# North Korea...how will it end? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 29, 2011, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-how-will-it-end/587232 "2011-06-29T04:51:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2011, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-how-will-it-end/587232/41 "2011-06-29T20:51:20Z")
> [@dbx820](#): > > My solution would be a US capitation strike from the air of all government and military installations and officials in concert with a ground assault by Chinese forces to keep NK from invading South. NK doesn’t have to invade. I’m not sure many folks realize just how close Seoul is to the border, and just how much artillery is trained on the city. And that doesn’t even get to discussions of nuclear weapons. If we attached NK we’d see most if not all of Seoul reduced to smoking ruin very quickly. Perhaps radioactive smoking ruin. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2011, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-how-will-it-end/587232/42 "2011-06-29T20:53:58Z")
[QUOTE=Commissar] This is not meant to be a definitive prediction, but rather an extrapolation about a possible future. Keep in mind that both the Soviet Union and China were able to transform themselves from primitive agricultural boondocks into world-shaking superpowers in approximately two decades with little more than determination and socialism. Hence, this scenario is not out of the realms of probability. North Korea has all the tools it needs to succeed - now it just needs a better socialist government. [/QUOTE] They have all the tools they need to FEED THEMSELVES…yet they can’t do it and people are starving. Even the army seems to be going hungry these days, which really puts into perspective how truly fucked up they are. And you seriously posit that they could go from being one of the poorest and most backward countries on earth, a country that can’t even feed their own people to being one of the richest countries in the world in less than two decades?? And you are SERIOUS?? :smack: Even if they found unobtainium in massive quantities AND Ewa puts in an appearance to give them a hand with the food problem they aren’t going to go from being that poor to being one of the richest countries on earth in that time frame. Not even if Kimmy and his monsters gets tossed out tomorrow and South Korea takes pity on them and allows them to reunite tomorrow. -XT ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2011, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-how-will-it-end/587232/43 "2011-06-29T20:58:03Z")
[QUOTE=dbx820] My solution would be a US capitation strike from the air of all government and military installations and officials in concert with a ground assault by Chinese forces to keep NK from invading South. That would be the quickest way to eliminate the problem. But that won’t happen so. . . . [/QUOTE] A capitation strike? You mean we’d strike them to put a head on?? The quickest and least painful way to ‘fix’ this problem is to let the NK’s alone. They are teetering on the edge right now and it’s only a matter of time before they fall. What we and the SK’s and Japanese need to be doing is preparing for when they do fall, because it’s going to be ugly. > [@](#): > > China is the only country that could do anything to improve the situation and they do not want a western country on their border so damn the citizens and let tyrany ring. I don’t know how much China could realistically do at this point. Feed them and keep them going for a while longer, I suppose, but that’s about it. The NK’s aren’t a Chinese puppet that does whatever China says…far from it. -XT ---
**Author:** ![Commissar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c68b51/32.png) [@Commissar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Commissar)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2011, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-how-will-it-end/587232/44 "2011-06-29T21:28:25Z")
> [@straight\_man](#): > > ETA: 2030? The only way North Korea’s wealthier than South Korea by 2030 is if South Korea’s been nuked into rubble. And even then, the difference wouldn’t be massive. North Korea really doesn’t have any of the things China and Russia did — notably, a large population. According to Wikipedia, the North has a population of almost 25,000,000. I’m not sure why you think that is insufficient for rapid economic growth. It’s not exactly the size of Vatican City; they have more than enough workers to become an industrial powerhouse. > [@xtisme](#): > > They have all the tools they need to FEED THEMSELVES…yet they can’t do it and people are starving. Even the army seems to be going hungry these days, which really puts into perspective how truly fucked up they are. And you seriously posit that they could go from being one of the poorest and most backward countries on earth, a country that can’t even feed their own people to being one of the richest countries in the world in less than two decades?? And you are SERIOUS?? :smack: See, your disbelief would be more compelling had mankind not already proven that this is quite possible under a proper socialist system. Take my own nation, the USSR. Our glorious revolutionaries inherited a backward, underdeveloped, feudal swamp that had been decimated by centuries of corrupt czarist rule. Then things got even worse, as the resulting civil war destroyed pretty much everything that had managed to outlast the monarchy. Yes, we were poor, we were hungry, and we were uneducated. All we had was the power of socialism; that was enough. Two decades later, we single-handedly saved the world from the most powerful and sadistic military force that it had ever known. In twenty years, we went from rural hicks to global saviors. Not bad, eh? I see no reason to believe that the North Koreans are somehow incapable of replicating our achievements. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2011, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-how-will-it-end/587232/45 "2011-06-29T21:44:37Z")
[QUOTE=Commissar] See, your disbelief would be more compelling had mankind not already proven that this is quite possible under a proper socialist system. Take my own nation, the USSR. Our glorious revolutionaries inherited a backward, underdeveloped, feudal swamp that had been decimated by centuries of corrupt czarist rule. Then things got even worse, as the resulting civil war destroyed pretty much everything that had managed to outlast the monarchy. Yes, we were poor, we were hungry, and we were uneducated. All we had was the power of socialism; that was enough. Two decades later, we single-handedly saved the world from the most powerful and sadistic military force that it had ever known. In twenty years, we went from rural hicks to global saviors. Not bad, eh? [/QUOTE] To paraphrase Doctor Evil, I haven’t laughed this hard since I was a little girl…oh, wait. You were serious?? :eek: Your rose colored selective understanding of history aside, have you noticed how well the Soviet Union is doing these day? No? Possibly because THERE IS NO USSR ANYMORE?? 😛 > [@](#): > > I see no reason to believe that the North Koreans are somehow incapable of replicating our achievements. Well, Kimmy and his merry men have a lot fewer potential people they can kill, to be sure…though they have given it the old college try in brutality, repression, labor camps and starving their own people to death. Still, folks like Stalin or Mao are hard acts to follow, and Kimmy et al have a lot less to work with. Checking the date stamp on North Korea I think it will be a stretch if they can last as long as the USSR did before it finally went completely tits up and was tossed on the ash heap of history (_snerk_), but perhaps they can eek things out for another few decades to replicate the fine longevity achievements of the great Soviet Empire. :dubious: -XT ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Love](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e8c25b/32.png) [@Dr.Love](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Love)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2011, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-how-will-it-end/587232/46 "2011-06-29T21:51:53Z")
Guys, you’re being too hard on Commissar. Let’s look at the numbers. From 1972 to 2010, China’s GDP per capita grew at an [average rate of 9.3%](http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=%28china+gdp+per+capita+2010+%2F+china+gdp+per+capita+1972%29%5E%281%2F%282010-1972%29%29-1). In order for the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea (aka [Best Korea](http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3634/3565759415_f5b0beed7e.jpg)) to be as rich as the United States by 2030, they have to grow at [a mere 26.2% per year](http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=%28gdp+per+capita+USA+%2F+gdp+per+capita+North+Korea%29%5E%281%2F%282030-2011%29%29+-+1). Now, given that Communism is the bestest, most super awesome economic system in the whole wide world, they should have no trouble growing almost three times as fast as China has. If, of course, they can find a wise, courageous leader and protector of the people. Like Stalin. ---
**Author:** ![straight\_man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/straight_man/32/3027_2.png) [@straight\_man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/straight_man)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2011, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-how-will-it-end/587232/47 "2011-06-29T21:58:26Z")
Aww, I was just writing the same sort of calculations. Ignoring population growth, and supposing the South Korean economy instantly stagnated, North Korea would need a growth rate of 16%/yr to catch up. If South Korea kept its current growth rate (which, being entirely fair, it won’t), the necessary growth rate would go up to 16%/yr. For reference: North Korea’s GDPPC(PPP) of $1800, with a real growth rate of -.9%. South Korea has a GDP of GDPPC(PPP) of $30,000, with a real growth rate of 6.1%. So obviously, none of the above stuff is going to happen. A sidenote I wrote to **Commissar** : What he missed is that neither the Soviet Union/Russia nor China has managed to become especially wealthy. But the USSR and China didn’t/don’t need very much wealth to be superpowers, because they’re big. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2011, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-how-will-it-end/587232/48 "2011-06-29T22:09:01Z")
> [@Commissar](#): > > According to Wikipedia, the North has a population of almost 25,000,000. I’m not sure why you think that is insufficient for rapid economic growth. It’s not exactly the size of Vatican City; they have more than enough workers to become an industrial powerhouse. As a start, they’re shutting down the universities for ten months, so the students can go work in factories. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2011, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-how-will-it-end/587232/49 "2011-06-29T22:36:47Z")
> [@hansel](#): > > From what little I’ve heard, Kim Jong Il is having difficulty getting the generals to accept Kim Jong Un as his successor. I’d give odds on some generals shooting both Kims and then approaching the South to get the aid flowing again. Likely result: something like Burma. > [@DWMarch](#): > > If North Korea is smart, some Gorbachev-like general will overthrow Jong-Il and Jong Un, trash the personality cult and dismantle the nuclear (biological, chemical etc) program in exchange for aid. Open the borders, get some trade flowing (NK can offer cheap labor if nothing else), let the world in and hope their neighbors are in a forgiving mood. I expect a lot of apologies along the lines of “We knew they were crazy but they had guns to our heads so what were we supposed to do?” > > If they aren’t so smart they will lash out at South Korea. A conventional war is one they are sure to lose but in the few weeks that they survive they will do all kinds of damage and will probably kill tens if not hundreds of thousands of civilians. At which point the US and South Korea will bomb the place flat and occupy the piles of rubble for the next 50-100 years. However, aside from dedicated commando units (and perhaps not even them) I don’t expect much NK resistance after the fact. Food, water and some basic human dignity will overcome anyone’s will to fight for a country that won’t exist after a war. How about…both. The whole damn country is brainwashed by indoctrination from the cradle on. The General Officers _do not_ have to know or believe in the genuine state of affairs. They are chosed by loyalty, obedience & ideological purity. So, if Kim II or Kim III refuse to attack the “rebel South” & the "“Yankee Imperialists”, a general may launch a coup, & then attack south, trusting in “the inevitable victory of World Socialism & the purest people”. ---
**Author:** ![Commissar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c68b51/32.png) [@Commissar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Commissar)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2011, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-how-will-it-end/587232/50 "2011-06-29T23:21:37Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > Your rose colored selective understanding of history aside, have you noticed how well the Soviet Union is doing these day? No? Possibly because THERE IS NO USSR ANYMORE?? 😛 Why didn’t I think of that?!? Clearly, the current non-existence of a past practitioner conclusively disproves the ideology. Brilliant! Let’s see if we can apply your logic further… Hmmm, let’s see… What doesn’t exist any more? I know! The British Empire! And, since the now non-existent British Empire was decidedly capitalist, that means that we have just disproven capitalism in thirty seconds! Yay, logic! :rolleyes: > [@Dr.Love](#): > > Guys, you’re being too hard on Commissar. Let’s look at the numbers. From 1972 to 2010, China’s GDP per capita grew at an [average rate of 9.3%](http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=%28china+gdp+per+capita+2010+%2F+china+gdp+per+capita+1972%29%5E%281%2F%282010-1972%29%29-1). In order for the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea (aka [Best Korea](http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3634/3565759415_f5b0beed7e.jpg)) to be as rich as the United States by 2030, they have to grow at [a mere 26.2% per year](http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=%28gdp+per+capita+USA+%2F+gdp+per+capita+North+Korea%29%5E%281%2F%282030-2011%29%29+-+1). Now, given that Communism is the bestest, most super awesome economic system in the whole wide world, they should have no trouble growing almost three times as fast as China has. If, of course, they can find a wise, courageous leader and protector of the people. Like Stalin. Nice work, but it misses the forest for the trees. First of all, there is no need for North Korea to surpass the Empire in order to qualify as a rich country. That’s a false threshold. More importantly, I object to the Western capitalist notion of comparing nations on the basis of GDP (both gross and per-capita). That is a meaningless and self-serving criteria that artificially inflates the apparent worth of capitalist nations. Something like the US, which sacrifices the working poor to the false gods of efficiency and productivity, will tend to hide widespread suffering behind the veil of GDP coefficients. Screw that. I would prefer that we focus on real factors that make an actual difference as far as normal people are concerned. Education, access to medical care, proper housing, that type of thing. Think about it this way… In a potential reunification, would you rather have a high-GDP partner on the verge of total social collapse or a low-GDP yet highly stable, fully employed, very well-educated one? ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2011, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-how-will-it-end/587232/51 "2011-06-29T23:38:23Z")
[QUOTE=Commissar] Why didn’t I think of that?!? Clearly, the current non-existence of a past practitioner conclusively disproves the ideology. Brilliant! [/QUOTE] Well, one must of course consider the manner of said demise. How exactly did the Soviet Union fall apart? Were they attacked and conquered by an outside foe? No? Or did they fall apart like a rotten melon? While the fall of the most powerful and influential member of a certain ideology doesn’t disprove an ideology, I’d have to say that subsequent events have strongly indicated that communism was a dead end. And, since you were talking about the Soviet Union in the post I responded too, you attempting to divert the conversation to a more general topic is fairly obvious…you are trying to wave your hands and muddy the waters. The Soviet Union didn’t rise in 20 years, and they completely fell apart, so attempting to use them as some ideal is pretty silly…which is the point of you trying to deflect the debate, of course. > [@](#): > > Let’s see if we can apply your logic further… Hmmm, let’s see… What doesn’t exist any more? I know! The British Empire! And, since the now non-existent British Empire was decidedly capitalist, that means that we have just disproven capitalism in thirty seconds! Yay, logic! The British Empire fell apart (after a fairly long run), but capitalism continued on and got stronger, not weaker when it fell. So, your analogy sort of fails epically…but then, the real point of it was your attempt to deflect the conversation away from what you said and what I was responding too. Sadly, your counter argument is rather silly in light of history. Even your vaunted Chinese have only been as successful as they have been and only been able to make things work by incorporating capitalism into their system. 😛 -XT ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2011, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-how-will-it-end/587232/52 "2011-06-30T00:00:56Z")
I’m kind of curious by what criterion, if any, North Korea could beat out the U.S. And a _positive_ criterion, not “starvation per capita” or some such. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2011, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-how-will-it-end/587232/53 "2011-06-30T00:39:46Z")
> [@Oldeb](#): > > Actually, China absorbing North Korea is probably the best possible outcome for the US and South Korea. It would be terrible for China though, so they will never do it. Obviously for North Korea just about any change would be a plus. > > Korean reunification would most likely collapse South Korea. Germany has spent over $1.9 trillion USD on rebuilding the East. South Korea’s GDP is only $1.4 trillion USD. And East Germany wasn’t that far behind, especially when compared to the huge differences in quality of life between North and South Korea. > > Possible, but I think that would lead to far more problems than it would solve. I don’t think you could do it without creating a semi-permanent underclass of North Koreans. > [@straight\_man](#): > > To **Qin** : as people have been saying throughout this thread, reunification just isn’t going to happen — at least, not in this century. German reunification was difficult and expensive, and the two Germanies were substantially wealthier than their respective Korean counterparts. It’s hard to see how two countries can be united when one has a virtually uneducated population of peasant serfs and the other has educated, industrialized workers. The only way I can think of making it happen is for the South to basically run North Korea as a colony for a generation or two. In 1960 before the economic miracles under Park Chung Hee South Korea was more rural and poorerer than the North. Yet under brilliant economic policies, we have boomed. By applying the same principles the North (assuming a collapse date of say 2020) can be reintegrated into the Korean people by the end of the century. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2011, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-how-will-it-end/587232/54 "2011-06-30T01:26:11Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > By applying the same principles the North (assuming a collapse date of say 2020) can be reintegrated into the Korean people by the end of the century. As long as you are paying for it and I’m not, more power to you, dude. ---
**Author:** ![straight\_man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/straight_man/32/3027_2.png) [@straight\_man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/straight_man)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2011, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-how-will-it-end/587232/55 "2011-06-30T01:35:52Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > I’m kind of curious by what criterion, if any, North Korea could beat out the U.S. > > And a _positive_ criterion, not “starvation per capita” or some such. The CIA World Factbook and Wikipedia don’t have this statistic (in all probability, nobody knows), but North Korea probably has a lower gini coefficient than the US. Most communist countries do —largely because the government owns everything, but c’est la vie. Of course, that statistic isn’t especially meaningful, when you take into account that a lower class American would be extremely wealthy by North Korean standards, but it’s a legitimate criterion. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2011, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-how-will-it-end/587232/56 "2011-06-30T01:40:35Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > Yep. NK just threatened military action in response to a recent SK leaflet drop IIRC, and again IIRC, NK citizens who actually touch the leaflets are imprisoned along with their extended families. Hmm. Maybe they should try some kind of Zen/Dada/surrealist approach, like leaflets that say “This is not a propaganda leaflet,” and nothing else. Or, “Good for 20% off at Lee’s Barbecue.” Or, “The invasion has been postponed indefinitely. We apologize for the inconvenience.” Or, “Please disregard previous message; there has been no coup d’etat in the PDRK.” (Dropped after no such previous message, of course.) There is more than one way to chip away at the people’s morale. One way is to confuse them. (See the Discordian concept of [Operation Mindfuck.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Mindfuck)) ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2011, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-how-will-it-end/587232/57 "2011-06-30T01:47:44Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > Well, one must of course consider the manner of said demise. How exactly did the Soviet Union fall apart? Were they attacked and conquered by an outside foe? No? Or did they fall apart like a rotten melon? Bit of both, actually. The costs of the Cold War bankrupted them and the people could take only so much of guns-over-butter. That’s not conquest, but neither is it something that can happen without a powerful foreign enemy. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2011, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-how-will-it-end/587232/58 "2011-06-30T01:48:15Z")
Or messages with numbers on them. “1. South Korea welcomes your friendship”, “2. Military action will be counter-productive”, and “4. Prosperity awaits anyone who follows message 3.” Message 3, of course, does not exist. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2011, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-how-will-it-end/587232/59 "2011-06-30T01:51:13Z")
> [@Commissar](#): > > Think about it this way… In a potential reunification, would you rather have a high-GDP partner on the verge of total social collapse or a low-GDP yet highly stable, fully employed, very well-educated one? I’m certainly for dropping all U.S. embargoes on Cuba for similar reasons (“reunification” being only with the wider modern world, of course). But, Cuba’s no **threat** to anybody. The South Koreans always have to worry Kim will go crazy enough to commit suicide-by-army. I can understand their wanting to keep NK weak. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2011, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-how-will-it-end/587232/60 "2011-06-30T01:57:07Z")
> [@straight\_man](#): > > The CIA World Factbook and Wikipedia don’t have this statistic (in all probability, nobody knows), but North Korea probably has a lower gini coefficient than the US. Most communist countries do —largely because the government owns everything, but c’est la vie. Of course, that statistic isn’t especially meaningful, when you take into account that a lower class American would be extremely wealthy by North Korean standards, but it’s a legitimate criterion. Even with that level of equality, however, I wonder if there has not by now emerged some visible physical difference between the elite who get enough to eat and the malnourished majority. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-how-will-it-end/587232.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-how-will-it-end/587232.md?page=4)