# North Korea suspending missile testing and closing nuclear site; Trump the statesman? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [April 20, 2018, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-suspending-missile-testing-and-closing-nuclear-site-trump-the-statesman/812829 "2018-04-20T23:09:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 34
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2018, 10:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-suspending-missile-testing-and-closing-nuclear-site-trump-the-statesman/812829/661 "2018-06-25T10:34:30Z")
> [@Chisquirrel](#): > > And I was told by someone that this would be the end of North Korea as a threat! Apparently we really _have_ always been at war with East Asia. ---
**Author:** ![voltaire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voltaire/32/313_2.png) [@voltaire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/voltaire)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2018, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-suspending-missile-testing-and-closing-nuclear-site-trump-the-statesman/812829/662 "2018-06-25T21:46:49Z")
Thought I’d highlight some interesting excerpts from [an interview with Mike Pompeo](https://www.state.gov/secretary/remarks/2018/06/283080.htm) I had heard pieces of immediately before the Singapore summit, but finally got around to reviewing in full.\*Our objective for the summit is very clear: We want to achieve a fundamentally different strategic relationship between our two countries. We are – we believe it’s important to (inaudible) completely denuclearize North Korea. \* \* In exchange for that, we’re prepared to do things that provide them the security assurances that they need and the warmer political relationship that they need as well. We’re hoping to make just as much progress on that as we can during the summit, and we believe that the two leaders sitting down together offers the world a great opportunity. \* _ **\** _ Chairman Kim’s got to make a big strategic decision. He has historically believed that his nuclear program provided security for his country, and to shift that to believe that security will come from a good relationship with the United States and the world is a big shift. We’re very hopeful that he’ll see it the way our President does. Our President is firmly prepared to make sure that Chairman Kim and the North Korean people will live in (inaudible) and with the security assurances that they are demanding. \*\*\* \\*\*\* - For North Korea to have the security assurances it needs, it needs to know that it has an economic – economically viable path forward. It has to know that its people can eat and that they can have the wealth that the North Korean people so richly deserve. So these are very closely linked issues; it’s difficult to separate them out. **And so not only Japan, but South Korea, China** – I imagine many nations will want to participate in the North Korean economy if we are successful in Singapore. - Pretty clear what the supposed roadmap is. Turn down the military heat to a simmer (mostly in ways that allows the US to scale down military expenditures and deployments, natch) and dangle economic inducements offered by SK, Japan & China (not US, natch), hoping that the prospect of all those will convince NK to disarm _as a prerequisite_ to begin receiving those inducements. The obvious sticking point will be when Kim starts making small gestures towards disarmament, but will be hesitant to go full CVID, with all that entails. It will then become a long, drawn-out game to see how many inducements they can get upfront, before full CVID is achieved. It could work, but the timetable is unlikely to be to Trump’s liking. I’d be surprised if full, credible CVID is achieved within Trump’s lifetime with that kind of approach. It’s basically setup to encourage delaying tactics and foot-dragging, until one or more of the parties has had enough. Still preferable to the prior state of affairs, I guess… ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2018, 7:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-suspending-missile-testing-and-closing-nuclear-site-trump-the-statesman/812829/663 "2018-06-26T07:13:02Z")
For it to work, North Korea would have to trust the USA. Who trusts the USA right now? ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2018, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-suspending-missile-testing-and-closing-nuclear-site-trump-the-statesman/812829/664 "2018-06-27T14:01:51Z")
From _Time_ magazine (and [a bunch of other news sites](https://news.google.com/search?q=satellite%20korea&hl=en-US&gl=US&ceid=US%3Aen)): [Satellite Images Show North Korea Making ‘Rapid’ Upgrades to Nuclear Facility](http://time.com/5323254/north-korea-nuclear-upgrade/) > [@](#): > > North Korea has continued to make “rapid” infrastructure improvements at a nuclear research facility despite leader Kim Jong Un’s recent pledge to “work toward complete denuclearization” of the Korean peninsula, satellite images show. I for one am shocked, shocked that 1. There could be any hint of bad faith or double-dealing on the part of North Korea with respect to its nuclear program, and 2. That Donald Trump could possibly have made a bad deal. Shocked, I tell you! ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2018, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-suspending-missile-testing-and-closing-nuclear-site-trump-the-statesman/812829/665 "2018-06-27T14:19:19Z")
> [@MEBuckner](#): > > From _Time_ magazine (and [a bunch of other news sites](https://news.google.com/search?q=satellite%20korea&hl=en-US&gl=US&ceid=US%3Aen)): [Satellite Images Show North Korea Making ‘Rapid’ Upgrades to Nuclear Facility](http://time.com/5323254/north-korea-nuclear-upgrade/) > > I for one am shocked, shocked that > > 1. There could be any hint of bad faith or double-dealing on the part of North Korea with respect to its nuclear program, and > 2. That Donald Trump could possibly have made a bad deal. > > Shocked, I tell you! Assuming the news is true, I’m not sure Trump made a bad deal. All he got from North Korea were empty promises, but all he gave them was a photo op. If anyone got conned, it’s the people who support Trump. They sung his praises over the “deal” with Kim, and, because of misplaced loyalty, will have that much more trouble walking it back. ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2018, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-suspending-missile-testing-and-closing-nuclear-site-trump-the-statesman/812829/666 "2018-06-27T14:22:42Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > Assuming the news is true, I’m not sure Trump made a bad deal. All he got from North Korea were empty promises, but all he gave them was a photo op. > > If anyone got conned, it’s the people who support Trump. They sung his praises over the “deal” with Kim, and, because of misplaced loyalty, will have that much more trouble walking it back. Well, he also gave Kim no more military exercises with SK. That’s a pretty big give to NK. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2018, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-suspending-missile-testing-and-closing-nuclear-site-trump-the-statesman/812829/667 "2018-06-27T14:32:32Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > Assuming the news is true, I’m not sure Trump made a bad deal. All he got from North Korea were empty promises, but all he gave them was a photo op. This is woefully incorrect; it was much more than just a photo op: it was credibility on the world stage and being treated as an equal by the most powerful man in the world. > [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > If anyone got conned, it’s the people who support Trump. They sung his praises over the “deal” with Kim, and, because of misplaced loyalty, will have that much more trouble walking it back. They won’t walk it back; they’ll just ignore it or label it fake news. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2018, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-suspending-missile-testing-and-closing-nuclear-site-trump-the-statesman/812829/668 "2018-06-27T14:55:51Z")
> [@Grrr](#): > > Well, he also gave Kim no more military exercises with SK. That’s a pretty big give to NK. Surely it would not be difficult to begin exercises again. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2018, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-suspending-missile-testing-and-closing-nuclear-site-trump-the-statesman/812829/669 "2018-06-27T15:07:41Z")
> [@Grrr](#): > > Well, he also gave Kim no more military exercises with SK. That’s a pretty big give to NK. Yeah, I forgot about that. Still, those exercises could be restarted almost as easily as NK restarting work on its reactor. Donald’s promises and signature don’t mean any more than Kim Jong-un’s. > [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > This is woefully incorrect; it was much more than just a photo op: it was credibility on the world stage and being treated as an equal by the most powerful man in the world. The Kim dynasty has been ruling North Korea for 60 years, and everybody knows it. The idea that meeting with Trump somehow makes them more legitimate doesn’t make much sense to me. And Trump may be President of the U.S., but he’s still a laughing stock. North Korean leaders have been trying to meet with a president for decades and the only one who’d do it was Trump? If that’s their idea of credibility, they’re almost as big a laughing stock as he is. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2018, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-suspending-missile-testing-and-closing-nuclear-site-trump-the-statesman/812829/670 "2018-06-27T15:37:52Z")
Perhaps this will all be resolved when Il Douche meets with Putin for his performance review. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2018, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-suspending-missile-testing-and-closing-nuclear-site-trump-the-statesman/812829/671 "2018-06-27T15:45:22Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > The Kim dynasty has been ruling North Korea for 60 years, and everybody knows it. The idea that meeting with Trump somehow makes them more legitimate doesn’t make much sense to me. Not legitimate in the sense of his being ruler of NK; of course he is. The legitimacy he gains is as a participant on the world stage, as an equal rather than a pariah. That’s not something the Kim regime has ever experienced. His meeting with Trump conveyed a message that Kim is just as worthy of respect as any other world leader, despite the way he chooses to run his nation. Not saying that’s an inherently good or bad thing, but it definitely is a _new_ thing. > [@](#): > > And Trump may be President of the U.S., but he’s still a laughing stock. North Korean leaders have been trying to meet with a president for decades and the only one who’d do it was Trump? If that’s their idea of credibility, they’re almost as big a laughing stock as he is. I think you’re underestimating the situation. He’s \*personally \*a laughing stock, but the US still isn’t, economically or politically, and he’s making a statement on behalf of the US. That’s powerful. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2018, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-suspending-missile-testing-and-closing-nuclear-site-trump-the-statesman/812829/672 "2018-06-27T15:51:06Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > Assuming the news is true, I’m not sure Trump made a bad deal. All he got from North Korea were empty promises, but all he gave them was a photo op. > [@Grrr](#): > > Well, he also gave Kim no more military exercises with SK. That’s a pretty big give to NK. Tru dat. Plus he gave Kim the meeting itself, a meeting between heads of state that NK has desired for decades. And he’s totally ignored NK’s horrendous human rights record. (No surprise, Trump _admires_ thugs, but still, it’s a gift.) ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2018, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-suspending-missile-testing-and-closing-nuclear-site-trump-the-statesman/812829/673 "2018-06-27T19:23:31Z")
> [@andros](#): > > I think you’re underestimating the situation. He’s \*personally \*a laughing stock, but the US still isn’t, economically or politically, and he’s making a statement on behalf of the US. That’s powerful. Despite the fact that Trump had all the trappings of the US behind him, this was still a _personal_ decision by Trump to have the meeting, and it reflects almost entirely on him. If the US re-elects Trump, and I deeply hope we do not, or someone else who continues his policies, then this may be seen to be a true shift in the US policy toward North Korea. For the moment, it’s on Trump; he personally crowed about the summit’s success, he can personally take credit for its failure. As for North Korea, there’s enough known about their abysmal human rights record, their economic torpidity, and their military posturing for people to make up their own minds about the regime there. Those things are too much of a stain for a few hours with the US President to wash away. TL;DR: The summit in Singapore lowered Trump more than it raised Kim. It may be seen to lower the US, too, depending on what happens in the future. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2018, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-suspending-missile-testing-and-closing-nuclear-site-trump-the-statesman/812829/674 "2018-06-27T19:30:46Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > As for North Korea, there’s enough known about their abysmal human rights record, their economic torpidity, and their military posturing for people to make up their own minds about the regime there. Those things are too much of a stain for a few hours with the US President to wash away. The level of trust in humanity present in this post is almost too much to bear; were you not paying attention to the fact that the American people, one of the wealthiest and best educated societies that has ever existed on this planet, recently elected Donald Trump to lead them, despite decades of known lies, bad deals and just plain being a jackass? Why would you trust people to come to the “right” conclusions and do the right thing now? ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2018, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-suspending-missile-testing-and-closing-nuclear-site-trump-the-statesman/812829/675 "2018-06-27T19:37:25Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > The level of trust in humanity present in this post is almost too much to bear; were you not paying attention to the fact that the American people, one of the wealthiest and best educated societies that has ever existed on this planet, recently elected Donald Trump to lead them, despite decades of known lies, bad deals and just plain being a jackass? > > Why would you trust people to come to the “right” conclusions and do the right thing now? I don’t necessarily trust people to do the right thing always (although I’m more optimistic than you sound). Maybe some people will start buying secure, high-rise condos in North Korea as a tax haven, and so they can look out the window at the starving masses while stuffing their faces. But whatever people decide to do, it will be based on the totality of what is known about North Korea, of which the meeting with Trump is but a blip. ---
**Author:** ![Toxgoddess](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Toxgoddess](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Toxgoddess)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2018, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-suspending-missile-testing-and-closing-nuclear-site-trump-the-statesman/812829/676 "2018-06-30T13:52:22Z")
Dunno about the “best educated” part. Years of school, maybe. And fantastic advanced education for those who can afford it. Pretty close to full adult functional literacy. But ability to think critically, appreciation of history, knowledge of other cultures and understanding of important worldwide events? Not so much. We have lots of superhero movies though. We may be the best entertained. ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2018, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-suspending-missile-testing-and-closing-nuclear-site-trump-the-statesman/812829/677 "2018-07-01T02:51:58Z")
Trump the “statesman” got jackshit from North Korea. He even lied about getting the remains of US soldiers killed in the Korean war returned. > [@The Liar](#): > > We got back our great fallen heroes, the remains, in fact today already 200 have been sent back [Yeah, that hasn’t happened.](http://www.newsweek.com/north-korea-still-has-not-returned-us-soldiers-remains-says-pompeo-1000928) NK got legitimacy, the US got nothing but vague platitudes. The OP should be deeply fucking embarrassed by this ridiculous cheerleader thread. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2018, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-suspending-missile-testing-and-closing-nuclear-site-trump-the-statesman/812829/678 "2018-07-01T02:56:54Z")
Should be. Won’t be. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2018, 11:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-suspending-missile-testing-and-closing-nuclear-site-trump-the-statesman/812829/679 "2018-07-01T11:46:14Z")
I’m pretty sure the OP hasn’t posted to this thread since well _before_ the 'summit", actually. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2018, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-suspending-missile-testing-and-closing-nuclear-site-trump-the-statesman/812829/680 "2018-07-01T13:50:03Z")
38 North reporting [Infrastructure Improvements at North Korea’s Yongbyon Nuclear Research Facility](https://www.38north.org/2018/06/yongbyon062618/) observed 21 Jun 2018 via satellite. You may recall that’s the place where they make all the weapons-grade plutonium. So apparently denuclearization somehow involves ramping up production capacity of plutonium. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-suspending-missile-testing-and-closing-nuclear-site-trump-the-statesman/812829.md?page=33) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-suspending-missile-testing-and-closing-nuclear-site-trump-the-statesman/812829.md?page=35)