# North Korea declares China an enemy, will this change anything **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 31, 2016, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-declares-china-an-enemy-will-this-change-anything/750790 "2016-03-31T23:41:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2016, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-declares-china-an-enemy-will-this-change-anything/750790/1 "2016-03-31T23:41:06Z")
There are several threads on NK already, but apparently the NK regime has now declared China an enemy and threatened them with nuclear war. > **[WWIII fears as Kim Jong-un threatens China with nuclear war](https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/wwiii-fears-kim-jong-un-7665166)** > > North Korea officials have condemned Beijing in a scathing document for taking part in recent UN sanctions against them > [@](#): > > Kim Jong-un has threatened China with ‘nuclear war’ after declaring the country an ‘enemy of North Korea .’ > > The portly despot reportedly launched a scathing attack on Beijing for taking part in UN sanctions against his regime. > > Officials circulated a document dated March 10 which slams China for “betraying socialism” and threatens to clamp down on them with the force of “a nuclear storm.” > > It states: “We must no longer go easy on the Chinese and instead deal with them equally in order to change their attitude of taking us lightly." Will this cause China to more seriously consider regime change in NK? I would hope China has the clout to organize a military coup in the NK regime, then lead the country along a reform path like China took starting in the 70s. A person can hope, but I would assume nothing comes of this. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2016, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-declares-china-an-enemy-will-this-change-anything/750790/2 "2016-03-31T23:46:10Z")
I think that tomorrow the doctors in Beijing will be seeing incredible numbers of sprained eyes. “I read Kim’s statement, and I just couldn’t stop them from rolling!” I think, as I mentioned in a [thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=783870) I started a month or two ago, that Kim is on borrowed time. ---
**Author:** ![Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slow_moving_vehicle/32/291_2.png) [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slow_Moving_Vehicle)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2016, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-declares-china-an-enemy-will-this-change-anything/750790/3 "2016-03-31T23:48:24Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > I think that tomorrow the doctors in Beijing will be seeing incredible numbers of sprained eyes. “I read Kim’s statement, and I just couldn’t stop them from rolling!” > > I think, as I mentioned in a [thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=783870) I started a month or two ago, that Kim is on borrowed time. Not to mention the tennis elbow from doing the “jerking off” gesture. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2016, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-declares-china-an-enemy-will-this-change-anything/750790/4 "2016-04-01T00:10:57Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > Kim is on borrowed time. He has to be a good bet for a 2017 deadpool. The question is will it be an external hit, internal hit, or a weight/gout precipitated coronary. ---
**Author:** ![usedtobe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ec9cab/32.png) [@usedtobe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/usedtobe)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2016, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-declares-china-an-enemy-will-this-change-anything/750790/5 "2016-04-01T00:26:04Z")
Here’s an ROK news site’s take on it: > **[Internal N.Korean Memo Slams Chinese 'Plot'](http://english.chosun.com/site/data/html_dir/2016/03/29/2016032901233.html)** > > An internal memo from the North Korean Workers Party calls on all party members .. Short form: “and, in other news, Sun still rises…” Notice the paper has a standing “interest area” link titled “North Korea”. You might want to bookmark the Chosen home site. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2016, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-declares-china-an-enemy-will-this-change-anything/750790/6 "2016-04-01T00:35:33Z")
> [@](#): > > Will this cause China to more seriously consider regime change in NK? No. They will take this as seriously as they took similar threats of the NKs nuking the US, South Korea, Japan, etc etc. About as seriously as they take the NKs claims about, well, anything really. But no, this won’t shift China at all…this was obviously aimed, as everything else, at an internal audience, not at China. > [@](#): > > I would hope China has the clout to organize a military coup in the NK regime, then lead the country along a reform path like China took starting in the 70s. Don’t hold your breath. Honestly, it’s not in China’s best interests, and probably not in anyone’s at this point. A military coup in NK would dangerously destabilize the entire country, and even if it didn’t push the region into war it probably would mean thousands, even 10’s or 100’s of thousands of panicked, starving and desperate NKs fleeing towards China’s borders. As for reform of NK, that also isn’t in China’s perceived best interest. NK is a captive market, so to speak, and can be counted on to demonstrate to the Chinese people how relatively benevolent and rational THEIR government is, not to mention support China and act as a buffer between China and South Korea and the US. > [@](#): > > A person can hope, but I would assume nothing comes of this. I wouldn’t hold your breath. Also, a regime collapse in North Korea wouldn’t be an unalloyed good thing. Regardless of how it goes down, when (not if) it does it’s going to be a humanitarian nightmare of biblical proportions. And that’s assuming there isn’t a war on the peninsula first or that nukes aren’t used. That’s just Lil’ Kimmy V3.2 getting whacked and the regime collapsing. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2016, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-declares-china-an-enemy-will-this-change-anything/750790/7 "2016-04-01T00:40:54Z")
I laugh when I read things like this. Mostly because of that picture of Kim standing on the conning tower of his rusty 50 year old Soviet submarine, proudly sailing along oblivious to how dated his military technology is. Apparently even his allies don’t trust him with the good stuff. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2016, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-declares-china-an-enemy-will-this-change-anything/750790/8 "2016-04-01T00:42:45Z")
I always felt it was only a matter of time before Pyongyang became uncomfortable with China’s control over it. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2016, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-declares-china-an-enemy-will-this-change-anything/750790/9 "2016-04-01T02:20:39Z")
I’m a little amazed at how fat his Young Specialness has become… maybe if he cut back on portions they could stave off famine a bit longer… ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2016, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-declares-china-an-enemy-will-this-change-anything/750790/10 "2016-04-01T02:34:02Z")
I’m going to be the voice of dissent and say this will change things. This split between China and North Korea has never happened before historically. No matter how much the west cracked down as long as China supplied them then the regime would not collapse. Now China has joined in on UN sanctions, and they might have been lax in enforcing them, but with idiot Kim now declaring them an enemy and threatening a “nuclear storm” I think they will tighten the screws on the sanctions even harder. China was already pissed at NK because last year idiot Kim executed all the pro China members of the NK elite (remember the uncle that was executed with an anti aircraft gun?). China does not react well to direct threats and they’re not going to just shrug this off as harmless bluster. They may not go as far as staging a coup in NK, but I can bet that internally the calculation has been made that the risk of a wave of refugees is less of a problem than an unstable next door neighbour with nuclear weapons. I give the current NK regime 2-3 years max. ---
**Author:** ![usedtobe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ec9cab/32.png) [@usedtobe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/usedtobe)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2016, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-declares-china-an-enemy-will-this-change-anything/750790/11 "2016-04-01T04:17:09Z")
Let me know when PRC announces military exercises across the river from DPRK. And casually mentions that they are decapitation maneuvers for use with uppity neighbors. Or even shuts off the oil pipeline which supplies most of the refined oil lil Kimmee uses. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2016, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-declares-china-an-enemy-will-this-change-anything/750790/12 "2016-04-01T04:34:46Z")
[Here’s an article](http://nypost.com/2016/03/31/kim-jong-un-weighs-nearly-300-pounds/) I happened upon earlier today that claims he’s now up to almost 300 lbs. ---
**Author:** ![DWMarch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dwmarch/32/1010_2.png) [@DWMarch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DWMarch)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2016, 7:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-declares-china-an-enemy-will-this-change-anything/750790/13 "2016-04-01T07:31:55Z")
Years ago, Larry Bond wrote a great novel called Red Phoenix in which North Korea gets the brilliant idea to roll into the South. Their attack goes well at first as the South trades space for time. Things seem tense and they are for a couple of weeks… until the reinforcements show up, promptly chop the tail off of the invading army and have all kinds of fun rampaging around in their rear. Just this month, Larry Bond published the sequel, called Red Phoenix Burning. It’s the story of North Korea much as it is today but with China having given up on helping North Korea because all of all the aid money being funneled into Kim Jong-Un’s military. Kim is killed by his own generals because North Korea is a big game of faction verses faction. The North collapses into chaos, South Korea invades (because of the WMD threat) and China also gets involved for the same reason. The US stays in South Korea to handle the refugees and to keep a big conflict with China from happening. Eventually, the US, China and one of the NK factions band together to fight Kim’s loyalists and capture the remaining WMDs. Now of course this is a fictional novel and events hinge on things like a certain spy being in a certain place at a certain time. However, I see the above scenario as much more likely than China and North Korea versus the US. Regardless of what happened in the 50s I don’t think China wants any part of a future conflict beyond ensuring the refugees aren’t too much of a burden. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2016, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-declares-china-an-enemy-will-this-change-anything/750790/14 "2016-04-01T14:38:17Z")
> [@coremelt](#): > > I’m going to be the voice of dissent and say this will change things. This split between China and North Korea has never happened before historically. No matter how much the west cracked down as long as China supplied them then the regime would not collapse. > > Now China has joined in on UN sanctions, and they might have been lax in enforcing them, but with idiot Kim now declaring them an enemy and threatening a “nuclear storm” I think they will tighten the screws on the sanctions even harder. China was already pissed at NK because last year idiot Kim executed all the pro China members of the NK elite (remember the uncle that was executed with an anti aircraft gun?). China does not react well to direct threats and they’re not going to just shrug this off as harmless bluster. > > They may not go as far as staging a coup in NK, but I can bet that internally the calculation has been made that the risk of a wave of refugees is less of a problem than an unstable next door neighbour with nuclear weapons. I give the current NK regime 2-3 years max. There is speculation that the spate of executions in North Korea of high ranking officials (including his Kim Jong Un’s uncle) has been a reaction to pressure to move North Korea to a more fascist, less communist government. Some members of the DPRK plutocracy sees the privatization of North Korea and the opening of its economy as potentially very rewarding, other plutocrats think it is heresy. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2016, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-declares-china-an-enemy-will-this-change-anything/750790/15 "2016-04-01T17:10:44Z")
Heh heh, “portly despot” 😃 ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2016, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-declares-china-an-enemy-will-this-change-anything/750790/16 "2016-04-01T17:18:38Z")
Does North Korea do this “April Fool” thing? ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2016, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-declares-china-an-enemy-will-this-change-anything/750790/17 "2016-04-01T17:49:22Z")
> [@coremelt](#): > > They may not go as far as staging a coup in NK, but I can bet that internally the calculation has been made that the risk of a wave of refugees is less of a problem than an unstable next door neighbour with nuclear weapons. I give the current NK regime 2-3 years max. The house of cards will fall when the Chinese and South Koreans decide that North Korea is going to collapse soon anyway no matter what and it’s better to just rip off the bandage at a time of their choosing rather than have it catch on something at random. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2016, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-declares-china-an-enemy-will-this-change-anything/750790/18 "2016-04-01T17:52:02Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > [Here’s an article](http://nypost.com/2016/03/31/kim-jong-un-weighs-nearly-300-pounds/) I happened upon earlier today that claims he’s now up to almost 300 lbs. Must be glandular. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2016, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-declares-china-an-enemy-will-this-change-anything/750790/19 "2016-04-01T18:13:46Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > [Here’s an article](http://nypost.com/2016/03/31/kim-jong-un-weighs-nearly-300-pounds/) I happened upon earlier today that claims he’s now up to almost 300 lbs. > [@](#): > > Pyongyang has ordered every citizen in the capital to provide around 2 pounds of rice to the state’s supplies every month . . . which Kim promptly snarfs down. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2016, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-declares-china-an-enemy-will-this-change-anything/750790/20 "2016-04-01T18:17:01Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > . . . which Kim promptly snarfs down. Whenever I see the term ‘snarf,’ I picture Garfield the cat. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-declares-china-an-enemy-will-this-change-anything/750790.md?page=2)