that because the republicans have devised this absolutely brilliant plan to hold onto power, that the democrats would copy it, but they just aren’t smart enough to figure out a way to suppress the votes of their political opponents? Look, you are the one charging hypocrisy here, so it is up to you to find an analogue of what the democrats are doing to suppress the votes of republicans. If you think that we’d love to do so, but just can’t figure out a way to, then at least come out and say that. “You would do the same” is the weakest, most indefensible charge of hypocrisy possible, and it is what you are really trying to push here. > [@CarnalK](#): > > In post#68, you were responding to that “close the rural DMVs” plan conversation. So, responding to a post is the same as advocating anything in that post? Good to know for the future. Unless you show where I said anything about closing down DMV’s, you should stop bringing it up, over and over when actually discussing with me, thank you. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2018, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-dakota-voter-id-law-bars-native-americans-from-polls/822839/77 "2018-10-13T22:47:38Z")
Wtf, dude? I didn’t say you advocated jack shit but you did insert yourself into that side conversation. ---
**Author:** ![F.U.Shakespeare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/aca169/32.png) [@F.U.Shakespeare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/F.U.Shakespeare)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2018, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-dakota-voter-id-law-bars-native-americans-from-polls/822839/78 "2018-10-13T23:11:46Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Do you have a cite for that? This Pew article suggests a much closer divide of 54-38. > > [http://www.people-press.org/2018/03/20/1-trends-in-party-affiliation-among-demographic-groups/2\_18/](http://www.people-press.org/2018/03/20/1-trends-in-party-affiliation-among-demographic-groups/2_18/) That article enumerates “% of registered voters who \*identify \*as X”. That’s not the same statistic as how they vote. My home state (West Virginia) voted for Trump something like 70-30, but party identification is much less Republican. This is partly because WV used to be (and vote) heavily Democratic, and party affiliation may not have responded yet to changing voting patterns. In such a state, voting patterns, more so than party identification, would determine the effectiveness of the hypothetical Democratic voter suppression measures being discussed here. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2018, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-dakota-voter-id-law-bars-native-americans-from-polls/822839/79 "2018-10-14T00:06:14Z")
I’ve been trying to keep up in this thread, but it’s been moving very fast, so if this point has been discussed already, my apologies. Is there a way for a voter to cast a provisional ballot, even if not in the voters’ list? Or to swear an affidavit to vote? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2018, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-dakota-voter-id-law-bars-native-americans-from-polls/822839/80 "2018-10-14T15:38:46Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > Yeah, no shit. You have made it clear, repeatedly, that you don’t care what methods republicans use to suppress democratic votes. What was, to date, unclear, was whether you were okay with it when it was clear and unambiguous that, as a result of these laws, certain citizens would be stripped of their right to vote. > > Now we know. Good for you. I’m sure when democracy in the US ends, you’ll be real happy. > > Except… maybe one thing to think about. Last I checked, you were hispanic. D’y’know how the people doing this feel about hispanic people? When they’ve effectively ended democracy, in the vein of Putin, Erdogan, or Orban, do you think this somehow ends _well_ for you? No one is being stripped of a right to vote. They can return the card. They can cast a provisional ballot. Not remotely Putin-esque. The people who suffer under Erdogan would be THRILLED. to have a vote that counted if all they had to do was return a postcard. You … you do understand that, yes? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-dakota-voter-id-law-bars-native-americans-from-polls/822839.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-dakota-voter-id-law-bars-native-americans-from-polls/822839.md?page=5)