# North Korea: What is Kim trying to do? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 9, 2006, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-what-is-kim-trying-to-do/363707 "2006-07-09T05:22:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Linty\_Fresh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Linty\_Fresh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Linty_Fresh)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2006, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-what-is-kim-trying-to-do/363707/21 "2006-07-09T22:15:52Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] So what? How can any society have any cultural “tradition” that is, in practical effect, any older than its oldest living member? Why would it make any practical difference whether such a tradition is 3,000 years old or 100 years old? What’s keeping the Confucian tradition alive? [/QUOTE] Think of America’s Judeo-Christian belief system and everything in our culture, politics, and world outlook it’s inspired for better or worse merely over the past 200 years. Is _that_ going away anytime soon? And that’s in a country with plenty of Muslims, Buddhists, atheists, Scientologists, etc. etc. NK’s population is much more homogenous and its religious roots are far deeper than ours. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2006, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-what-is-kim-trying-to-do/363707/22 "2006-07-09T22:32:48Z")
[QUOTE=Linty Fresh] Think of America’s Judeo-Christian belief system and everything in our culture, politics, and world outlook it’s inspired for better or worse merely over the past 200 years. Is _that_ going away anytime soon? [/QUOTE] No . . . but we have never yet fallen under an absolute government that **tried.** (Despite Pat Robertson’s protestations to the contrary. :rolleyes: ) ---
**Author:** ![DonutSprinkle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/0ea827/32.png) [@DonutSprinkle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DonutSprinkle)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2006, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-what-is-kim-trying-to-do/363707/23 "2006-07-09T23:23:17Z")
[QUOTE=silenus] I’m surprised the Chinese haven’t taken him out yet. They could get away with it without a single word being said by any other country. What can they possibly gain by continuing to prop up this regime? It’s becoming a global embarassment and costing them standing in the international commnity, not to mention all that aid flushed down the tubes. I don’t think anyone would object to even a pony nuke going off in downtown Pyongyang. Anything to get rid of that nutball. [/QUOTE] It has been opined that the Chinese want North Korea to be around simply to occupy the United States’ resources (diplomatic, economic, etc.) The Chinese are in an economic world war, and we are one of their enemies. However, if North Korea ever became a major nuisance to _China_, then things might change. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2006, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-what-is-kim-trying-to-do/363707/24 "2006-07-09T23:30:06Z")
[QUOTE=DonutSprinkle] It has been opined that the Chinese want North Korea to be around simply to occupy the United States’ resources (diplomatic, economic, etc.) [/QUOTE] From a Chinese POV, that actually makes sense. But they might find themselves paying a high price for it down the road. ---
**Author:** ![Linty\_Fresh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Linty\_Fresh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Linty_Fresh)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2006, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-what-is-kim-trying-to-do/363707/25 "2006-07-09T23:35:17Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] From a Chinese POV, that actually makes sense. But they might find themselves paying a high price for it down the road. [/QUOTE] True . . . Very true. Then again, when it comes to North Korea, nothing’s really cheap. Everyone’s going to have to pay a really high price over this down the road, economically, diplomatically, and–if all else fails–militarily. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2006, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-what-is-kim-trying-to-do/363707/26 "2006-07-10T00:12:10Z")
Could someone describe a tad what’s in that website? It’s, of course, blocked here. ---
**Author:** ![Garfield226](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Garfield226](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Garfield226)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2006, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-what-is-kim-trying-to-do/363707/27 "2006-07-10T00:16:52Z")
[QUOTE=Monty] Could someone describe a tad what’s in that website? It’s, of course, blocked here. [/QUOTE] I’d be happy to…which one? ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Clam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3bc359/32.png) [@Happy\_Clam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Clam)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2006, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-what-is-kim-trying-to-do/363707/28 "2006-07-10T00:20:35Z")
[QUOTE=Garfield226] I’d be happy to…which one? [/QUOTE] The North Korean one. I can’t help- I gave up after it spent 1/2 an hour loading and still was doing nothing. Actually, if you think about it, that website is the most perfect possible representation of the NK government. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2006, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-what-is-kim-trying-to-do/363707/29 "2006-07-10T00:23:38Z")
[QUOTE=jjimm] A quick perusal of North Korea’s tragi-comic [one and only website](http://www.korea-dpr.com/) is to me indicative of a top-down divorce from that which we in the rest of the world feel is ‘normality’. [/QUOTE] Kim’s One-And-Only Website appears to be out of service. Perhaps it operates only on the Dear Leader’s Birthday? ---
**Author:** ![Garfield226](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Garfield226](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Garfield226)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2006, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-what-is-kim-trying-to-do/363707/30 "2006-07-10T00:24:06Z")
Ah ha. Well if it is indeed the NK one, it’s not loading for me either. Google’s cache didn’t load, but the cached text only revealed a bunch of links. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2006, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-what-is-kim-trying-to-do/363707/31 "2006-07-10T00:28:11Z")
Interesting. From Whois: > [@](#): > > Registration Service Provided By: Dina Dominios > Contact: [rbouso@gestiondecuenta.com](mailto:rbouso@gestiondecuenta.com) > > Domain name: [korea-dpr.com](http://korea-dpr.com) > > Administrative Contact: > NA > NA NA ([vientian@hotmail.com](mailto:vientian@hotmail.com)) > NA > Fax: > NA > NA, > US > > Technical Contact: > NA > NA NA ([salva@digival.es](mailto:salva@digival.es)) > > Fax: > NA > NA, > US > > Registrant Contact: > Dina Dominios > Dinahosting sl ([rbouso@gestiondecuenta.com](mailto:rbouso@gestiondecuenta.com)) > +34.981552254 > Fax: +34.981577449 > Orfas 27 > Santiago de Compostela, A CORUNHA 15703 > ES > > Status: Locked > > Name Servers: > [ns.dinahosting.com](http://ns.dinahosting.com) > [ns2.dinahosting.com](http://ns2.dinahosting.com) > [ns3.dinahosting.com](http://ns3.dinahosting.com) > [ns4.dinahosting.com](http://ns4.dinahosting.com) > > Creation date: 08 Aug 2000 03:51:24 > Expiration date: 08 Aug 2007 03:51:24 ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2006, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-what-is-kim-trying-to-do/363707/32 "2006-07-10T00:38:47Z")
[QUOTE=Tapioca Dextrin] What Kim probably wants, above all else, is respect. [/QUOTE] That, and a train set. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2006, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-what-is-kim-trying-to-do/363707/33 "2006-07-10T00:42:03Z")
[QUOTE=Muffin] That, and a train set. [/QUOTE] Everyone else uses eBay, but since there’s no Internet in NK… ---
**Author:** ![ParentalAdvisory](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/53a042/32.png) [@ParentalAdvisory](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParentalAdvisory)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2006, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-what-is-kim-trying-to-do/363707/34 "2006-07-10T01:56:10Z")
[QUOTE=Sam Stone] History is full of stories of entire societies that were run to destruction by totalitarian leaders. When you can disarm the people, terrorize them into submission, and keep them impoverished, they becomes literally helpless. [/QUOTE] Totalitarian leaders. Almost there… Disarming the people. Check. Terrorize them into submission (CNN, MSNBC, FOX, the White House). Check. Impoverished societies. Check. Wait a minute, that sounds like the USA… What’s going to become of us? :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Garfield226](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Garfield226](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Garfield226)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2006, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-what-is-kim-trying-to-do/363707/35 "2006-07-10T01:58:54Z")
[QUOTE=ParentalAdvisory] Disarming the people. Check. [/QUOTE] If you’d like to be armed, feel free to move out of Cook County. The North Korean people don’t have that option, to my knowledge. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2006, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-what-is-kim-trying-to-do/363707/36 "2006-07-10T02:02:01Z")
Actually, disarming the people is not even strictly necessary. Just ask Saddam Hussein. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2006, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-what-is-kim-trying-to-do/363707/37 "2006-07-10T03:53:16Z")
[QUOTE=ParentalAdvisory] Totalitarian leaders. Almost there… Disarming the people. Check. Terrorize them into submission (CNN, MSNBC, FOX, the White House). Check. Impoverished societies. Check. Wait a minute, that sounds like the USA… What’s going to become of us? :eek: [/QUOTE] I’m sure you’re saying this as a joke, but any even remote comparison of the United States to the kinds of countries I’m talking about is obscene. Watching CNN is not quite the same as watching your 12 year old daughter raped in front of you and your husband shot in the head and kicked into a mass grave in front of your family because you had the temerity to disrespect ‘Dear Leader’ within earshot of one of his stooges. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2006, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-what-is-kim-trying-to-do/363707/38 "2006-07-10T04:05:11Z")
I have to agree with **Sam** : it’s important to put the North Koreas, Darfurs and Congos of the world in a separate category: you really don’t want to wake up as a citizen in one of these places. [QUOTE=Sam Stone] When dictatorships fall, they either crumble from within the ruling cadre, like the Soviet Union did, or they are overthrown by outside powers, like Germany, Japan, and Iraq. Spontaneous uprisings by the people rarely work against a truly brutal government, and when they do it usually happens in wealthier countries where the dictatorship is only partially in control and the people have significant resources at their disposal. [/QUOTE] Extended guerrilla war is a third option. (Meet the new boss…) Also, people-power has worked in middle income countries such as the Phillipines. But NK is not middle income. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2006, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-what-is-kim-trying-to-do/363707/39 "2006-07-10T06:17:59Z")
What is Kim trying to do? Gods know…I sure don’t. Before this I THOUGHT he was playing the mad megolomaniac despotic dictotor (well, I think he is all those things in real life, but I THOUGHT he was playing it up a bit for effect). But I can’t figure out why he would do something like this…there is no good angle for pissing off the Chinese this particular way, least not one I can see. So, the fall back position is…he really IS fucking crazy. :eek: And he has nukes! :eek: !! Gods, what a combination… [QUOTE=ParentalAdvisory] I’m surprised that a rebellion hasn’t already occurred. How can that many people tolerate so much shit for so long is beyond me. [/QUOTE] How would they? Unless the coup comes from the military there is zero chance of an uprising. Not only is NK heavily armed (considering its such a small country…and so damn poor due to the stupidity of its leaders), but a rather large percentage of its people are actually in the military. Also, the repression there is beyond belief…unless of course you are in the party or in the military…then you get special treatment (well, compared to the other poor slobs over there). Then there is a rather large secret police organization run by the state…oh, and the death camps/gulags (real ones.). Finally, the regular people over there have been systematically starved and brutalized for decades, with periodic famines killing off large numbers of people (in the millions if reports are to be believed). Given all that, and given the abject level of poverty for anyone who isn’t one of the ‘elite’, and the fact that the ‘elite’ are treated just enough better to garner their loyalty (and of course they are still watched by the goon squads, so why risk what you gots?), and finally given the absolute lack of weapons…how in hell would the population rid themselves of this maniac? We should have done the world a favor (though they wouldn’t have appreciated it 😛 ) and instead of invading Iraq we should have invaded NK and shot lil’ Kimmy on sight…like you would a rabid dog. -XT ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2006, 6:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-what-is-kim-trying-to-do/363707/40 "2006-07-10T06:44:19Z")
If we take as a given that he **is** crazy, then what? Would we actually unlimber the nuclear arsenal if he takes out Seoul? Tokyo, I can see. We would level any country that attacked Japan. But North Korea nuking South Korea? Would we bounce the rubble in Pyongyang, or try to take them out with conventional weapons? Would the Chinese save us the trouble and strike first? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-what-is-kim-trying-to-do/363707.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-what-is-kim-trying-to-do/363707.md?page=3)