# North Korean escape scenario **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [January 14, 2016, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korean-escape-scenario/743091 "2016-01-14T00:31:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2016, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korean-escape-scenario/743091/1 "2016-01-14T00:31:51Z")
You’re an average North Korean who one day has suddenly encountered a golden opportunity to flee the country. Assume the following conditions apply: 1. If you flee, your escape will be successful. You will not be caught. 2. You can only flee by yourself. You cannot bring anyone with you. 3. This is your only chance. There will never be a second chance to escape. 4. You will be granted asylum, refugee care and eventual citizenship in Japan, South Korea or some other highly prosperous country. Nobody can assassinate you. **5. When (not if) the North Korean authorities find that you fled, they will put your family in a labor camp for the rest of their lives.** Do you? ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Kobayashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4af34b/32.png) [@Mr.Kobayashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Kobayashi)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2016, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korean-escape-scenario/743091/2 "2016-01-14T00:34:18Z")
The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one. I’d have to stay put. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2016, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korean-escape-scenario/743091/3 "2016-01-14T01:21:12Z")
Probably not. Unless I thought I or someone in my family was about to be brought up for political crimes which means they/we would all go to prison anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Roderick\_Femm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/roderick_femm/32/14875_2.png) [@Roderick\_Femm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roderick_Femm)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2016, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korean-escape-scenario/743091/4 "2016-01-14T01:21:59Z")
Also, I probably don’t have any real idea of the actual conditions in that other prosperous country compared to my current conditions. I may only be aware that I would have enough to eat and a job that pays a living wage (for example) not that, in comparison, it would be heaven on earth. Not to say I would sacrifice my family in any case, but even less likely if I don’t have that information. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2016, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korean-escape-scenario/743091/5 "2016-01-14T01:34:50Z")
Nope. Wouldn’t even consider it. ---
**Author:** ![chacoguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/50afbb/32.png) [@chacoguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chacoguy)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2016, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korean-escape-scenario/743091/6 "2016-01-14T01:41:35Z")
I read an awful book about a NK defector that faced this very dilemma. He didn’t think twice. He explained that the very concept of ‘Love’ was alien to him. Family members were viewed as competition for food. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2016, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korean-escape-scenario/743091/7 "2016-01-14T01:46:22Z")
The scariest thing about the OP is there are real people who have faced that actual choice. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2016, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korean-escape-scenario/743091/8 "2016-01-14T01:57:56Z")
> [@chacoguy](#): > > I read an awful book about a NK defector that faced this very dilemma. He didn’t think twice. He explained that the very concept of ‘Love’ was alien to him. Family members were viewed as competition for food. Is it _Escape from Camp 14?_ ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2016, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korean-escape-scenario/743091/9 "2016-01-14T02:04:29Z")
Not sure yet. I am fleeing either because I am well off for a North Korean but I have access to information and I know what shithole the place is, or because I and my family are already starving to death. So if it’s the latter I’m not sure what the answer is. ---
**Author:** ![dracoi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/90db22/32.png) [@dracoi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dracoi)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2016, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korean-escape-scenario/743091/10 "2016-01-14T02:13:37Z")
> [@chacoguy](#): > > I read an awful book about a NK defector that faced this very dilemma. He didn’t think twice. He explained that the very concept of ‘Love’ was alien to him. Family members were viewed as competition for food. He escaped when everyone was already in a prison camp, right? That’s one scenario when I might go ahead and escape without the others. While conditions can always be made worse, it seems like going from civilian life to a prison camp is a worse change than going from bad to worse within a camp. I also might argue that escaping from the camp might enable me to help my family better by mobilizing international forces to help… but I’m not sure whether that opinion would be available to me if I were an actual NK citizen. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2016, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korean-escape-scenario/743091/11 "2016-01-14T02:40:47Z")
> [@chacoguy](#): > > I read an awful book about a NK defector that faced this very dilemma. He didn’t think twice. He explained that the very concept of ‘Love’ was alien to him. Family members were viewed as competition for food. Yup. Escape from Camp 14. Also Read The Girl With Seven Names. And a bunch of other books about NK. NO WAY IN HELL would I leave my family to face condition #5 in the OP. No. Way. But that’s because I am not like the guy born in Camp 14. I don’t doubt that family is a pretty meaningless word in such a situation. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2016, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korean-escape-scenario/743091/12 "2016-01-14T03:02:37Z")
Just how different is ordinary peasant life in North Korea from a prison camp, anyway? ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2016, 10:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korean-escape-scenario/743091/13 "2016-01-14T10:22:51Z")
Well… non-prison peasants get beds to sleep in instead of bare concrete. They’re allowed to wear gloves in winter. They have sources of protein other than whatever rats and insects they can catch. Spouses are allowed to have sex when they want instead of when the camps guards allow them to be in the same room together. Little things like that. Really, NK prison camps are like someone read _1984_ and similar books and thought hey, there are a lot of good ideas there _but they don’t go far enough_. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2016, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korean-escape-scenario/743091/14 "2016-01-14T13:08:08Z")
It’s worth noting that while still as politically repressive, economically a lot has changed in North Korea. The famine of the 1990s was triggered by the collapse of the Soviet Union-- food is now more abundant and starvation conditions are not normal. Private economic activity has been quietly tolerated for some time, leading to a small but existent middle class. Paired with the rise of China, ready access to cheap Chinese goods, and improved internal manufacturing, people have some access to consumer goods. About 1/3 of North Koreans now have cell phones. Still a terrible place with no freedom. But it’s not actually stuck in an eternal time warp. ---
**Author:** ![jtur88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e9c0ed/32.png) [@jtur88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jtur88)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2016, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korean-escape-scenario/743091/15 "2016-01-14T13:17:38Z")
Statistically, there is a greater likelihood in the USA than in North Korea that a person will sleep tonight incarcerated in a prison of some kind. Even by the most liberal of estimates of North Korea’s imprisoned population, which is not known with any accuracy. ---
**Author:** ![kopek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kopek/32/337_2.png) [@kopek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kopek)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2016, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korean-escape-scenario/743091/16 "2016-01-14T15:24:32Z")
It’s that family thing that makes me stay put. Some I would like to see in a Labor and Re-Education Camp but some of them I really love and need around me. ---
**Author:** ![Doctor\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctor_jackson/32/32_2.png) [@Doctor\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doctor_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2016, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korean-escape-scenario/743091/17 "2016-01-14T15:47:40Z")
> [@jtur88](#): > > Statistically, there is a greater likelihood in the USA than in North Korea that a person will sleep tonight incarcerated in a prison of some kind. Even by the most liberal of estimates of North Korea’s imprisoned population, which is not known with any accuracy. Even if true, that is a meaningless stat. in N. Korea people who find themselves an enemy of the State are often dealt with in a more economical method - they mysteriously “disappear”. Helps keep the incarceration rate down. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2016, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korean-escape-scenario/743091/18 "2016-01-14T16:07:46Z")
> [@Doctor\_Jackson](#): > > Even if true, that is a meaningless stat. in N. Korea people who find themselves an enemy of the State are often dealt with in a more economical method - they mysteriously “disappear”. Helps keep the incarceration rate down. I would call the incarceration rate in North Korea nearly 0. There are probably more people in my town who are free to leave at any time than there are in all of North Korea. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2016, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korean-escape-scenario/743091/19 "2016-01-14T16:41:10Z")
Absolutely not. I’d tough it out with my family. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2016, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korean-escape-scenario/743091/20 "2016-01-14T16:53:50Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > I would call the incarceration rate in North Korea nearly 0. There are probably more people in my town who are free to leave at any time than there are in all of North Korea. Don’t you mean nearly 100% [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korean-escape-scenario/743091.md?page=2)