# North Korea - Why aren't we focused on helping them? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 14, 2013, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-why-arent-we-focused-on-helping-them/663467 "2013-07-14T13:59:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![mr.jp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/48db29/32.png) [@mr.jp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mr.jp)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2013, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-why-arent-we-focused-on-helping-them/663467/1 "2013-07-14T13:59:36Z")
North Korea is a horrible dystopia. It is basically a slave state, ruled by a mad family. Except with slaves, the masters at least mostly feed them. With the propaganda, the concentration camps, etc, it is not incomparable to the dystopia presented in 1984. So why aren’t we focused on helping these poor people? Most people are for the American civil war, to protect the slaves. Most people are for the second world war, to protect the Jews and others. Why not a tiny war (compared with those) to save this enslaved population? Or perhaps an assassination or coup attempt. ---
**Author:** ![brickbacon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@brickbacon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brickbacon)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2013, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-why-arent-we-focused-on-helping-them/663467/2 "2013-07-14T14:16:28Z")
Because they have nuclear weapons and other weaponry they would use to destroy Seoul, Tokyo, and a handful of other nearby populous areas. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2013, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-why-arent-we-focused-on-helping-them/663467/3 "2013-07-14T14:16:42Z")
When nukes are in play, there’s no such thing as “tiny”. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2013, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-why-arent-we-focused-on-helping-them/663467/4 "2013-07-14T14:17:43Z")
The U.S. has recently tried saving nations from themselves in Afghanistan and Iraq. It didn’t turn out that well. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2013, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-why-arent-we-focused-on-helping-them/663467/5 "2013-07-14T14:18:32Z")
Wisconsin, New York and Vermont didn’t go to war against the Confederacy to end slavery they did it to preserve the Union. (Though the Confederacy totally went to war to preserve slavery.) In fact, when Lincoln issued the Emancipation Proclamation there were violent race riots in New York City with many African American victims because a lot of whites didn’t want to go to war to help blacks. As far as WWII goes, the United States didn’t declare war on Germany to assist the Jews. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2013, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-why-arent-we-focused-on-helping-them/663467/6 "2013-07-14T14:25:12Z")
> [@mr.jp](#): > > Most people are for the second world war, to protect the Jews and others. Not at the time they weren’t. They supported the war, but not for that reason. And North Korea has huge problems, like 25 million malnourished people who’ve had little contact with the outside world for two generations. It wouldn’t be a tiny undertaking. > [@](#): > > Or perhaps an assassination or coup attempt. We know very little about what goes on in the country’s leadership. It’d be very hard logistically and there’s no alternative ruler to support as far as I know. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2013, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-why-arent-we-focused-on-helping-them/663467/7 "2013-07-14T14:30:28Z")
What directly got the U.S. into WWII was having Germany declare war on _us_ (one of Hitler’s major blunders). You could look it up. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2013, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-why-arent-we-focused-on-helping-them/663467/8 "2013-07-14T14:35:54Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > What directly got the U.S. into WWII was having Germany declare war on _us_ (one of Hitler’s major blunders). > > You could look it up. I’m pretty sure most historians consider the bombing of Pearl Harbor as the primary reason the United States became directly involved in the war. Japan declares war on the United States, the United States declares war on Japan, Germany declares war on the United States and then the United State declares war on Germany. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2013, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-why-arent-we-focused-on-helping-them/663467/9 "2013-07-14T14:44:55Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > I’m pretty sure most historians consider the bombing of Pearl Harbor as the primary reason the United States became directly involved in the war. Japan declares war on the United States, the United States declares war on Japan, Germany declares war on the United States and then the United State declares war on Germany. Sorry, what I meant to say was “what directly got the U.S. into declaring war on Germany was Germany declaring war on us.” ---
**Author:** ![mr.jp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/48db29/32.png) [@mr.jp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mr.jp)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2013, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-why-arent-we-focused-on-helping-them/663467/10 "2013-07-14T14:47:53Z")
To clarify, Im not talking about the reasons there were at the time for doing the two mentioned wars. Im talking about why people today, morally, support them. And then asking, if people today morally support those two wars for those reasons, then why not support action against North Korea. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2013, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-why-arent-we-focused-on-helping-them/663467/11 "2013-07-14T14:56:16Z")
> [@mr.jp](#): > > And then asking, if people today morally support those two wars for those reasons, then why not support action against North Korea. Because it would involve the slaughter of enormous amounts of South Koreans and worldwide economic hardship when SK economically collapses due to its destroyed capital. ---
**Author:** ![mr.jp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/48db29/32.png) [@mr.jp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mr.jp)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2013, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-why-arent-we-focused-on-helping-them/663467/12 "2013-07-14T15:00:19Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Not at the time they weren’t. They supported the war, but not for that reason. And North Korea has huge problems, like 25 million malnourished people who’ve had little contact with the outside world for two generations. It wouldn’t be a tiny undertaking. > > We know very little about what goes on in the country’s leadership. It’d be very hard logistically and there’s no alternative ruler to support as far as I know. Im not saying it would be easy. It would require a lot of investment to either try and make a coup with an alternative leader, or to go to war with them. But sometimes you make a sacrifice to help other people, right? I think most peoplewould be appalled if it is said that we should just let the Jews die in the second world war (if that had been an option.) But what is the essential difference, really? ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2013, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-why-arent-we-focused-on-helping-them/663467/13 "2013-07-14T15:05:56Z")
> [@mr.jp](#): > > But sometimes you make a sacrifice to help other people, right? A lot of the sacrifice would be made by the people of Korea (both North and South), and not so much by the American people. Are you going to ask the Koreans whether they want to sacrifice millions of lives? (Note that South Korea has a democratically elected government: it should be pretty easy to find out if they want to make the sacrifice.) ---
**Author:** ![Bozuit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/edb3f5/32.png) [@Bozuit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bozuit)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2013, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-why-arent-we-focused-on-helping-them/663467/14 "2013-07-14T15:31:00Z")
I’m surprised no one has mentioned China yet. They’d go mental. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2013, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-why-arent-we-focused-on-helping-them/663467/15 "2013-07-14T15:36:10Z")
No shit. Add to that the fact that the overwhelming majority of Americans just don’t give a shit about North Korea in any fashion and you aren’t going to get a groundswell of support for anything but nuking them. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2013, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-why-arent-we-focused-on-helping-them/663467/16 "2013-07-14T15:41:27Z")
We’ve doing what we can without starting a war that will result in enornous loss of life, and mostly the lives of the people we’re trying to help. Our policy may not have been ideal, but it’s flaws are not the reason this situation exists, and short of war there isn’t much we can do. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2013, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-why-arent-we-focused-on-helping-them/663467/17 "2013-07-14T15:46:51Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > No shit. Add to that the fact that the overwhelming majority of Americans just don’t give a shit about North Korea in any fashion and you aren’t going to get a groundswell of support for anything but nuking them. Unlike the close ties we had with Vietnam, Iraq, Somalia and Grenada. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2013, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-why-arent-we-focused-on-helping-them/663467/18 "2013-07-14T15:48:47Z")
> [@mr.jp](#): > > But sometimes you make a sacrifice to help other people, right? Before hundreds of thousands to perhaps millions of innocent civilians are killed by a war that could escalate to the use of nuclear weapons, may I inquire what kind of sacrifices you have made to help other people? ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2013, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-why-arent-we-focused-on-helping-them/663467/19 "2013-07-14T15:48:50Z")
> [@mr.jp](#): > > Im not saying it would be easy. It would require a lot of investment to either try and make a coup with an alternative leader, or to go to war with them. But sometimes you make a sacrifice to help other people, right? The last time there was a Korean war the death toll was around 1.5 million people. Korean War II would have a much higher toll. Again, how many people are you willing to kill? How many people are you willing to watch die on CNN? We know the North Koreans have nuclear weapons now, do you want to see them used? > [@](#): > > I think most peoplewould be appalled if it is said that we should just let the Jews die in the second world war (if that had been an option.) But what is the essential difference, really? First, no one fought WWII to save the Jews. Really, no one did. They fought WWII because Germany and Japan were trying to take over most (if not all, eventually) of the world. England, Europe and the USSR fought Germany to either prevent the loss of their nations or to get them back. China, and pretty much everyone else in Asia, fought the Japanese to either get their nations back or to defend against the Japanese. The US fought Japan because the US has been attacked. The US fought Germany because Germany declared war on the US, and because the US realized that without European allies they were pretty much screwed as it would only be a matter of time before either Germany or Japan or both came after the US to conquer and collect the western hemisphere’s resources. Much as it pains me to say, for most of the war _almost no one knew_ what the hell was happening to the Jews (and Gypsies, Poles, homosexuals, etc.) in the camps. It wasn’t until AFTER the war, when the Allies entered the camps, that it was clear what the hell had been going on (and it was hell indeed). Where people _did_ have some clue most of them were happy to throw the people in the camps under the bus to save their own hides. Frankly, as horribly tragic and horrific as the deaths of 6 million Jews were during WWII they represent only 10% of the death toll of that war. That doesn’t excuse it or make it OK, but put it into perspective. Lativia lost one person in 10. Lithuania 1 person in 6. Poland nearly 1 in 6. Ukraine 1 in 6. Belarus lost _1 in 4 people_. Overall the USSR lost between 1 in 7 and 1 in 6. That is just in Europe. There were places in Asia just as bad off. Approximately 2/3 of the 60 million people killed in WWII were civilian, not military. Please note: ALL figures are approximate and debatable due to a lack of meticulous record-keeping on the battlefield. Even the Germans, rather well known for their thorough record-keeping, don’t know how many exactly died on their side, in their camps, or in their military. Nonetheless, the scale of the numbers is probably reasonably close to the truth. **Please go back and learn some history. Then ask yourself: _how many people are you willing to sacrifice to change North Korea?_ Because an invasion would result in a multi-million death toll. It would be carnage such as the world hasn’t seen in 75 years.** If _anyone_ enters North Korea first thing the city of Seoul dies. Both China and the US will be drawn in - that’s three nuclear powers at war right there. There’s no reason to think other nearby nations (like Japan) won’t be drawn in. Even if it stays local it will be very, very, very ugly. ---
**Author:** ![mr.jp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/48db29/32.png) [@mr.jp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mr.jp)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2013, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-why-arent-we-focused-on-helping-them/663467/20 "2013-07-14T15:53:06Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > No shit. Add to that the fact that the overwhelming majority of Americans just don’t give a shit about North Korea in any fashion and you aren’t going to get a groundswell of support for anything but nuking them. This is my main question. Why don’t they give a shit? What about you personally, do you care? If you dont, why not, and if you do, why do you think most Americans are different? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korea-why-arent-we-focused-on-helping-them/663467.md?page=2)