# North Korea tries--and fails--to nuke Hawaii. How do you want the US to respond? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 28, 2013, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-tries-and-fails-to-nuke-hawaii-how-do-you-want-the-us-to-respond/654204 "2013-03-28T19:21:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Eugene\_of\_Sandwich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c37758/32.png) [@Eugene\_of\_Sandwich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eugene_of_Sandwich)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2013, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-tries-and-fails-to-nuke-hawaii-how-do-you-want-the-us-to-respond/654204/121 "2013-03-31T14:06:36Z")
Oops. I’m a US citizen. Hate it when that happens. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Saraya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b3f665/32.png) [@Saraya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saraya)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2013, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-tries-and-fails-to-nuke-hawaii-how-do-you-want-the-us-to-respond/654204/122 "2013-03-31T22:47:45Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Imagine that everybody’s favorite sociopathic national leader\*, deciding that he’s tired of mere posturing, attempts to recreate Hiroshima. Proclaiming that this is the first step in its great war against the west, North Korea launches a nuclear missile at Honolulu. But the attack fails. Maybe the missile’s guidance system is inadequate, and it explodes short of the target and far from any inhabited area; maybe the warhead is a dud; maybe the Navy[sup]†[/sup] manages to shoot it down. The reason for the failure doesn’t really matter[sup]‡[/sup]; all that matters is that the latest Kim has threatened and attempted to reduce a US city to ashes. > > How do you want the American\*\* government[sup]††[/sup]react? > > [sup]\* [/sup]Persons who do not think think this is a fair description of Kim Jong Un should talk to their doctors about changing their meds. Or argue their point in the thread. > [sup]†[/sup]Yes, _Navy_. If Athena had intended men to fly, she would have given Odysseus talaria. And don’t get me started on the Army. Buncha wankers. Give the Army’s entire budget to the Marines, I say. Disagree? Make your point in the thread. > [sup]‡ [/sup]Or does it? I guess it might. That’s something else we can talk about that in the thread, I guess. > [sup]\*\* [/sup]Why the American government and not the international community, you ask? You must be high, I answer. Anyway, if you think this should be an international decision, talk about it in the thread. > [sup]†† [/sup]Anybody want cobbler? I feel like making cobbler. I’m thinking peach but I could be persuaded otherwise.. Actually the reason it failed IS relevant, because it will fail in that thirty seconds after it launches it will be shot down. North Korea will never get an airborne missile to the United States … E V E R America can just lean back and dare Kim, hell they can antagonize him, which is what I’d do for entertainment because Kim is old school, he’s thinking inside the box e.g. Nuke \> Infiltrate by sea and with the exception of maybe Russia, no one will breach American shores in that manner. The other problem for Kim, like Manila mentioned above, is that should America retaliate with their own strikes, it wouldn’t just happen once, they’d go on to decimate for days to make an example out of him. ---
**Author:** ![SCAdian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scadian/32/3292_2.png) [@SCAdian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SCAdian)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2013, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-tries-and-fails-to-nuke-hawaii-how-do-you-want-the-us-to-respond/654204/123 "2013-03-31T23:33:00Z")
Cherry cobbler is good, too… ---
**Author:** ![Glazer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a88e57/32.png) [@Glazer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Glazer)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2013, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-tries-and-fails-to-nuke-hawaii-how-do-you-want-the-us-to-respond/654204/124 "2013-04-01T00:15:25Z")
If the North ever jumps we should hit the artillery fields outside of Seoul with every MOAB, fuel air bomb, cluster bomb and area denial weapon we have. Use radar tracking to destroy every gun that opens fire. Take out any anti-air that exist and any air force in the air or on the ground. Destroy any Army or Naval units that move. Follow up with any commo or command that can be identified. Have Southern ground forces advance to identify any pockets of resistance, accept Northern forces surrender and distribute aid to civilians. ---
**Author:** ![Mosier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ea924/32.png) [@Mosier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mosier)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2013, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-tries-and-fails-to-nuke-hawaii-how-do-you-want-the-us-to-respond/654204/125 "2013-04-01T02:45:01Z")
The best response to an attempted nuclear attack is full scale nuclear retaliation. There can be no doubt that if anyone, _anyone_ launches a preemptive nuclear attack, they will be completely annihilated. The best version of humanity would have no nuclear weapons at all. Since we don’t have that (yet), we have to make sure nobody ever thinks of nuclear war from a perspective of “risk vs. reward.” There can be no punishment or “teaching a lesson” involved. The consequence for preemptive use of nuclear weapons must be complete, utter erasure from existence, both for yourself and your ideology. ---
**Author:** ![Mosier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ea924/32.png) [@Mosier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mosier)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2013, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-tries-and-fails-to-nuke-hawaii-how-do-you-want-the-us-to-respond/654204/126 "2013-04-01T02:54:37Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > The scope of nuclear war–the sheer destructive power and number of deaths that can result from a single decision–is literally unimaginable. Seeking to increase that scope as an act of vengence is not justifiable by any but the most perverted standard of ethics or morality. > > Stranger Not an act of vengeance. It’s absolutely reasonable game theory, even. Surely you can at least acknowledge the line of reasoning that says “make the consequences of launching a nuclear first-strike impossible to tolerate” isn’t indicative of a perverted standard of ethics or morality. You don’t win the argument just by calling your opponent the badguy and yourself the goodguy. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2013, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-tries-and-fails-to-nuke-hawaii-how-do-you-want-the-us-to-respond/654204/127 "2013-04-01T03:17:37Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > If North Korea launches a nuke at anyone, whether it’s successful or not, a nuclear response isn’t an option. > > A nuclear response is _obligatory_. > > To not respond to a nuclear attack in kind would be to send a message to everyone in the world with ill intentions against the US that you can nuke us without fear of retaliation. That’s pretty much my thinking, except with one addtion: An OVERWHELMING nuclear response is obligatory. Not a dinky nuke on some minor non-Pyongyang city, not a demonstration somewhere uninhabited, but instead take a page from the Romans, and nuke every city above a certain size in North Korea. (what **Mosier** said) Part of me thinks we should do it on some time interval- announce that we’re going to nuke another city on 12 hour intervals, and nuke Pyongyang last. That would definitely get the point across to everyone. ---
**Author:** ![usedtobe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ec9cab/32.png) [@usedtobe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/usedtobe)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2013, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-tries-and-fails-to-nuke-hawaii-how-do-you-want-the-us-to-respond/654204/128 "2013-04-01T03:42:30Z")
If North Korea were an island 10,000 miles from the nearest living person, yes, I’d be the first to incinerate every square millimeter. It isn’t - please review your maps - it adjoins both the People’s Republic of China and Russia - If you’re ready to kill 24 million people over a dud, you had better hope more rational minds prevail in Beijing and Moscow when you accidently kill a few million Chinese and a couple of 100,000 Russians. Their very advanced, well-targeted missiles will NOT be duds. The US has the firepower to kill every living person several times over - without going nuclear. High explosives do not create lethal radiation in the stratosphere where prevailing winds will carry it around the world or real close. Why do those who want to irradiate the world for a few decades, render agriculture impossible over thousands of square miles insist on mushrooms? A 30-year old with a constant threat of a coup can be excused for making “I’m going to nuke the monster which is keeping you impoverished” noises; well-fed Americans with nothing on the line showing such irresponsibility cannot be excused. Grow up. You’re dealing with a country which actually published a pic of the Respected Leader reviewing the Air Force - the fighters in the pic were MiG-15s - the 1950 era Soviet which was no match for the F-4. For reference: the F-4 Phantom was the world’s FIRST production supersonic fighter. Most leaders review their air forces with a fly-by - even if those planes were operational, they couldn’t afford the fuel just for a propaganda shot. AGAIN: We can assure the complete destruction of the DPRK within a week with 1970’s technology. Why do you insist we MUST destroy every living peasant and invite nuclear retaliation? ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2013, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-tries-and-fails-to-nuke-hawaii-how-do-you-want-the-us-to-respond/654204/129 "2013-04-01T03:46:03Z")
Thread: North Korea _ **tries** _–and fails–to nuke Hawaii. _I’m a US citizen NOT living in Hawaii, and I want Pyongyang glowing in the dark by sundown_. In your scenario, North Korea actually “tried” to nuke the U.S… They failed but not for lack of trying. How many more chances should they get before they can succeed? None, zip, zero. A ground war won’t stop the North Koreans from launching another nuke. An air war won’t stop the North Koreans from launching another nuke. Turning the North Korean launch sites, Pyongyang, and every other place their decision makers “could call for a nuclear launch from” into radioactive glass (or whatever happens) is the best way to end North Korea’s nuclear attacks. No 2nd chances for a nuke attack. ---
**Author:** ![Waxwinged](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c2a13f/32.png) [@Waxwinged](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waxwinged)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2013, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-tries-and-fails-to-nuke-hawaii-how-do-you-want-the-us-to-respond/654204/130 "2013-04-01T03:48:33Z")
I’m curious: is there any particular reason why UN, or some higher-up Chinese/American officials cannot meet up with the higher-ups in NK government and explain to them that the rest of the world is essentially laughing at their nuke-related posturing…? ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2013, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-tries-and-fails-to-nuke-hawaii-how-do-you-want-the-us-to-respond/654204/131 "2013-04-01T04:08:15Z")
TIL: A lot of people here think North Koreans are sub-humans whose lives have no value. Fucking sickos. ---
**Author:** ![usedtobe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ec9cab/32.png) [@usedtobe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/usedtobe)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2013, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-tries-and-fails-to-nuke-hawaii-how-do-you-want-the-us-to-respond/654204/132 "2013-04-01T04:12:13Z")
> [@Waxwinged](#): > > I’m curious: is there any particular reason why UN, or some higher-up Chinese/American officials cannot meet up with the higher-ups in NK government and explain to them that the rest of the world is essentially laughing at their nuke-related posturing..? They do have access to the web (a product of the US Department of Defense); presumably they follow what is said by whom and have seen the the “they’re not even close to being able” and making fun of their map of how they are going to send the missiles they don’t have straight east, not using the polar route which is the only route by which they could get to Alaska - which is much closer than California. ---
**Author:** ![usedtobe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ec9cab/32.png) [@usedtobe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/usedtobe)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2013, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-tries-and-fails-to-nuke-hawaii-how-do-you-want-the-us-to-respond/654204/133 "2013-04-01T04:23:39Z")
Great - now we have the friggin’ Pope asking people to act like grown ups. First, it was China asking for rational behavior - not surprising Then Russia - that’s right, mister nice guy Putin - chiming in that all parties should maybe grow up. Now the Pope. What does the US do? Send in F-22’s to join the demonstration. At least these were already in the area (Japan). Respected Leader issued a statement that "we don’t need the outside world. We can improve our economy all by ourselves. And grow our nuke arsenal. And no, out nukes are NOT bargaining chips, no negotiations! Can’t somebody in the west pick up a damned phone before some idiot trips one of these wires everybody is busy stringing? China opened via ping-pong (remember?) Kim invited basketball players. The fact that he couldn’t get the entire Globetrotters says the State Department was not interested in talking. At some point, somebody needs to start acting like a grown-up. You want to nuke their missile sites? Look where those are. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2013, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-tries-and-fails-to-nuke-hawaii-how-do-you-want-the-us-to-respond/654204/134 "2013-04-01T04:49:25Z")
> [@Mosier](#): > > Not an act of vengeance. It’s absolutely reasonable game theory, even. Surely you can at least acknowledge the line of reasoning that says “make the consequences of launching a nuclear first-strike impossible to tolerate” isn’t indicative of a perverted standard of ethics or morality. Let’s look at this in terms of game theory, but as part of the real world. Someone up thread said that North Korea should be nuked so that the UK, among others, would know to never use nuclear weapons against the USA. That’s just plain silly. The concept of MAD was necessary when there was a real, powerful enemy to worry about. One which in the early post-WWII days could actually match or surpass the US in raw military strength and then later possessed enough nuclear warheads to lay waste to the entire United States. Of the known nuclear powers, the UK and France are fellow members of NATO (with France’s well-known issues) and Israel is a close ally. Despite Romney’s assertions, Russia is not a treat to the US and has not reason to pick a fight it cannot win. China makes loud sounds about wanting to be the 500 lb. guerrilla in Asia, but it knows it’s not a match for the US. India? Get serious. No reason for them to try to challenge us. Pakistan? Not stable, but again, not a threat. The countries and groups we have to worry about are ones who don’t have bombs yet. Would Iran really decide one day that they will risk everything just because the US used it’s overwhelming conventional might to decapitate North Korea? And unnamed terrorists? They don’t care of some country was sent back into the stone age. ---
**Author:** ![that\_darn\_cat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/59ef9b/32.png) [@that\_darn\_cat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/that_darn_cat)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2013, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-tries-and-fails-to-nuke-hawaii-how-do-you-want-the-us-to-respond/654204/135 "2013-04-01T04:55:36Z")
Seems unlikely, but the US dropping nukes on anyone is unthinkable short of GTNW. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2013, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-tries-and-fails-to-nuke-hawaii-how-do-you-want-the-us-to-respond/654204/136 "2013-04-01T05:09:54Z")
> [@BlankSlate](#): > > TIL: A lot of people here think North Koreans are sub-humans whose lives have no value. > > Fucking sickos. For fucks sake, get over yourself. No one has said anything like that. You act like people said “we should just slaughter all of the North Koreans now, wipe them from the face of the Earth just because of who they are” They would be the citizens of a country that launched a nuclear attack upon the United States. They would die in a retaliatory strike meant to prevent a country that has proven itself dangerous enough to conduct such a strike from being able to inflict anymore harm. Let me ask you this, if you think we’re all motivated by the subhuman nature of the north Koreans, then do you think that if another country launched a nuclear attack on us - Pakistan, Iran, hell, Great Britain, that we would not advocate nuclear retaliation against them? Because our motivation here is to exterminate the subhuman North Koreans, rather than respond to a nuclear attack on our country, right? You are ridiculous. ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2013, 6:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-tries-and-fails-to-nuke-hawaii-how-do-you-want-the-us-to-respond/654204/137 "2013-04-01T06:23:48Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > Let me ask you this, if you think we’re all motivated by the subhuman nature of the north Koreans, then do you think that if another country launched a nuclear attack on us - Pakistan, Iran, hell, **Great Britain** , that we would not advocate nuclear retaliation against them? In the exact same circumstances, with the exact same capabilities, no way in hell you’d be advocating the same response to a European nation. You’re predictable. ---
**Author:** ![Gagundathar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a183cd/32.png) [@Gagundathar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gagundathar)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2013, 6:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-tries-and-fails-to-nuke-hawaii-how-do-you-want-the-us-to-respond/654204/138 "2013-04-01T06:33:26Z")
I advocate the use of conventional weapons in such a scenario. Nuclear weapons are a double-edged sword. Fallout is real. A simple analysis using a globe or atlas will show where the results of such an action will cause unintended casualties. Remember, after all is said and done, we all share the same global ecosystem. ---
**Author:** ![usedtobe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ec9cab/32.png) [@usedtobe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/usedtobe)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2013, 7:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-tries-and-fails-to-nuke-hawaii-how-do-you-want-the-us-to-respond/654204/139 "2013-04-01T07:31:44Z")
I think we are dealing with people who think “nuclear = big, impressive (penis)”. Anyone on the “Nuke back to the Stone Age” (gawd, I’d hadn’t heard that since Nixon) care to get specific? What weapon detonating where? Or just kilo/mega tonnage at either lat/long or nearest population center? Keep in mind there are huge hard-stone mountains - either plaster all around them or destroy them (this plan, I gotta see) and take out everything in the area with the last warhead/bomb? ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2013, 9:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-tries-and-fails-to-nuke-hawaii-how-do-you-want-the-us-to-respond/654204/140 "2013-04-01T09:18:26Z")
The US is deploying Stealth Fighters to the region. South Korea raising defenses. [http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/04/01/us-korea-north-idUSBRE93002620130401](http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/04/01/us-korea-north-idUSBRE93002620130401) The balloon may go up. It’s beginning to look a lot like [del]Xmas[/del] War. Hold on tight, kiddos, this one is gonna get ugly. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-tries-and-fails-to-nuke-hawaii-how-do-you-want-the-us-to-respond/654204.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-tries-and-fails-to-nuke-hawaii-how-do-you-want-the-us-to-respond/654204.md?page=8)