# North Korea suspending missile testing and closing nuclear site; Trump the statesman? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [April 20, 2018, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-suspending-missile-testing-and-closing-nuclear-site-trump-the-statesman/812829 "2018-04-20T23:09:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2018, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-suspending-missile-testing-and-closing-nuclear-site-trump-the-statesman/812829/281 "2018-05-18T02:14:45Z")
> [@penultima\_thule](#): > > That Trump as an international statesman and Nobel Peace prize nominee thing still working for you? Sweet Jesus, please, no. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2018, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-suspending-missile-testing-and-closing-nuclear-site-trump-the-statesman/812829/282 "2018-05-18T02:24:02Z")
> [@penultima\_thule](#): > > [Trump’s warning to Kim Jong-un: make a deal or suffer same fate as Gaddafi](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/may/17/north-korea-trump-latest-warning-kim-jong-un-gaddafi) > That Trump as an international statesman and Nobel Peace prize nominee thing still working for you? The crazy thing about that, of course, is that Gaddafi suffered the “fate of Gaddafi” at least in part because he did make that deal. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2018, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-suspending-missile-testing-and-closing-nuclear-site-trump-the-statesman/812829/283 "2018-05-18T02:39:05Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > The crazy thing about that, of course, is that Gaddafi suffered the “fate of Gaddafi” at least in part because he did make that deal. I would pay money to see Kim have a knife stuck up his ass. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2018, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-suspending-missile-testing-and-closing-nuclear-site-trump-the-statesman/812829/284 "2018-05-18T03:12:16Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > I would pay money to see Kim have a knife stuck up his ass. Aye; but how many lives would you pay for the same? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2018, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-suspending-missile-testing-and-closing-nuclear-site-trump-the-statesman/812829/285 "2018-05-18T03:34:10Z")
I just saw this pop up on the AP: [Ahead of Trump summit, Kim Jong Un crafts a careful message](https://apnews.com/2270a9f7718f4f1d820fb5556a4e61d5/Ahead-of-Trump-summit,-Kim-Jong-Un-crafts-a-careful-message). It echoes what a lot of people are saying here and provides info I personally hadn’t seen before, but suspected was the case. > [@](#): > > In a country where there is no Twitter but lots of fake news, North Koreans are getting a very different take than American media-watchers on what got the two leaders to the negotiating table and what they will be trying to accomplish. > > What North Koreans are hearing is that Kim is calling all the shots. That he’s a strategic genius whose bold nuclear policies have opened the door to Korean-led peace talks with the South. And that he has finally succeeded in forcing the leader of the most powerful country in the world to acknowledge their country’s new status. > [@](#): > > The North’s media didn’t even make their first explicit announcement of the Trump summit until last week. > > That news came May 10, the day after U.S. Secretary of State Mike Pompeo visited Pyongyang to work out details of the release of three American prisoners and finalize the summit’s venue and its June 12 date. The North’s ruling party newspaper put a photo of Kim shaking his hand on its front page. > [@](#): > > Much of the news getting out to the broader population is likely trickling down through the hierarchy of the ruling party. It is then disseminated out to the broader membership, believed to number several million, before spreading to others officially or through conversations or around-the-water-cooler sorts of ways. > > That process was set in motion in earnest last month, when Kim called a meeting of the party’s central committee and announced his decision to suspend nuclear tests and ICBM launches. The committee is comprised of more than 100 senior party members and a roughly equivalent number of alternates whose task is to make sure that party policies are understood and implemented throughout the country. > > Outside of North Korea, the announcement was widely reported as a major pre-summit concession. But that wasn’t the way it was presented to the party by Kim. > > Kim’s pitch was that under his leadership the country had in just five years completed its development of nuclear weapons, which he called a “miraculous victory” that meant there was no more need for testing and paved the way for the country to turn its attention to economic growth. > > North Korea, Kim announced, would never use nuclear weapons or transfer nuclear weapons or nuclear technology “unless there are nuclear threats and nuclear provocations” against it. He added that the North’s nuclear weapons are “a powerful treasured sword for defending peace” that guarantee future generations “can enjoy the most dignified and happiest life in the world.” > > Kim’s message to his own people so far, in other words, sounds a lot like the opposite of denuclearization. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2018, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-suspending-missile-testing-and-closing-nuclear-site-trump-the-statesman/812829/286 "2018-05-18T19:19:17Z")
I expect that in a year or so, the “nuclear talks” charade will be seen as an elaborate ruse to cover the collapse, demolition, and re-establishment of NK nuclear test infrastructure. “See, we blew up our totally not-collapsed nuclear test site in good faith, but since America screwed up the talks, we’ll just have to build a new test site now. Maybe on more stable ground this time. Not that the previous one collapsed or anything.” ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2018, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-suspending-missile-testing-and-closing-nuclear-site-trump-the-statesman/812829/287 "2018-05-18T19:57:14Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > I expect that in a year or so, the “nuclear talks” charade will be seen as an elaborate ruse to cover the collapse, demolition, and re-establishment of NK nuclear test infrastructure. “See, we blew up our totally not-collapsed nuclear test site in good faith, but since America screwed up the talks, we’ll just have to build a new test site now. Maybe on more stable ground this time. Not that the previous one collapsed or anything.” Are you a public relations guy for North Korea? Tell Kim he needs a better haircut. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2018, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-suspending-missile-testing-and-closing-nuclear-site-trump-the-statesman/812829/288 "2018-05-19T14:29:37Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > I just saw this pop up on the AP: [Ahead of Trump summit, Kim Jong Un crafts a careful message](https://apnews.com/2270a9f7718f4f1d820fb5556a4e61d5/Ahead-of-Trump-summit,-Kim-Jong-Un-crafts-a-careful-message). > > It echoes what a lot of people are saying here and provides info I personally hadn’t seen before, but suspected was the case. If you read between the lines, Kim Jung Un is already essentially getting ahead of Trump in setting the terms of any agreement. As has probably already been mentioned here or on other NK threads, Kim wants an end to sanctions for one thing, but no less important, he views the continued indefinite US military presence in South Korea and East Asia as a threat, and he intends to do something about it. He may not get the US and South Korea to end their mutual security agreement, but he does absolutely intend to make it a less potent and less real threat against his regime. Threatening to pull out over the joint exercises is not just Kim being fussy and capricious; it’s his equivalent of the brush back pitch. There’s no meeting yet, but this is one of his first stipulations. He’s setting up what negotiations will look like. And I suspect Mr. Art of the Deal may not have any fucking clue that this is in fact what’s happening right now. Trump’s not setting the tempo of the meeting; he’s reacting to it, because he doesn’t have a coherent policy of any kind. Bolton, on the other hand, does have one. Pompeo might have one as well, and they might not be the same. It’ll be interesting to see who wins within the administration in terms of influence. Jim Mattis might still have a role to play yet. ---
**Author:** ![voltaire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voltaire/32/313_2.png) [@voltaire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/voltaire)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2018, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-suspending-missile-testing-and-closing-nuclear-site-trump-the-statesman/812829/289 "2018-05-19T19:01:36Z")
When you step back and look at the very basic macro view of the whole thing, I think it’s clear that now that NK has a minimally credible nuclear capability, they are now pursuing the best way to capitalize on it. It’s not a coincidence that semi-serious reunification talk pops up as soon as NK nuke-triculated, as if the two things were somehow complimentary. Reunification and denuclearization will be the dangling carrots on infinitely long sticks that NK uses to extort untold concessions from SK. NK doesn’t actually need any concessions or sanctions relief from the US if the SK tap is flowing and they have all sorts of cooperative projects to _very, very, very slowly_ “refamiliarize” the Korean people. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2018, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-suspending-missile-testing-and-closing-nuclear-site-trump-the-statesman/812829/290 "2018-05-20T02:01:01Z")
> [@voltaire](#): > > NK doesn’t actually need any concessions or sanctions relief from the US if the SK tap is flowing and they have all sorts of cooperative projects to _very, very, very slowly_ “refamiliarize” the Korean people. They need food. My Arkansas has a lot of chickens, rice and soybeans. Perhaps they should speak with Governor Hutcheson rather than President Trump. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2018, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-suspending-missile-testing-and-closing-nuclear-site-trump-the-statesman/812829/291 "2018-05-20T04:59:32Z")
Cool! We can start airlifting them in, maybe couple of days, a week or so… ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2018, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-suspending-missile-testing-and-closing-nuclear-site-trump-the-statesman/812829/292 "2018-05-20T05:20:58Z")
[Kim is now demanding the return of 12 defectors.](https://nypost.com/2018/05/19/kim-jong-un-is-making-new-demands/) ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2018, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-suspending-missile-testing-and-closing-nuclear-site-trump-the-statesman/812829/293 "2018-05-21T15:32:53Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > Perhaps they should speak with Governor Hutcheson rather than President Trump. 🙂 Asa first step at least, not a bad idea. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2018, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-suspending-missile-testing-and-closing-nuclear-site-trump-the-statesman/812829/294 "2018-05-21T15:40:41Z")
Saw [this tweet](https://twitter.com/annafifield/status/998320544729612288) from Anna Fifield, the WaPo Tokyo bureau chief: > [@](#): > > Trump administration official on North Korea: “It doesn’t look like they want to denuclearize at all.” > > Entire North Korea expert community: “No shit, Sherlock.” ETA: Remember when people used to say “the grownups are back in charge” when a GOP Administration began? How quaint. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2018, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-suspending-missile-testing-and-closing-nuclear-site-trump-the-statesman/812829/295 "2018-05-22T13:25:19Z")
Trump put out a coin for the summit. It calls Kim the “Supreme Leader” which is a title he never uses and is not used in N. Korea. He is chairman of the workers party and chairman of state affairs commission. Guess those won’t fit on a coin ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2018, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-suspending-missile-testing-and-closing-nuclear-site-trump-the-statesman/812829/296 "2018-05-22T19:02:28Z")
[Trump suggests summit with NKorea’s Kim could be ‘delayed’](https://apnews.com/2e94b11779614fff98c3f59b10a35518/Trump-suggests-summit-with-NKorea's-Kim-could-be-delayed) > [@](#): > > President Donald Trump suggested Tuesday that a planned historic meeting with North Korea’s Kim Jong Un could be delayed. He said, “There’s a very substantial chance that it won’t work out” for June 12. > > Trump raised the possibility that the meeting could be pushed back during a White House meeting with South Korea President Moon Jae-in, trying to coordinate strategy as concerns mounted over ensuring a successful outcome for the North Korea summit. > > Trump told reporters: “If it doesn’t happen, maybe it happens later,” > [@](#): > > Trump said “there’s a very substantial chance” that the meeting won’t take place on June 12. “That doesn’t mean it won’t work out over a period of time,” he said. “But it may not work out for June 12. But there is a good chance that we’ll have the meeting.” 😃 Ever the statesman: > [@](#): > > Trump said he’d noticed “a little change” in Kim Jong Un’s “attitude” after Kim took a second trip to China this month in the run-up to the summit. “I don’t like that,” Trump said. :dubious::rolleyes: Check out this loaded gun, er, statement (helpfully bolded): > [@](#): > > Trump encouraged Kim to seize the opportunity for the meeting and to make a deal to abandon his nuclear program, pledging not only to guarantee Kim’s personal security, but also predicting an economic revitalization for the North. > > **“I will guarantee his safety, yes,” Trump said, if Kim agrees to complete, verifiable, and irreversible denuclearization.** Sure, he’ll give up the only thing protecting him from the US and instead rely on the US to protect him; that’s gonna happen. It’s a no-brainer, right? :dubious::rolleyes: Meanwhile, behind the facade of this innocent looking bookstore: > [@](#): > > Fresh questions were raised Tuesday about North Korea’s goals and motives, with a Pentagon report to Congress that says nuclear weapons are central to North Korea’s strategic goal of ensuring the perpetual the rule of the Kim family dynasty. The report on North Korea’s military capabilities was based on an assessment of developments in 2017 and was provided to Congress in April. It was posted online by an anti-secrecy group. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2018, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-suspending-missile-testing-and-closing-nuclear-site-trump-the-statesman/812829/297 "2018-05-22T20:46:52Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > Trump put out a coin for the summit. It calls Kim the “Supreme Leader” which is a title he never uses and is not used in N. Korea. He is chairman of the workers party and chairman of state affairs commission. Guess those won’t fit on a coin Turns out it’s a coin made by the White House Communications Agency, a DoD unit that supports presidential travel, not Trump. WHCA makes a coin for all international travel they support. No taxpayer funds are used for these coins. And let’s get real, the personnel who have time to make a coin are often those whose skills are not in high demand for, say, operating sensitive electronics. The fac that “President Trump” is spelled correctly means that they took their time with this design effort. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2018, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-suspending-missile-testing-and-closing-nuclear-site-trump-the-statesman/812829/298 "2018-05-22T20:48:27Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > Saw [this tweet](https://twitter.com/annafifield/status/998320544729612288) from Anna Fifield, the WaPo Tokyo bureau chief: > > > [@](#): > > > > Trump administration official on North Korea: “It doesn’t look like they want to denuclearize at all.” > > > > Entire North Korea expert community: “No shit, Sherlock.” As has been said already in this thread, “Nobody knew that disarming North Korea could be so complicated.” ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2018, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-suspending-missile-testing-and-closing-nuclear-site-trump-the-statesman/812829/299 "2018-05-22T21:31:53Z")
And as is obvious, even Trump supporters who use the words “Trump” and “statesman” in the same sentence end the sentence with a question mark. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2018, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-suspending-missile-testing-and-closing-nuclear-site-trump-the-statesman/812829/300 "2018-05-23T01:52:06Z")
The state of Ignorance, maybe. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-suspending-missile-testing-and-closing-nuclear-site-trump-the-statesman/812829.md?page=14) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-suspending-missile-testing-and-closing-nuclear-site-trump-the-statesman/812829.md?page=16)