# North Korea kills US citizens! \[Not really. This is a (sort of) parody thread.\] **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 1, 2010, 8:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-kills-us-citizens-not-really-this-is-a-sort-of-parody-thread/541473 "2010-06-01T08:09:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2010, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-kills-us-citizens-not-really-this-is-a-sort-of-parody-thread/541473/21 "2010-06-01T13:22:03Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > “American Missionaries Kidnapped, Killed In Yemen!” > > State Department: “Well, we DID issue a formal travel warning against Americans going there!” What, you didn’t hear about the thousands of rioters assaulting the Yemenese embassy? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2010, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-kills-us-citizens-not-really-this-is-a-sort-of-parody-thread/541473/22 "2010-06-01T13:43:35Z")
The thread title was a dead give away. The OP’s bad analogy has already been addressed in the GD thread. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2010, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-kills-us-citizens-not-really-this-is-a-sort-of-parody-thread/541473/23 "2010-06-01T13:45:29Z")
> [@jjimm](#): > > I believe the point being made is that if it were a pariah country, rather than an allied one, we may have a different attitude. Isn’t that kind of a “Well, duh!” statement? Of course we react differently when it’s our friends doing something rather than our enemies. What’s so odd about that? ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Nader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Darth\_Nader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Nader)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2010, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-kills-us-citizens-not-really-this-is-a-sort-of-parody-thread/541473/24 "2010-06-01T14:57:51Z")
How can it be that people still don’t get this? Israel is pretty much all about overwhelming response: “You step on my foot? I’ll gouge your eyes out!” Really, they have to be. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2010, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-kills-us-citizens-not-really-this-is-a-sort-of-parody-thread/541473/25 "2010-06-01T15:03:58Z")
Weak. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2010, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-kills-us-citizens-not-really-this-is-a-sort-of-parody-thread/541473/26 "2010-06-01T15:43:19Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > Isn’t that kind of a “Well, duh!” statement? Of course we react differently when it’s our friends doing something rather than our enemies. What’s so odd about that? Hey, I didn’t write it - I just interpreted it for those who don’t get the point of analogies. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2010, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-kills-us-citizens-not-really-this-is-a-sort-of-parody-thread/541473/27 "2010-06-01T15:51:02Z")
Interestingly enough, when I thought the OP was real, I was having a very sinking feeling, thinking, “Oh no. This oughta do it.” That tells you something, in my opinion. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2010, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-kills-us-citizens-not-really-this-is-a-sort-of-parody-thread/541473/28 "2010-06-01T15:51:18Z")
> [@friedo](#): > > Weak. It’s the Oliver Stone version of events. ---
**Author:** ![PrettyVacant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/49beb7/32.png) [@PrettyVacant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PrettyVacant)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2010, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-kills-us-citizens-not-really-this-is-a-sort-of-parody-thread/541473/29 "2010-06-01T16:15:06Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > It’s the Oliver Stone version of events. More the Leon Uris / Exodus version imo. Which is to draw not too great a distinction. But then one person’s humanitarian is another’s terrorist sympathiser, or unarmed Flight 93-style hero. ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2010, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-kills-us-citizens-not-really-this-is-a-sort-of-parody-thread/541473/30 "2010-06-01T16:23:46Z")
> [@PrettyVacant](#): > > [Link](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_%E2%80%93_United_States_relations#United_States_military_and_economic_aid) [QUOTE=Forum Rules] we have two policies (in all forums): (1) Links should be described (in your text, outside the link itself), so that people know what they’re clicking on; and (2) all direct links should be “workplace safe” (the “two click” rule) In more detail: (1) LINKS SHOULD BE DESCRIBED When posting links, please be courteous to your fellow posters: describe what you are linking to. It does not have to be a lengthy description, but “See this political cartoon” is better than “This is funny!” [/QUOTE] [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=7697028#post7697028](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=7697028#post7697028) While we usually allow some leeway in The Pit, in the context of your OP, this link is misleading. Please remember for next time. No warning issued. **Gfactor** Pit Moderator ---
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2010, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-kills-us-citizens-not-really-this-is-a-sort-of-parody-thread/541473/31 "2010-06-01T17:38:04Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > You’ll have to prove that Israel == North Korea before this will work. You should have picked a more neutral country to prove your point that we’d react differently if it were another country. How’s [this](http://drezner.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2010/05/31/israels_increasingly_untenable_situation)? > [@](#): > > Indeed, the parallels between Israel and – gulp – North Korea are becoming pretty eerie. True, Israel’s economy is thriving and North Korea’s is not. That said, both countries are diplomatically isolated except for their ties to a great power benefactor. Both countries are pursuing autarkic policies that immiserate millions of people. The majority of the population in both countries seem blithely unaware of what the rest of the world thinks. Both countries face hostile regional environments. Both countries keep getting referred to the United Nations. And, in the past month, the great power benefactor is finding it more and more difficult to defend their behavior to the rest of the world. > > The Obama administration has reacted to this incident in remarkably similar ways to China’s reaction to the Cheonan incident – with a call for more information. Rachman wonders if there will be a quid pro quo on Iran and Israel at the Security Council. I wonder if the quid pro quo will involve Jerusalem and Pyongyang. > > Developing… in a ridiculously bad way for Israel. ---
**Author:** ![Camus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ba8739/32.png) [@Camus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Camus)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2010, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-kills-us-citizens-not-really-this-is-a-sort-of-parody-thread/541473/32 "2010-06-01T17:51:47Z")
> [@ArchiveGuy](#): > > How’s [this](http://drezner.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2010/05/31/israels_increasingly_untenable_situation)? You could make those same blandly generic parallels about Iran. But here is where the parallels break down: Israelis seem to know and understand what the rest of the world thinks about them or the state of Israel’s policies and actions. Israel is not anywhere close to being as diplomatically isolated as North Korea, at least in the big 5 security council states and the Western world in general. The regional hostilities that North Korea faces are largely, if not entirely, of the regime’s own making in an attempt to cling to political power. Israel’s regional hostilities are much more complex (peace with Egypt and Jordan, stand-off with Syria, cold war with Iran, intermittent guerrilla war with Hamas/Hezbollah) and not entirely due to their own actions. To sum it up, the “eerie parallels” are a mile wide and an inch deep. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2010, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-kills-us-citizens-not-really-this-is-a-sort-of-parody-thread/541473/33 "2010-06-01T17:52:06Z")
“both countries are diplomatically isolated except for their ties to a great power benefactor.” Nonsense. Just like the rest of it. ---
**Author:** ![Camus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ba8739/32.png) [@Camus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Camus)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2010, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-kills-us-citizens-not-really-this-is-a-sort-of-parody-thread/541473/34 "2010-06-01T18:03:57Z")
> [@ArchiveGuy](#): > > The Obama administration has reacted to this incident in remarkably similar ways to China’s reaction to the Cheonan incident – with a call for more information. Rachman wonders if there will be a quid pro quo on Iran and Israel at the Security Council. I wonder if the quid pro quo will involve Jerusalem and Pyongyang. And regarding this, if you’ll recall (or if Daniel Drezner will recall), neither the South Korean government or the United States government were blaming North Korea for sinking the _Cheonan_ until after an investigation made this conclusion after collecting and examining evidence. ---
**Author:** ![Death\_of\_Rats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a6a055/32.png) [@Death\_of\_Rats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Death_of_Rats)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2010, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-kills-us-citizens-not-really-this-is-a-sort-of-parody-thread/541473/35 "2010-06-01T21:38:33Z")
> [@PrettyVacant](#): > > News just in: > > Reports also suggest the unarmed, largely American crew fought heroically with sticks to resist the attack from the heavily armed invaders in the true spirit of Flight 93. > [@PrettyVacant](#): > > … had no choice but to kill the nine unarmed Americans. You may want to get your story straight first. Were they “heroically” fighting them off with sticks or unarmed? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2010, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-kills-us-citizens-not-really-this-is-a-sort-of-parody-thread/541473/36 "2010-06-01T23:02:24Z")
> [@](#): > > In the last hour North Korean specialist forces have intercepted a joint civilian US-Japanese flotilla of humanitarian aid ships 90 miles off the North Korean coast. Early reports indicate at least nine American deaths on one aid ship. If the North Korean’s were blockading the South then they would be at war already, so they would be fully justified in intercepting such a flotilla. Of course, since the US would already be at war with the North, it would kind of be a moot point, and it would also be militantly unsurprising if the NK’s did attempt such an interception, and if US personnel were killed. > [@](#): > > North Korean official sources confirmed the specialist forces, after one of their number had been thrown down a flight of stairs, had no choice but to kill the nine unarmed Americans. So, the NK’s intercepted a US ship and attacked the crew? Well, at least they didn’t sink it, I guess, since they would be within their rights to do so by the rules of war. (this isn’t really working out as you predicted, I’m thinking…but then, I don’t think you actually THOUGHT any of this through, ehe? \*sorry for the gratuitous ‘ehe’ there, I’m in a 12 step program, but just felt the need to toss that in anyway) > [@](#): > > At a hastily convened press conference, President Kim Il-sung expressed concerned at the injuries suffered by the North Korean soldiers and paid tribute to their professionalism. Why would he do this, since a state of war would already exist between the US and North Korea? For that matter, even if Japanese citizens were also killed, why would lil’ Kimmy give a shit? > [@](#): > > It is reported that North Korean forces, after extensive searches of all the aid vessels, found cutlery on board some, and possibly even broom handles. Why do you suppose this to be relevant? If the NK’s had declared a blockade of the South, what was or wasn’t found on board really wouldn’t matter. If they declared such a blockade, then a state of war would already exist between the US and the NK’s anyway. Not exactly a good parallel to what you REALLY wanted to rant about though, right? > [@](#): > > At a current total to the taxpayer of $3billion per annum, North Korea is the largest recipient per capita of military aid from the EU in the world, and has recently secured a further 25% increase on that figure for the next ten years. Supplemental to the $3billion is $2.82billion in additional military aid. North Korea has also requested a further sum of $2.25billion in “grants and loans”. Just the $8.32billion, then. And? I’m guessing that, even in your fantasy world that having declared war on SK by attempting to impose a blockade that they are going to be a bit pressed to get that money in the future. Just as a point of interest, you probably should have used China in your analogy instead of the EU. It still doesn’t work, but at least it wouldn’t have been so ridiculous. > [@](#): > > In street interviews later, Europeans expressed surprise that support for North Korea on such a large scale should in any way affect the attitude of the world towards the EU. Granted that the EU hates the US (:p), but…seriously? > [@](#): > > Vessels in the flotilla have been escorted from international waters to a North Korean port. The names of the nine dead American aid workers are being withheld until their families can be notified. Again, it’s just a good thing they didn’t sink the vessels, since a state of war would be in force as soon as they declared a blockade. In the real world I doubt the NK’s would even bother attempting to board such a flotilla (assuming they could actually get at one)…they would have just sunk it with all hands and moved on to something else. -XT ---
**Author:** ![PrettyVacant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/49beb7/32.png) [@PrettyVacant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PrettyVacant)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2010, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-kills-us-citizens-not-really-this-is-a-sort-of-parody-thread/541473/37 "2010-06-01T23:35:41Z")
Fuck me, what did you do before the Internet . . . . Death of Rats - unarmed, as in without arms. Gfactor - I only put the link in for the hard of thinking. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2010, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-kills-us-citizens-not-really-this-is-a-sort-of-parody-thread/541473/38 "2010-06-01T23:49:19Z")
[QUOTE=PrettyVacant] Fuck me, what did you do before the Internet . . . . [/QUOTE] Well, there was your mom, but frankly you have nicer legs… -XT ---
**Author:** ![emacknight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3ec8ea/32.png) [@emacknight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emacknight)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2010, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-kills-us-citizens-not-really-this-is-a-sort-of-parody-thread/541473/39 "2010-06-01T23:50:16Z")
> [@PrettyVacant](#): > > Death of Rats - unarmed, as in without arms. So how were they holding the sticks? ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2010, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-kills-us-citizens-not-really-this-is-a-sort-of-parody-thread/541473/40 "2010-06-02T01:26:19Z")
He didn’t say they didn’t have _hands_, just arms. Or maybe they were without arms _or_ hands, and they were moving the sticks telekinetically. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-kills-us-citizens-not-really-this-is-a-sort-of-parody-thread/541473.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-kills-us-citizens-not-really-this-is-a-sort-of-parody-thread/541473.md?page=3)