# North Korea Hypothetical **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 6, 2016, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-hypothetical/761938 "2016-08-06T13:03:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2016, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-hypothetical/761938/21 "2016-08-06T22:48:31Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > It’s pretty easy to complain that other people aren’t making the necessary sacrifices that you want. And no, we aren’t paying the South Koreans to maintain the stalemate, where you do you get this idea? Yeah, there are American troops in SK. A few of them. The vast majority of South Korea’s defensive forces are made up of South Korean troops. South Korea has a massive and modern military that can easily defend the country against any invasion from the North. What they can’t do, and what no country could do, is set up a defense that would prevent thousands of dug-in artillery tubes from firing a couple dozen times at a city-sized target and causing incredible damage. > > If you want to complain that the South Koreans should have moved their capitol to a more defensible position 50 years ago and never developed Seoul into an indefensible 20 million person megalopolis, well, maybe they shouldn’t have. Given where we are now, though, complaining that they don’t have the guts to launch a war to invade North Korea is a little silly. We have paid in many ways on top of the money we’ve spent directly on defense. And I’m not complaining about the South Koreans not sacrificing, I’m complaining about us. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2016, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-hypothetical/761938/22 "2016-08-06T22:55:44Z")
The question is “Why should we care?” It’s only the fact that the norks are a nuclear power and are led by someone who is batshit crazy that _anybody_ cares. Yes, it sucks to live there. But there is fuck-all _anyone_ can do about it. Horrible to contemplate, but the best thing for the country would probably be a very contagious, very deadly plague that takes out about 75% of the population, including all the government. Although thinking about it, that wouldn’t do much good either. There is no way to get aid to the people, even if we could. The DMZ will take decades to clear, and more than likely never will be. There is _one_ rail line from China. NK ports are among the worst in the world, so shipping aid in is a non-starter as well. Face it, the country and its people are a write-off and always will be. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2016, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-hypothetical/761938/23 "2016-08-06T23:35:00Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > The question is “Why should we care?” It’s only the fact that the norks are a nuclear power and are led by someone who is batshit crazy that _anybody_ cares. Yes, it sucks to live there. But there is fuck-all _anyone_ can do about it. Horrible to contemplate, but the best thing for the country would probably be a very contagious, very deadly plague that takes out about 75% of the population, including all the government. Although thinking about it, that wouldn’t do much good either. There is no way to get aid to the people, even if we could. The DMZ will take decades to clear, and more than likely never will be. There is _one_ rail line from China. NK ports are among the worst in the world, so shipping aid in is a non-starter as well. Face it, the country and its people are a write-off and always will be. Gosh. You sound like a real nice person. And your continued posts have nothing at all to do with my opening post. NK is not a write off as much as you wish. It is surrounded by three of the worlds economic powerhouses. And they want NK to become a viable country. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2016, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-hypothetical/761938/24 "2016-08-07T00:10:05Z")
> [@enipla](#): > > NK is not a write off as much as you wish. It is surrounded by three of the worlds economic powerhouses. And they want NK to become a viable country. Nobody–even its ostensible patron, the Peoples Republic of China–and certainly not Japan or South Korea, wants North Korea to be a viable country. Everybody would like North Korea to kind of go away, which is really the entire point of North Korea’s “nuclear program”; it is just dangerous enough that we can’t actually ignore it, although the magnitude of potential threat it represents is limited in scope. An incident, such as described in the o.p. would likely be handled through diplomatic channels with China, with some degree of notional reparations followed by either ineffectual sanctions or agreements for aid in exchange for suspending their ballistic missile program, which they would nominally adhere to for long enough to use the aid and then return to their previous noisemaking. The North Korean leadership has learned that such bait-and-switch is an effective tactic because nobody wants to start that kind of tousle. However, a more significant “mistake” that did major damage or killed a sufficient number of people that it could not easily be hushed with some payments to family would likely result in more severe diplomatic and military responses, whether sanctioned by the PRC or not, and raising tensions between China and the US and its allies. The potential for a Pacific conflict between nations is an uncomfortable thought. We would like to think that the USN would handily defeat the Peoples Liberation Army Navy, which despite efforts at development and downsizing of the USN is still technically and numerically inferior to the USN Seventh Fleet (which could be augmented with Third Fleet and potentially Japanese Maritime Self-Defense Force and ROK Navy) but still has the capability to deny unrestrained operational access in the Sea of Japan, Yellow Sea, and East China Sea, especially given the purported capabilities of the Type 39A attack submarine. I don’t know that we should say that the innocent people living under the North Korean regime are “a write-off and always will be,” but even if Gregory Peck, David Niven, and Anthony Quinn snuck their way into Pyongyang and killed off the entire leadership in one fell blow, reintegrating the Korean Peninsula is an unenviable task to contemplate. Those who experienced the reunification of East German with West Germany can attest to this, and that was a relatively seamless and almost conflict-free process with an East Bloc client state that was, while impoverished by Western standards, at least had a more or less working infrastructure and bureaucratic apparatus with a population that was essentially well-educated in everything but economics and political theory, with a population largely eager to join the workforce and start reaping the baubles of capitalism. North Korea, on the other hand, has been so diminished and dismantled (and was never wealthy even by relative standards) that it would be a substantial burden upon South Korea for the indefinite future. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2016, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-hypothetical/761938/25 "2016-08-07T00:24:35Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > We have paid in many ways on top of the money we’ve spent directly on defense. And I’m not complaining about the South Koreans not sacrificing, I’m complaining about us. Wait, so which is it? Should we pay more and sacrifice more to help the Koreans, or should we never have paid anything and sacrificed anything for the Koreans? If you think we need to sacrifice more, what exactly are you talking about? We can’t invade and occupy North Korea without triggering a humanitarian disaster. Any military action short of occupation is insanity. And so the only reasonable course of action is to fortify the border and hope the pig learns to sing. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2016, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-hypothetical/761938/26 "2016-08-07T13:37:23Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > Nobody–even its ostensible patron, the Peoples Republic of China–and certainly not Japan or South Korea, wants North Korea to be a viable country. Everybody would like North Korea to kind of go away, > \Stranger Why wouldn’t the PRC, SK or Japan want NK to be a viable country? By that I mean a country that can be negotiated with and reasoned with. NOT the current regime. NK has a lot of untapped mineral resources, plenty of labor, and would be in need of the equipment that the PRC, SC, and Japan produces and exports. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2016, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-hypothetical/761938/27 "2016-08-07T13:46:37Z")
Because, as previously stated, even if the current regime were eliminated, the nation has severe problems with its basic infrastructure and logistics, not to mention a population that is ill-prepared to rise into industrialization, and negligible financial resources, leaving them with only the military strength and nuclear program (as fraudulent as it may be) as bargaining chips. A new leadership that wasn’t composed of rejects from a remake of _Duck Soup_ might actually represent a genuine threat to South Korea and Japan, and an even larger difficulty for the PRC to deal with. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2016, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-hypothetical/761938/28 "2016-08-07T14:44:36Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > Wait, so which is it? Should we pay more and sacrifice more to help the Koreans, or should we never have paid anything and sacrificed anything for the Koreans? > > If you think we need to sacrifice more, what exactly are you talking about? We can’t invade and occupy North Korea without triggering a humanitarian disaster. Any military action short of occupation is insanity. And so the only reasonable course of action is to fortify the border and hope the pig learns to sing. Your characterizations of my words are solely your own. We have wasted the money and sacrifices we made because they only led to more death and suffering. We have not been prepared to sacrifice economically, to formulate a strategy to face the eventual death and destruction ahead, and we are afraid to enter the fray largely due to our failures in Korea and Vietnam, and now our ill-advised and poorly executed forays into the middle east. We may either sit by and wash our hands of the matter while North Koreans continue to die and threaten to kill so many others or be prepared to act even if it will result in the loss of money and lives. We allege to care about human rights around the world, but only so long as it costs us nothing, or at least doesn’t profit a select few. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2016, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-hypothetical/761938/29 "2016-08-07T14:52:12Z")
The response will be nothing. North Korea has kidnapped endless dozens (probably hundreds) of people from Japan and South Korea. They have also fired on military installations. They have also sent commandos into South Korea to commit assassinations. The response from South Korea & Japan is diplomatic protest. North Korea knows there is a line they can approach but not cross. Firing a missile that hits a field or kills a family is not beyond that line. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2016, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-hypothetical/761938/30 "2016-08-07T14:58:35Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > Because, as previously stated, even if the current regime were eliminated, the nation has severe problems with its basic infrastructure and logistics, not to mention a population that is ill-prepared to rise into industrialization, and negligible financial resources, leaving them with only the military strength and nuclear program (as fraudulent as it may be) as bargaining chips. A new leadership that wasn’t composed of rejects from a remake of _Duck Soup_ might actually represent a genuine threat to South Korea and Japan, and an even larger difficulty for the PRC to deal with. > > Stranger So just let them implode? And then what? Why would a viable friendly nation on Chinas border cause them concern? As it stands, China is worried about millions of refugees that they would have to deal with if things completely go to shit. So is SK. You say that they are “ill-prepared to rise into industrialization” I disagree. They need equipment that with their recourses could be traded for. My idea of putting forth some might to perhaps make them reconsider using Japan as target practice MIGHT make Jong Un consider his options. Did I speak about eliminating the current regime? Or reunification? No. The current policy of more and more sanctions doesn’t work. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2016, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-hypothetical/761938/31 "2016-08-07T15:05:06Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > …North Korea knows there is a line they can approach but not cross. Firing a missile that hits a field or kills a family is not beyond that line. From my OP > [@enipla](#): > > What should the response be? Not what it will be. ---
**Author:** ![drewder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/57b2e6/32.png) [@drewder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewder)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2016, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-hypothetical/761938/32 "2016-08-08T23:00:05Z")
The response should be an immediate invasion of North Korea by a coalition of South Korea, Japan, the USA and China. The Il family should be put on trail for their crimes and executed. The Korean peninsula should then be united under a democratic government. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2016, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-hypothetical/761938/33 "2016-08-09T00:21:17Z")
> [@enipla](#): > > China won’t because NK is their ally. NK is Chinas rabid dog under their porch, and needs to be involved. This is why I suggested that NK is welcome to test their missiles to the west. China. I’m sure China would not agree. Remember, China can’t stand NK in many ways. Wikileaks even revealed private communications between Chinese leaders and other foreign leaders acknowledging that they would be able to live with a united Korea…headed in Seoul by the S. Korean government. China will not support N. Korea if they lose their minds and attack someone with a missile. ---
**Author:** ![sweat209](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc348/32.png) [@sweat209](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sweat209)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2016, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-hypothetical/761938/34 "2016-08-09T01:09:20Z")
> [@enipla](#): > > Japan does not have the ability to counter-attack with out SK and US help. > > China won’t because NK is their ally. NK is Chinas rabid dog under their porch, and needs to be involved. This is why I suggested that NK is welcome to test their missiles to the west. China. I’m sure China would not agree. China is getting really frustrated with North Korea as of late. And the more North Korea tries to start a war and continue crazy things than China will move away from support of North Korea. China does mot want a war with North Korea and the US. And North Korea is behaving really strange and trying to start a war. By take is if North Korea tries bombing Islands and other countries that China would start a blockade of North Korea than supporting the US and other countries going to war with North Korea. But the US and Europe would want to go to war if North Korea tries bombing Islands and other countries. If any missile it the US even if no one died the US would be at war with North Korea faster than CNN can report the US military is on the way there. The US would not allow any missile to hit US land. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2016, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-hypothetical/761938/35 "2016-08-09T01:32:57Z")
> [@drewder](#): > > The response should be an immediate invasion of North Korea by a coalition of South Korea, Japan, the USA and China. The Il family should be put on trail for their crimes and executed. The Korean peninsula should then be united under a democratic government. …over just one North Korean missile landing in Japan? ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2016, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-hypothetical/761938/36 "2016-08-09T03:11:03Z")
> [@enipla](#): > > So just let them implode? And then what? Why would a viable friendly nation on Chinas border cause them concern? As it stands, China is worried about millions of refugees that they would have to deal with if things completely go to shit. So is SK. > > You say that they are “ill-prepared to rise into industrialization” I disagree. They need equipment that with their recourses could be traded for. First of all, the Peoples Republic of China doesn’t want any competitors, period. They don’t want a “viable friendly nation” on their border; they want a client state. North Korea hasn’t been a particularly good client state but the last thing the PRC wants is an up and coming industrial nation doing to them what they’ve spent the last twenty years doing to South Korea, and what South Korea did to Japan. Second, equipment isn’t going to bring a Jong-un-less Korea into industrialization any more than that approach has worked in post-colonial Africa. North Korea would need more than just equipment to be able to be a productive industrial nation; it needs an energy production, electrical distribution, transportation, and manufacturing infrastructure as well as a technical education of the population. > [@drewder](#): > > The response should be an immediate invasion of North Korea by a coalition of South Korea, Japan, the USA and China. The Il family should be put on trail for their crimes and executed. The Korean peninsula should then be united under a democratic government. You realize that this is essentially the exact same game plan for invading Iraq, combined with the division of control of post-WWII Europe, just with different geography and players. And that worked out so very well. Just the notion of “a coalition of South Korea, Japan, the USA and China” is risible by itself, much less that Korea would be somehow “united under a democratic government”, especially given that even South Korea by itself has only had a more-or-less genuinely democratic government since 1987. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![drewder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/57b2e6/32.png) [@drewder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewder)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2016, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-hypothetical/761938/37 "2016-08-09T05:21:01Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > …over just one North Korean missile landing in Japan? Honestly the North Korean government has a lot to answer for. They shouldn’t be allowed to continue to destroy the futures of their people and threaten the peace in the region for over 60 years with their constant saber rattling. So it is what SHOULD happen as the OP wanted rather than what would really happen. ---
**Author:** ![drewder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/57b2e6/32.png) [@drewder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewder)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2016, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-hypothetical/761938/38 "2016-08-09T05:28:23Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > First of all, the Peoples Republic of China doesn’t want any competitors, period. They don’t want a “viable friendly nation” on their border; they want a client state. North Korea hasn’t been a particularly good client state but the last thing the PRC wants is an up and coming industrial nation doing to them what they’ve spent the last twenty years doing to South Korea, and what South Korea did to Japan. > > Second, equipment isn’t going to bring a Jong-un-less Korea into industrialization any more than that approach has worked in post-colonial Africa. North Korea would need more than just equipment to be able to be a productive industrial nation; it needs an energy production, electrical distribution, transportation, and manufacturing infrastructure as well as a technical education of the population. > > You realize that this is essentially the exact same game plan for invading Iraq, combined with the division of control of post-WWII Europe, just with different geography and players. And that worked out so very well. Just the notion of “a coalition of South Korea, Japan, the USA and China” is risible by itself, much less that Korea would be somehow “united under a democratic government”, especially given that even South Korea by itself has only had a more-or-less genuinely democratic government since 1987. > > Stranger It’s also the same game plan for the invasion of German occupied France and Vichy France in WWII and we see how well that worked. ---
**Author:** ![Mangosteen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Mangosteen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangosteen)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2016, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-hypothetical/761938/39 "2016-08-10T00:17:38Z")
> [@sweat209](#): > > China is getting really frustrated with North Korea as of late. And the more North Korea tries to start a war and continue crazy things than China will move away from support of North Korea. > > China does mot want a war with North Korea and the US. And North Korea is behaving really strange and trying to start a war. > > By take is if North Korea tries bombing Islands and other countries that China would start a blockade of North Korea than supporting the US and other countries going to war with North Korea. But the US and Europe would want to go to war if North Korea tries bombing Islands and other countries. > > If any missile it the US even if no one died the US would be at war with North Korea faster than CNN can report the US military is on the way there. The US would not allow any missile to hit US land. What about a US ship? ---
**Author:** ![sweat209](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc348/32.png) [@sweat209](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sweat209)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2016, 10:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-hypothetical/761938/40 "2016-08-10T10:30:42Z")
> [@drewder](#): > > Honestly the North Korean government has a lot to answer for. They shouldn’t be allowed to continue to destroy the futures of their people and threaten the peace in the region for over 60 years with their constant saber rattling. So it is what SHOULD happen as the OP wanted rather than what would really happen. Than get rid of the UN. There are many countries in Africa and Asia that would be human rights violations. Well unfortunately human rights violations and lots of killings and suffering just does not justified genocide for UN to even talk about. Most of Middle East in the state of war not to say killings, suffering, food and water shortage in many of the African countries. If you can prove North Korea trying to kill it people and wipe them out to call it genocide than the only thing the UN will support is stronger embargo:eek::eek::eek: But that do nothing if countries sneak in and they look the other way. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-hypothetical/761938.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-hypothetical/761938.md?page=3)