# North Korea: How does it play out if Li'L Kim starts a war? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 12, 2013, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-how-does-it-play-out-if-lil-kim-starts-a-war/676203 "2013-12-12T23:05:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2013, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-how-does-it-play-out-if-lil-kim-starts-a-war/676203/41 "2013-12-18T15:24:09Z")
> [@Polar\_Iceman](#): > > Funny thing that: every time we see another failed communist country, with all the waste, destruction and misery that entails, someone comes up with the “they aren’t really communists” crap. Your point being? If you just want to bash liberals, start a new thread. Except for the uninformed, it’s not controversial among liberals or conservatives that North Korea is not a communist nation, except in name. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2013, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-how-does-it-play-out-if-lil-kim-starts-a-war/676203/42 "2013-12-18T15:37:06Z")
> [@Malden\_Capell](#): > > I wonder what the reaction of the civilian population in DPRK would be to a military invasion by the US/SK. I am thinking in particular of Japanese civilians in WW2 and how many were told that GIs would rape and kill. It’s only because the Japanese Government formally surrendered that a wide-scale self-inflicted massacre of the Japanese people was averted. Would there be many DPRK civilians left _alive_? The really sad part is that that particular outcome would be the best for the rest of the world. NK has sunk so far into a hole of suckitude that erasing the whole place and starting over from scratch is the optimum way to go. Too bad that would mean serious genocide on somebody/somethings part. Maybe we can get a selective comet strike? ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2013, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-how-does-it-play-out-if-lil-kim-starts-a-war/676203/43 "2013-12-18T16:35:04Z")
nm dumb post ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2013, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-how-does-it-play-out-if-lil-kim-starts-a-war/676203/44 "2013-12-18T16:41:07Z")
If there was a devil on my shoulder whispering in my ear, he might say something like “It’s simple! Trade Taiwan for North Korea! Tell the Chinese that you won’t stop their invasion of Taiwan if they won’t stop you from taking out the Kim Dynasty!” As much as I hate to side with the devil, it might be a pragmatic way to prevent a nuclear holocaust. ---
**Author:** ![spifflog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@spifflog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spifflog)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2013, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-how-does-it-play-out-if-lil-kim-starts-a-war/676203/45 "2013-12-18T16:56:26Z")
I’m sure the 24 million Taiwanese that live in freedom today will be thrilled to hear you’re offering them up. You don’t mind if we throw Michigan in to sweeten the pot do you? ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2013, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-how-does-it-play-out-if-lil-kim-starts-a-war/676203/46 "2013-12-18T16:59:29Z")
> [@spifflog](#): > > I’m sure the 24 million Taiwanese that live in freedom today will be thrilled to hear you’re offering them up. That’s why it’s from Satan. But has gloom and doom come to Hong Kong? ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2013, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-how-does-it-play-out-if-lil-kim-starts-a-war/676203/47 "2013-12-18T17:13:05Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > That’s why it’s from Satan. But has gloom and doom come to Hong Kong? Hong Kong was never independant. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2013, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-how-does-it-play-out-if-lil-kim-starts-a-war/676203/48 "2013-12-18T17:14:03Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > That’s why it’s from Satan. But has gloom and doom come to Hong Kong? Hong Kong knew what was coming decades in advance. It wasn’t foisted on them in an attempt on a Faustian bargain. I don’t see what advantage this kind of deal has for anybody but China. Nobody actually wants North Korea. We want to see a stable, sane leadership and see to it that the people are fed. It helps the North Koreans, the South Koreans, the US, and ultimately China in the long run (with short term pain). Giving up Taiwan to mainland China has no corresponding benefits the other way. It’s an obvious detriment to the Taiwanese and serves no short or long term purpose for the US, South Korea or anybody else except China. It’s basically a bribe. If you’re going to bribe China, there are better ways than tossing millions of people under the bus. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2013, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-how-does-it-play-out-if-lil-kim-starts-a-war/676203/49 "2013-12-18T17:17:59Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Hong Kong was never independant. Of course not, but has going from a British colony to Chinese rule been catastrophic? I’m just saying that the only way to neutralize NK is to get the Chinese on board. Perhaps if the US took out Kim, the Chinese would secretly applaud. Perhaps only Satan would offer up Taiwan, but if they would rid us of the Kims it would prevent the deaths of perhaps millions of people. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2013, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-how-does-it-play-out-if-lil-kim-starts-a-war/676203/50 "2013-12-18T17:37:46Z")
That’s not even a Faustian bargain. That’s like handing over Park Place to keep someone from building a hotel on Baltic. In the unlikely event that NK comes up for grabs China will make noises about a sovereign claim but will quite happily let the West (SK and the US, most likely) deal with sorting out the destroyed economy and landscape and dysfunctional populace. Then, in about 50 years when things have settled down, they’ll remind everyone that they’d called dibs and will start a slow steady campaign to take it over, a la Taiwan. Actually, by Chinese standards that’d be a rapid response. Better make it 100 years. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2013, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-how-does-it-play-out-if-lil-kim-starts-a-war/676203/51 "2013-12-18T17:45:36Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > I’m not so sure that China and Vietnam count as failed states. Nor do I think that a state needs to be communist to fail- there are a few sub-Saharan African nations that I would count as failed. Indeed, China and Vietnam are both pretty vibrant. How many people are even aware that Vietnam has not one but two stock exchanges? ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2013, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-how-does-it-play-out-if-lil-kim-starts-a-war/676203/52 "2013-12-18T17:46:45Z")
> [@Ranger\_Jeff](#): > > I read somewhere last night that China is uncomfortable with the idea of sharing a boarder with SK, as if SK took over NK in a reunification. And I wonder what it would take to de/reprogram the NK population from their Kim family worship. Though, for that matter, one wonders how real that is. I hear this a lot but it never makes sense to me in the context of these giant countries that are not realistically going to be taken over in the near future. Why would China care if SK and the US is on its border? What can the US do next to that spy satellites, spies, electronic snooping, and other devices can’t do from half a world away? Its always puzzled me as to why China would support a failed state like NK just because it bugs SK and the US. The US is one of China’s biggest trading partners and I’ll bet SK isn’t too far behind consider how rich they are. This isn’t the age of empires anymore, nobody’s going to around toppling the US or China because a diplomatic marriage falls apart. If I controlled China, I’d work with the US to get rid of NK, fortify the borders, and turn NK into SK and trade with the new Korea that emerges. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2013, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-how-does-it-play-out-if-lil-kim-starts-a-war/676203/53 "2013-12-18T18:00:38Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > In the unlikely event that NK comes up for grabs China will make noises about a sovereign claim I really doubt it. They don’t have much of a claim. While the exact border may be up for dispute, Korea hasn’t historically been part of China, so it’s a hard claim to make. Other than buffering, I’m not sure why they’d even want it. As I noted above, physical imperialism is largely out for modern nations. Economic imperialism is where it’s at. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2013, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-how-does-it-play-out-if-lil-kim-starts-a-war/676203/54 "2013-12-18T18:08:28Z")
> [@Great\_Antibob](#): > > I really doubt it. They don’t have much of a claim. While the exact border may be up for dispute, Korea hasn’t historically been part of China, so it’s a hard claim to make. Other than buffering, I’m not sure why they’d even want it. As I noted above, physical imperialism is largely out for modern nations. Economic imperialism is where it’s at. They wouldn’t want it now. They might want it in a century, so they start laying the groundwork now. It doesn’t matter whether they have a realistic claim or not, as long as they keep their options open for the long term. That’s how China plays the game. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-how-does-it-play-out-if-lil-kim-starts-a-war/676203.md?page=2)