# North Korea suspending missile testing and closing nuclear site; Trump the statesman? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [April 20, 2018, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-suspending-missile-testing-and-closing-nuclear-site-trump-the-statesman/812829 "2018-04-20T23:09:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 22
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2018, 7:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-suspending-missile-testing-and-closing-nuclear-site-trump-the-statesman/812829/421 "2018-06-01T07:27:04Z")
> [@Silver\_lining](#): > > The Koreans could have used the destruction of the mountain as part of the T’s and C’s of the deal. By destroying it after Trump’s initial walk away, I think it was a positive sign they are ready to make a deal. > > Once this historic meeting happens, it will be interesting to see how the left accepts it. > > The time for change is now, and the right president who understands peace is best made through strength ( Like Reagan ) is directing it. You really are hook, line, and sinker, aren’t you? Strength through ignorance, you mean. That never goes wrong. Tell me about how pulling out of the Iran agreement advanced peace. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2018, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-suspending-missile-testing-and-closing-nuclear-site-trump-the-statesman/812829/422 "2018-06-05T21:28:34Z")
Kim’s buddy the worm Dennis Rodman will be in Singapore next week. Probably a publicity stunt. But maybe Kim will have lunch with Dennis. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2018, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-suspending-missile-testing-and-closing-nuclear-site-trump-the-statesman/812829/423 "2018-06-05T21:58:42Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > Kim’s buddy the worm Dennis Rodman will be in Singapore next week. Probably a publicity stunt. But maybe Kim will have lunch with Dennis. Does Dennis stand for the National Anthem? ---
**Author:** ![penultima\_thule](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penultima_thule/32/3833_2.png) [@penultima\_thule](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/penultima_thule)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2018, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-suspending-missile-testing-and-closing-nuclear-site-trump-the-statesman/812829/424 "2018-06-06T00:09:26Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > Seriously, a country can test nukes wherever the hell they want. Give the devil their due, they are testing this stuff in their own back yard as distinct from say Bikini Atoll, Maralinga and Moruroa. So no, a country shouldn’t test nukes wherever the hell they want. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2018, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-suspending-missile-testing-and-closing-nuclear-site-trump-the-statesman/812829/425 "2018-06-06T01:37:43Z")
> [@penultima\_thule](#): > > Give the devil their due, they are testing this stuff in their own back yard as distinct from say Bikini Atoll, Maralinga and Moruroa. > So no, a country shouldn’t test nukes wherever the hell they want. I believe there are treaties regarding where nuclear weapons may be tested, but I doubt that North Korea has agreed to them. NK certainly have little space to set one off above ground. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2018, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-suspending-missile-testing-and-closing-nuclear-site-trump-the-statesman/812829/426 "2018-06-06T03:41:25Z")
> [@Silver\_lining](#): > > The Koreans could have used the destruction of the mountain as part of the T’s and C’s of the deal. By destroying it after Trump’s initial walk away, I think it was a positive sign they are ready to make a deal. The simplest explanation would be, as has already been reported, that it collapsed and was unusable. The ceremony of “destroying it” was simply a convenient way to cover that up. > [@](#): > > Once this historic meeting happens, it will be interesting to see how the left accepts it. It will be more interesting to see how the right accepts it. Because if there is a meeting, here is how it will go: North Korea is never denuclearizing. The entertainment value will be seeing how the right tries to spin and re-spin this fact again and again. Bonus spin points if Trump makes major pre-emptive concessions (apart from, you know, finally legitimizing NK with direct bilateral talks). And of course there’s entertainment value in seeing the right abandon the talking point “We’ll never talk to someone who brutally murdered his own people!” Guess what, we do, and the right has flipped toward being absolutely fine with that. ---
**Author:** ![Silver\_lining](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aca169/32.png) [@Silver\_lining](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silver_lining)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2018, 11:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-suspending-missile-testing-and-closing-nuclear-site-trump-the-statesman/812829/427 "2018-06-06T11:29:59Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > “Once this historic meeting happens”…is when the fun really begins. Catch up, Asahi, the meeting itself is historic. I think Trump comes away with a deal, and for the sake of unity, I hope the left can see whatever good side of the deal there is. ---
**Author:** ![Silver\_lining](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aca169/32.png) [@Silver\_lining](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silver_lining)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2018, 11:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-suspending-missile-testing-and-closing-nuclear-site-trump-the-statesman/812829/428 "2018-06-06T11:33:26Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > It will be more interesting to see how the right accepts it. Because if there is a meeting, here is how it will go: > > North Korea is never denuclearizing. The entertainment value will be seeing how the right tries to spin and re-spin this fact again and again. Bonus spin points if Trump makes major pre-emptive concessions (apart from, you know, finally legitimizing NK with direct bilateral talks). > > And of course there’s entertainment value in seeing the right abandon the talking point “We’ll never talk to someone who brutally murdered his own people!” Guess what, we do, and the right has flipped toward being absolutely fine with that. Well, Trump and his team are not going to bend over at the waist and offer access to a 100 billion dollars. I see a de-nulearization, or agreement to stop making nukes, and perhaps a business deal. We shall is. China is a little nervous. North Korea’s very cheap labor with south Korea’s know how could make a very good trading partner if you know what I mean. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2018, 11:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-suspending-missile-testing-and-closing-nuclear-site-trump-the-statesman/812829/429 "2018-06-06T11:46:38Z")
> [@Silver\_lining](#): > > Well, Trump and his team are not going to bend over at the waist and offer access to a 100 billion dollars. What do you think North Korea wants in return for denuclearizing? ---
**Author:** ![BeepKillBeep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9e8a1a/32.png) [@BeepKillBeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeepKillBeep)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2018, 12:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-suspending-missile-testing-and-closing-nuclear-site-trump-the-statesman/812829/430 "2018-06-06T12:18:49Z")
> [@Silver\_lining](#): > > Catch up, Asahi, the meeting itself is historic. > > I think Trump comes away with a deal, and for the sake of unity, I hope the left can see whatever good side of the deal there is. At what point do you think people like you will see Trump for what he really is … you know … for the sake of unity? ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2018, 12:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-suspending-missile-testing-and-closing-nuclear-site-trump-the-statesman/812829/431 "2018-06-06T12:22:45Z")
> [@Silver\_lining](#): > > I think Trump comes away with a deal, and for the sake of unity, **I hope the left can see whatever good side of the deal there is.** > [@Silver\_lining](#): > > Well, Trump and his team are not going to bend over at the waist and offer access to a 100 billion dollars. I see a de-nulearization, or agreement to stop making nukes, and perhaps a business deal. We shall is. Too bad you didn’t apply the same reasoning to the Iran deal. Project much? ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2018, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-suspending-missile-testing-and-closing-nuclear-site-trump-the-statesman/812829/432 "2018-06-06T12:55:36Z")
> [@Silver\_lining](#): > > Catch up, Asahi, the meeting itself is historic. In the sense that this is something that North Korea has always wanted and the US has never granted it, right? Because the stumbling block to a NK-US summit has _never_ been “North Korea didn’t want to talk leader-to-leader”. > [@Silver\_lining](#): > > Well, Trump and his team are not going to bend over at the waist and offer access to a 100 billion dollars. I see a de-nulearization, or agreement to stop making nukes, and perhaps a business deal. We shall is. If you offer “North Korea agrees to abandon its nuclear weapons program within the next 2 years” as a bet to me, I’ll fucking bet you my next paycheck against it. I’d hit up as many people as I could to borrow money to bet on it. I’d take out a fucking bank loan. No, seriously, find me a bookie and we’ll make it happen. Punish me for my stupidity. Put your money where your mouth is - or for the love of god stop saying such insane predictions. “Acquire nuclear weapons at all cost because if we don’t we’ll eventually end up being the next Sadam Hussein or Omar Qaddafi” has been North Korea’s entire foreign policy strategy for the past several decades. If you believe that Trump can somehow convince them to denuclearize, then I would almost feel bad about taking your money - so I’d settle for 2:1 odds. (Or, failing that, you could probably make a fucking killing on PredictIt or some related prediction market. Because if you offer that bet, people who actually know anything about North Korea will be laughing at you all the way to the fucking bank.) ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2018, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-suspending-missile-testing-and-closing-nuclear-site-trump-the-statesman/812829/433 "2018-06-06T13:36:44Z")
> [@Silver\_lining](#): > > Well, Trump and his team are not going to bend over at the waist and offer access to a 100 billion dollars. I see a de-nulearization, or agreement to stop making nukes, and perhaps a business deal. We shall is. > > China is a little nervous. North Korea’s very cheap labor with south Korea’s know how could make a very good trading partner if you know what I mean. Slavery? ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2018, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-suspending-missile-testing-and-closing-nuclear-site-trump-the-statesman/812829/434 "2018-06-06T14:52:10Z")
Uh… [yeah… sure, whatever you say, Rudy](http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/ny-pol-rudy-trump-north-korea-summit-20180606-story.html)… > [@](#): > > President Trump’s personal lawyer said North Korean leader Kim Jong Un got “on his hands and knees and begged” for their summit to be held after Trump canceled the sit-down last month, according to a report Wednesday. > > Former mayor Rudy Giuliani told the crowd at an investment conference in Israel that Kim came crawling back to the negotiating table last month after Trump scrapped the meeting… ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2018, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-suspending-missile-testing-and-closing-nuclear-site-trump-the-statesman/812829/435 "2018-06-06T17:32:17Z")
> [@Steve\_MB](#): > > Uh… [yeah… sure, whatever you say, Rudy](http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/ny-pol-rudy-trump-north-korea-summit-20180606-story.html)… Does he think that Kim Jong Un has no access to western media? Does he not realize that this will now be part of the negotiating posture that NK presents? It is not a good idea to publicly belittle your adversary right before treating with them, IMO. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2018, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-suspending-missile-testing-and-closing-nuclear-site-trump-the-statesman/812829/436 "2018-06-06T17:50:18Z")
For someone who knows only bullying as a strategy - hell, even as a \*goal \*in itself - it’s completely consistent. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2018, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-suspending-missile-testing-and-closing-nuclear-site-trump-the-statesman/812829/437 "2018-06-07T01:29:24Z")
> [@Silver\_lining](#): > > Well, Trump and his team are not going to bend over at the waist and offer access to a 100 billion dollars. I see a de-nuclearization, or agreement to stop making nukes, and perhaps a business deal. Do you not agree that the entire US motivation for this summit is to eliminate NK’s ability to strike the US (and to a lesser degree Asian allies) with nuclear weapons, and any deal short of verifiable elimination of their arsenal would fail on that count? Do you not agree that a lopsided deal would be terrible, that if Trump gives away enormous concessions in exchange for trivial or unverifiable promises, it fail to meet the top national security priority driving this meeting? Do you not see that Trump has already made enormous concessions with no assurances - granting the Kim dynasty face-to-face talks with a US president, and cancelling the Max Thunder exercises? If Trump gives away serious concessions - withdrawing US troops, granting a large aid package… in exchange for a sack of magic beans that don’t result in denuclearization… will you agree this entire production is a farce and a charade? Why do you expect North Korea will give up its most potent tool for survival on the word of a demonstrably unreliable, untrustworthy, and weak president? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2018, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-suspending-missile-testing-and-closing-nuclear-site-trump-the-statesman/812829/438 "2018-06-07T01:42:44Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > Do you not agree that the entire US motivation for this summit is to eliminate NK’s ability to strike the US (and to a lesser degree Asian allies) with nuclear weapons, and any deal short of verifiable elimination of their arsenal would fail on that count? Yes. The entire US motivation of this summit is to stroke Trump’s ego. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2018, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-suspending-missile-testing-and-closing-nuclear-site-trump-the-statesman/812829/439 "2018-06-07T01:54:48Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Yes. The entire US motivation of this summit is to stroke Trump’s ego. Well, we all know that’s what Trump wants, but the stated “red line” was to protect US cities at the expense of everyone else everywhere else. Not a fan of how all this is going down, but if we’re doing this, let’s at least get that much done. I really like Seattle. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2018, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-suspending-missile-testing-and-closing-nuclear-site-trump-the-statesman/812829/440 "2018-06-07T15:20:47Z")
> [@Silver\_lining](#): > > Catch up, Asahi, the meeting itself is historic. > > I think Trump comes away with a deal, and for the sake of unity, I hope the left can see whatever good side of the deal there is. I keep asking myself if Kim Jung Un actually sees benefit in helping Trump, in providing political cover. It’s entirely possible that he does - after all, Trump is giving the Kim regime unprecedented levels of attention of international legitimacy. But if Kim believes that there’s benefit to keeping Trump around in the short term, then perhaps they strike some sort of tentative framework. A framework or a plan to denuclearize is absolutely within the realm of the possible. But plans for a house, ain’t a house. I don’t see how Kim benefits from giving up the weapons that have earned him this meeting in the first place. An agreement not to produce more? Possible. Agreement to suspend missile production? Maybe. But to de-fang himself? I just don’t see it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-suspending-missile-testing-and-closing-nuclear-site-trump-the-statesman/812829.md?page=21) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-suspending-missile-testing-and-closing-nuclear-site-trump-the-statesman/812829.md?page=23)