# North Korea suspending missile testing and closing nuclear site; Trump the statesman? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [April 20, 2018, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-suspending-missile-testing-and-closing-nuclear-site-trump-the-statesman/812829 "2018-04-20T23:09:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 26
**Author:** ![Locrian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/locrian/32/14146_2.png) [@Locrian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Locrian)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2018, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-suspending-missile-testing-and-closing-nuclear-site-trump-the-statesman/812829/501 "2018-06-12T01:49:08Z")
Think of the okra! And the probable okra tariff hike to 350%! This will ruin our trade war! ---
**Author:** ![lokij](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/5e9695/32.png) [@lokij](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lokij)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2018, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-suspending-missile-testing-and-closing-nuclear-site-trump-the-statesman/812829/502 "2018-06-12T01:58:53Z")
> [@Silver\_lining](#): > > Reversing a question without answering it? You can reply later. > > 1 ) North Korea showing us something we don’t know about their Nuclear Program. Details, amounts, locations, etc… > > 2 ) Allowing USA inspections, whenever we want them and where ever we want them. > > 3 ) North Korea loosening up their security around the demilitarized zone, and South Korea doing the same. > > 4 ) Eyewitness the destruction of their nuclear weapons and change their plants for power and electricity if possible > > In return, the USA could: > > 1 ) Offer North Korea protection. > > 2 ) Losen up sanctions. > > 3 ) Open up the possibility of trade. With a lot of cheap labor and South Korea’s know-how, North Korea can export goods to the USA. > > Kim Jon-Un’s eyes probably were opened during the Olympics. He saw South Korea’s progress and looks at his barren land. He likely knows that victory for North Korea on the world stage cannot be achieved by the strength of arms, rather by giving up what they have that is dangerous, which perhaps was his plan all along. Either way, I say take that deal. Kim’s eyes didn’t need to be opened by an Olympics, it’s not as if he was secluded away in isolation his entire life in North Korea… he attended a Swiss boarding school for fuck’s sake. He’s been at the tip-top of the elites from day one, he’s always been aware of the real status of his country relative to others, it just doesn’t concern him as long as he stays king of shit mountain. That’s what victory is for him, it’s not nuking the USA or South Korea or Japan, bellicose rhetoric to that end is purely a means to an end… his regime remaining firmly in power. He’s achieved more in the past year to cement his status among his people, especially the military elites, than he could possibly have hoped… all because Trump played into his hands. He’s being met with as an equal, the US caved on its long standing policy of not rewarding bad behavior with splashy diplomatic initiatives and he has tons of footage of himself being treated with respect by other world leaders. He’s going to keep his nukes. He might agree to some arbitrary but pointless limit (like 50, or whatever… ), signing some formal peace treaty and re-positioning his conventional forces slightly further from the DMZ. For those returns I don’t consider what we’ve already given him worth it. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2018, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-suspending-missile-testing-and-closing-nuclear-site-trump-the-statesman/812829/503 "2018-06-12T02:02:23Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > I predict Kim will sign an agreement to do all these things, and Trump will declare the summit a triumphal success. > > Then Kim won’t do anything he agreed to. And **Silver lining** will wave his MAGA hat and mindlessly chant “Four more years!” I think both sides will declare the summit to be an unprecedented success, but there will be absolutely no consensus as to what, if anything, was accomplished. There will be absolutely no agreement as to what was agreed upon. And you know that this will be covered by North Korean state TV. And when it is, it will be about how the US President came to bow down and grovel before their Mighty Great Glorious Leader. And this will leak back to the media and Trump will throw a tantrum and start threatening Kim again ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2018, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-suspending-missile-testing-and-closing-nuclear-site-trump-the-statesman/812829/504 "2018-06-12T02:31:39Z")
> [@Silver\_lining](#): > > You really have no clue. … > > Until then who cares if Iran says they are going to reduce their centrifuges. Why not stop spinning them? That would be a step toward a deal. > > Obama was such a fool. You’re throwing around insults about other people, but the sentence in the middle of your insult sandwich contains an error that would not be made by someone who knows something about the JCPOA (“the deal” as you may know it). In 2015, Iran had over 20,000 centrifuges. “The deal” limited them to 1,000 for various scientific activities, with the restriction that they cannot be used for highly enriched uranium. Independent inspectors have verified that Iran is holding to both those commitments, including putting the prohibited centrifuges in a verifiable state of non-use. [IAEA and Iran: Chronology of Key Events | IAEA](https://www.iaea.org/newscenter/focus/iran/chronology-of-key-events) If you’re so busy calling others so ignorant, how are you so unaware of a fact like this? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Stainless\_Steel\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_stainless_steel_rat/32/5727_2.png) [@The\_Stainless\_Steel\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Stainless_Steel_Rat)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2018, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-suspending-missile-testing-and-closing-nuclear-site-trump-the-statesman/812829/505 "2018-06-12T02:33:17Z")
A minor point, perhaps, but apparently President Trump kept his ‘pull-em-in-towards me’ handshake in his pocket and made what looked to be fairly normal handshakes with Kim. I was worried (and while it sounds odd, with this President you worry about things like this) is that he would Yank Kim off balance so he fell, Kim’s security guards would rush in, our Secret Service would rush in, and… Fortunately that didn’t happen…but there are more handshakes to go. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2018, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-suspending-missile-testing-and-closing-nuclear-site-trump-the-statesman/812829/506 "2018-06-12T04:16:03Z")
I think Trump waddled more assertively that Kim did. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2018, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-suspending-missile-testing-and-closing-nuclear-site-trump-the-statesman/812829/507 "2018-06-12T05:59:31Z")
What the hell did they just sign? ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2018, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-suspending-missile-testing-and-closing-nuclear-site-trump-the-statesman/812829/508 "2018-06-12T06:20:56Z")
Trump just cemented his 2nd term. No way he loses now. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2018, 7:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-suspending-missile-testing-and-closing-nuclear-site-trump-the-statesman/812829/509 "2018-06-12T07:03:17Z")
> [@Grrr](#): > > Trump just cemented his 2nd term. No way he loses now. He signed an unspecified “comprehensive” document. [Trump says it’s merely a document saying they will continue negotiating](https://www.cnbc.com/2018/06/12/trump-and-kim-sign-agreement-document-after-summit-in-singapore.html), meaning it did basically nothing. It’s a PR stunt, not anything of substance. But even if he does eventually sign something, there’s no reason to jump to defeat that quickly. We all knew going in that Trump may be tricked into signing something. That’s one of the things we were worried about–what would doofus Trump sign us up for? And, even if it somehow is a good deal, it’s not like that means much of anything. The Iran deal was a very good deal for everyone, that people had been trying to get for decades, but there was no problem making it seem like a really bad deal. Being defeatist is never a good thing. Sure, acknowledge the PR-stunt’s effectiveness, but don’t worry that all is lost. Evil only wins when good has lost all hope. ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2018, 7:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-suspending-missile-testing-and-closing-nuclear-site-trump-the-statesman/812829/510 "2018-06-12T07:43:33Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > He signed an unspecified “comprehensive” document. [Trump says it’s merely a document saying they will continue negotiating](https://www.cnbc.com/2018/06/12/trump-and-kim-sign-agreement-document-after-summit-in-singapore.html), meaning it did basically nothing. It’s a PR stunt, not anything of substance. Which is still more than Obama or any other democrat has done. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2018, 8:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-suspending-missile-testing-and-closing-nuclear-site-trump-the-statesman/812829/511 "2018-06-12T08:09:21Z")
> [@Drunky\_Smurf](#): > > Which is still more than Obama or any other democrat has done. Who got more out of this stunt, America or North Korea? ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2018, 8:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-suspending-missile-testing-and-closing-nuclear-site-trump-the-statesman/812829/512 "2018-06-12T08:21:48Z")
North Korea got some real concessions, but realistically, that was going to have to happen at some point as we moved from nonproliferation to deterrence (a change much of the foreign policy establishment has resisted making at all), and if doing a big shiny TV summit distracts Trump for a while and gets him to stop listening to the John Boltons, this is probably the least worst path possible. [This](https://theintercept.com/2018/06/11/who-cares-what-trump-gives-north-korea-at-the-summit-what-matters-is-preventing-him-from-starting-a-nuclear-war/) is pretty much my view on this whole charade: > [@](#): > > We should all pray that Tuesday is the beginning of long, drawn-out negotiations — whether extremely successful or empty and fruitless — since as long as discussions continue in any form, it will be exceedingly difficult for Trump to mobilize the necessary support for war. Should we open 37 McDonald’s locations in Pyongyang? Invite Kim Jong Un to the Mar-a-Lago Christmas party? Ask him to host “Saturday Night Live”? Sure, why not. All that truly matters is that the world just holds on until the United States has another president. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2018, 8:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-suspending-missile-testing-and-closing-nuclear-site-trump-the-statesman/812829/513 "2018-06-12T08:35:33Z")
I agree, anything that ties Bolton’s hands is good, but we should be under no illusion that Kim’s production of nuclear weapons and technology has abated in the slightest. We are certainly no safer than we were at the end of the Obama administration. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2018, 9:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-suspending-missile-testing-and-closing-nuclear-site-trump-the-statesman/812829/514 "2018-06-12T09:24:36Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > What the hell did they just sign? [Text of the document.](https://www.cnn.com/2018/06/12/politics/read-full-text-of-trump-kim-signed-statement/index.html) ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2018, 9:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-suspending-missile-testing-and-closing-nuclear-site-trump-the-statesman/812829/515 "2018-06-12T09:56:14Z")
[Trump unilaterally abandons joint training exercises with South Korea, without any concessions from North Korea:](http://cnbc.com/id/105266838) > [@](#): > > Importantly, the U.S. leader did reveal that his country will be stopping the war games it conducts near North Korea. > > That, he said, “will save us a tremendous amount of money — unless and until we see that the future negotiation is not going along like it should … Plus I think it’s very provocative.” > > He strongly implied that South Korea doesn’t pay enough for those exercises: “That’s certainly a subject that we have to talk to them about.” ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2018, 10:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-suspending-missile-testing-and-closing-nuclear-site-trump-the-statesman/812829/516 "2018-06-12T10:03:36Z")
> [@Drunky\_Smurf](#): > > Which is still more than Obama or any other democrat has done. Quite right - neither Obama nor the Democrats, nor indeed either Bush nor Clinton, have done anything quite this stupid with regard to the Koreas. Kim gets the legitimization and the seat at the table he and his family have always wanted, South Korea gets the rug pulled out from under them, and America gets…well, nothing so far apart from empty promises. Art of the Deal, baby! ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2018, 10:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-suspending-missile-testing-and-closing-nuclear-site-trump-the-statesman/812829/517 "2018-06-12T10:10:20Z")
The TL:DR version: Kim saw the Dotard coming a mile away and cleaned him out. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2018, 10:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-suspending-missile-testing-and-closing-nuclear-site-trump-the-statesman/812829/518 "2018-06-12T10:22:23Z")
> [@Ann\_Hedonia](#): > > I think both sides will declare the summit to be an unprecedented success, but there will be absolutely no consensus as to what, if anything, was accomplished. There will be absolutely no agreement as to what was agreed upon. > > And you know that this will be covered by North Korean state TV. And when it is, it will be about how the US President came to bow down and grovel before their Mighty Great Glorious Leader. > > And this will leak back to the media and Trump will throw a tantrum and start threatening Kim again Realistically, I don’t think either side expected anything concrete from this single meeting. Think of it like dating: This was more like the first coffee date at Starbucks - where it leads, whether it leads to something else…who knows? ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2018, 10:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-suspending-missile-testing-and-closing-nuclear-site-trump-the-statesman/812829/519 "2018-06-12T10:27:38Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > Quite right - neither Obama nor the Democrats, nor indeed either Bush nor Clinton, have done anything quite this stupid with regard to the Koreas. Kim gets the legitimization and the seat at the table he and his family have always wanted, South Korea gets the rug pulled out from under them, and America gets…well, nothing so far apart from empty promises. Art of the Deal, baby! It might be stupid, or it might also be brilliant, or it might be something in between. It’s entirely possible that Trump, the president himself, can live with Kim retaining some of the weapons he already has for self-defense purposes. Maybe Trump personally doesn’t care about keeping troops in the Pacific. He does strike me as being a genuine isolationist. Now how John Bolton and how his military feel about that is another matter. But it’s the president’s word that counts most. He just doesn’t want to look stupid. So if Trump agrees to end sanctions in exchange for a freeze of his weapons program and inspections, then he doesn’t want Kim playing games. I guess my point is, we already know that Trump’s presidency is going to turn American foreign policy - and the foreign policy of everyone else - on its head. Conventional assumptions about how countries approach foreign policy are no longer operative. Whether that works to our benefit - and I tend to think it will not, for the record - is a different question. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2018, 11:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-suspending-missile-testing-and-closing-nuclear-site-trump-the-statesman/812829/520 "2018-06-12T11:27:59Z")
> [@Grrr](#): > > Trump just cemented his 2nd term. No way he loses now. Didn’t you also say this after Trump brushed his own teeth for the first time last week? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-suspending-missile-testing-and-closing-nuclear-site-trump-the-statesman/812829.md?page=25) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-suspending-missile-testing-and-closing-nuclear-site-trump-the-statesman/812829.md?page=27)