# North Korea claims it has detonated a hydrogen bomb. **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [January 6, 2016, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-claims-it-has-detonated-a-hydrogen-bomb/742290 "2016-01-06T03:59:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2016, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-claims-it-has-detonated-a-hydrogen-bomb/742290/21 "2016-01-06T20:53:47Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > The graphic in [this report](http://edition.cnn.com/2016/01/06/asia/north-korea-hydrogen-bomb-test/index.html) shows a range of 5600 miles or 9000 kilometers. But this is hard to believe. Surely that can’t be right. Maybe with a brisk tail wind…? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2016, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-claims-it-has-detonated-a-hydrogen-bomb/742290/22 "2016-01-06T21:05:04Z")
They claimed credit for an earthquake after the fact. Wait for the next eclipse-they’ll claim it was caused by their supersecrit stealth giant bomber. ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Wayne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4bbf92/32.png) [@Charlie\_Wayne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Wayne)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2016, 10:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-claims-it-has-detonated-a-hydrogen-bomb/742290/23 "2016-01-07T10:12:57Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > The graphic in [this report](http://edition.cnn.com/2016/01/06/asia/north-korea-hydrogen-bomb-test/index.html) shows a range of 5600 miles or 9000 kilometers. But this is hard to believe. Surely that can’t be right. I believe you live closer to NK than most other members here. If you don’t mind, I’d like to ask you a question. If you were to guess, if NK ever did use a nuke to attack another country, what country would that be? I would guess the most probable one would be South Korea. It’s closer than most other countries and would likely be easier to hit than any other country. Also, NK & SK have a long and bitter history. But Japan seems to be on the verge of losing its mind over this and I can certainly understand why. I would guess Japan would be a close second choice. NK talks a lot about the USA being an enemy. But I would doubt that NK would try and attack the USA. Not only would it be very difficult for them to hit anywhere in the USA, but if I was the USA, I would strike back by hitting NK with enough nukes to wipe them off the face of the earth. I wouldn’t want a single member of the government to survive. But that raises a second question. How likely would it be that USA would be able to do that? Would there be problems from some of NK’s neighbors? I would think SK would want to see that level of retribution - even if it meant that some of their citizens would be injured by the fallout. China might be a different story. I’d very much like to know your opinion on this however. If you don’t want to answer these questions, I will certainly understand. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2016, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-claims-it-has-detonated-a-hydrogen-bomb/742290/24 "2016-01-08T01:54:49Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > The graphic in [this report](http://edition.cnn.com/2016/01/06/asia/north-korea-hydrogen-bomb-test/index.html) shows a range of 5600 miles or 9000 kilometers. But this is hard to believe. Surely that can’t be right. > [@Diceman](#): > > What’s hard to believe about it? We were making rockets that could reach the Moon in the 1960’s. Plus, North Korea has gotten plenty of off-the-books help from China (and maybe Russia) over the years. It’s hard to believe because reports keep debating if they could even manage to lob one at Seoul, but there that chart shows they can reach the mainland US and Europe. 😕 > [@Charlie\_Wayne](#): > > I believe you live closer to NK than most other members here. If you don’t mind, I’d like to ask you a question. > > If you were to guess, if NK ever did use a nuke to attack another country, what country would that be? > > I would guess the most probable one would be South Korea. It’s closer than most other countries and would likely be easier to hit than any other country. Also, NK & SK have a long and bitter history. > > But Japan seems to be on the verge of losing its mind over this and I can certainly understand why. I would guess Japan would be a close second choice. > > NK talks a lot about the USA being an enemy. But I would doubt that NK would try and attack the USA. Not only would it be very difficult for them to hit anywhere in the USA, but if I was the USA, I would strike back by hitting NK with enough nukes to wipe them off the face of the earth. I wouldn’t want a single member of the government to survive. > > But that raises a second question. How likely would it be that USA would be able to do that? Would there be problems from some of NK’s neighbors? I would think SK would want to see that level of retribution - even if it meant that some of their citizens would be injured by the fallout. > > China might be a different story. I’d very much like to know your opinion on this however. > > If you don’t want to answer these questions, I will certainly understand. 😕 I’m in Thailand. No one here is expecting a nuke. But Thailand has diplomatic relations with North Korea, so I’m sure if the embassy in Bangkok suddenly cleared out, then that might be a signal. ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Wayne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4bbf92/32.png) [@Charlie\_Wayne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Wayne)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2016, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-claims-it-has-detonated-a-hydrogen-bomb/742290/25 "2016-01-08T02:19:55Z")
Siam Sam, I’m quite certain you are correct about that. We certainly do live in frightful times. I sure do wish I could figure out whether NK is just trying to bluff its way into getting some handouts or if they really do believe the rhetoric they seem to continually spout. I don’t mind telling you that I’m seriously scared and if many world leaders feel that same way, it sure wouldn’t take much for one of them to be the first to light the match in an effort to remove NK from the world’s scene. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2016, 8:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-claims-it-has-detonated-a-hydrogen-bomb/742290/26 "2016-01-08T08:06:33Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > They claimed credit for an earthquake after the fact. Doesn’t a nuke release all energy in a split second, whereas an earthquake releases continuously over 30-50 seconds? Would make for vastly different seismological readings? ---
**Author:** ![buddha\_david](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ee7513/32.png) [@buddha\_david](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buddha_david)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2016, 11:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-claims-it-has-detonated-a-hydrogen-bomb/742290/27 "2016-01-08T11:19:28Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Doesn’t a nuke release all energy in a split second, whereas an earthquake releases continuously over 30-50 seconds? Would make for vastly different seismological readings? Short answer: Yes, earthquakes caused by nuclear tests have a very different seismographic signature than natural events. In addition, this event was very close to the surface, whereas most earthquakes occur far deeper underground. ([Link.](https://www.sciencenews.org/blog/science-ticker/five-things-science-can-and-cant-tell-us-about-north-koreas-nuclear-test)) However, even large earthquakes can release all their energy extremely quickly. The 6.7 Northridge Quake, for example, only lasted 10 to 20 seconds. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2016, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-claims-it-has-detonated-a-hydrogen-bomb/742290/28 "2016-01-08T16:57:22Z")
Did the Fear Leader fart again? Oh my. ---
**Author:** ![JoseB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/joseb/32/1530_2.png) [@JoseB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoseB)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2016, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-claims-it-has-detonated-a-hydrogen-bomb/742290/29 "2016-01-09T05:43:07Z")
Just got this as a kind of meme from some Chinese friends in China (translated from Chinese): NK: Hey, brother! Guess what! I got the H-bomb! China: Well, good for you… NK: So, if somebody pisses me off, will you stand up for me and help me? China: Why should I?? You have the H-bomb! Do it yourself! NK: Weeeell, you see, our missiles are shit, they fall short and can’t really aim them, so the only one I would be able to hit with them is you… (Title of the story: “A really pathetic tale”) ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2016, 5:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-claims-it-has-detonated-a-hydrogen-bomb/742290/30 "2016-01-09T05:55:21Z")
Did anyone see footage of the “citizens’ reactions”? A group of people, all 30-somethings, were lined up in a perfect checkerboard formation, and they all reacted in the same way, with the same body gestures, when the “news” broke. I also noticed that Kim Jong Whateverhisnameallegedlyis was the only well-nourished looking person on the podium. Even his minions looked like they were on the verge of starvation. ---
**Author:** ![usedtobe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ec9cab/32.png) [@usedtobe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/usedtobe)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2016, 7:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-claims-it-has-detonated-a-hydrogen-bomb/742290/31 "2016-01-09T07:17:53Z")
Ever wonder how they got so many “soldiers”? In DPRK, the army is the best you can hope for - they get fed before anyone else in town. Look closely at the soldiers - THEY are emaciated. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2016, 8:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-claims-it-has-detonated-a-hydrogen-bomb/742290/32 "2016-01-09T08:35:09Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > I’m skeptical that China didn’t know about this test and doesn’t know how the program is going in general. Why are you skeptical? China doesn’t rule North Korea and, in fact, isn’t all that thrilled with the DPRK’s latest stunt. They’re so un-thrilled with it that China’s suspended some business with NK. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2016, 8:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-claims-it-has-detonated-a-hydrogen-bomb/742290/33 "2016-01-09T08:42:06Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > I’m kinda looking forward to the day China has to deal with 20 million malnourished, physically and mentally stunted refugees. > > The have had a good part in making this mess. So long as China has the People’s Liberation Army, that’ll never happen. The instant it looks like there will be a massive influx of refugees over the North Korean border, the PLA will be deployed all along it in strength. ---
**Author:** ![Gray\_Ghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c0e974/32.png) [@Gray\_Ghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gray_Ghost)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2016, 9:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-claims-it-has-detonated-a-hydrogen-bomb/742290/34 "2016-01-09T09:07:00Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Is it possible for a thermonuclear weapon to be \*weaker \*than 7 kilotons? Depending on your definition of “thermonuclear”, sure. Borrowing (o.k., stealing) heavily from [Dr. Carey Sublette’s Nuclear Weapon Archive](http://nuclearweaponarchive.org/Nwfaq/Nfaq4-3.html), he wrote the following about the “[Neutron Bomb](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neutron_bomb)”, or Enhanced Radiation Weapon: > [@](#): > > Taken together, these considerations make it evident that **neutron bombs are miniaturized variants of staged radiation implosion fusion bombs** (see Sections on Thermonuclear Weapons below). [Emphasis and paragraph break added] > > The fissile mass is separated from the fusion fuel, which is compressed and heated by the thermal radiation flux from the fissile core. Due to the small mass of the fusion fuel, and the low temperature of ignition, a fission spark plug internal to the fusion capsule is not necessary to ignite the reaction. The ignition probably occurs when the thermal radiation diffuses through the pusher/tamper wall of the fusion capsule. It is also possible that the localized region of intense heating that develops when the shock in the fuel capsule converges at the center may be responsible for, or contribute to, the ignition of the fusion reaction (this is similar to the ignition process in inertial confinement fusion experiments). The [W70](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W70) warhead for the U.S., MGM-52 [Lance](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MGM-52_Lance) tactical nuclear surface-to-surface missile was an enhanced radiation device, with a selectable yield from 1 to 100 kt. The warhead was designed to put relatively more of its energy output towards generating "[fast" neutrons](http://www.britannica.com/science/fast-neutron), instead of thermal radiation. The neutrons generated from fusing deuterium or tritium are much more energetic than the neutrons generated from fissioning either Uranium-235 or Plutonium-239. More energetic neutrons will travel further. I don’t know enough to state certainly, but if more energetic neutrons are less likely to be captured by target nuclei, and therefore transmute those target nuclei into radioactive isotopes, does that mean that more energetic neutrons are less likely to result in long-lasting radioactivity than neutrons from an ordinary nuclear device? In any event, [the neutrons from even a small, ordinary A-bomb within 615 yards of the explosion, are sufficiently energetic to penetrate through battleship armor,](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Crossroads) and thoroughly irradiate whatever hapless critter is hiding within. Anyway, also as a general rule, ionizing radiation output for nuclear devices scales much more slowly as yield increases, than does thermal output and its associated air blast. Accordingly, with small yields, the prompt radiation effects can extend out further than either blast or heat, which is the whole point of a bomb that will kill via ionizing radiation, yet leave buildings standing. All of this is to say that for a neutron bomb, you want a fusion reaction (thermonuclear) to get fast neutrons, and you want the overall bomb to be small. Since you need a fission trigger to initiate fusion—you need an A-bomb to set off an H-bomb—and A-bomb explosions tend to be anything other than “small”, this is a toughy. On the yield of the NK tests, this [brief description of an article](http://www2.le.ac.uk/departments/geology/news/history-of-seismology-meeting/abstracts-in-alphabetical-order/talk-abstracts/earthquakes-explosions-and-north-korean-nuclear-tests) from Dr. Anton Ziolkowski, professor of Petroleum Geoscience at the University of Edinburgh, may be of interest. [Canonically](https://str.llnl.gov/str/Walter.html), underground nuclear explosions are differentiated from other seismic events by their tremendous bias towards compression waves ([P-Waves](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P-wave)) vs shear waves [(S-Waves](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S-wave)) on a seismogram. This depends greatly on the local geologic environment surrounding the explosion, and for whatever reason, the NK test area explosions don’t show this very well. Professor Ziolkowski analyzed various seismograms for previous NK alleged nuclear device tests, and determined he could differentiate the tests from seismic activity, as well as determine the yield for each test, by looking at their source time functions. Akin I think, to what you were saying upthread, **Velocity** , about the time for an earthquake’s energy vs. a nuke’s. To make a long story short, he determined the latest test at the time of his paper, the 2013 test, had a yield of about 5.5 kt, give or take 30 percent. As [the latest test](https://ds.iris.edu/ds/nodes/dmc/specialevents/2016/01/05/2016-north-korean-nuclear-test/), like [the 2013 test](http://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquakes/eventpage/usc000f5t0#general_summary), is also estimated to be a magnitude 5.1 event, it’s reasonable to assume the newest test is also around 5 and a half kilotons. Which is day ruining if it shows up in a shipping container in Pusan, or Houston for that matter, but it is a lot smaller than needed to exterminate Seoul, or cause a meaningful EMP effect over Japan (which are my guesses for the likeliest targets if Not-So-Lil’ Kim decides to throw a temper tantrum with a nuclear weapon). So, yay? Aside, and I can’t remember which of the latest threads on nukes it was mentioned, piling onto **Minor7Flat5** ’s comment, I want to give a big recommendation to Eric Schlosser’s, _[Command and Control: Nuclear Weapons, the Damascus Accident, and the Illusion of Safety](http://www.amazon.com/Command-Control-Damascus-Accident-Illusion-ebook/dp/B00C5R7F8G)_. It’s a great read, and the bibliography is even better than the book. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-claims-it-has-detonated-a-hydrogen-bomb/742290.md?page=1)