# North Korean top general purged — more **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 10, 2013, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korean-top-general-purged-more/675979 "2013-12-10T15:10:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![iLemming](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/90db22/32.png) [@iLemming](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iLemming)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2013, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korean-top-general-purged-more/675979/1 "2013-12-10T15:10:53Z")
[**North Korea: Kim Jong-un Purged Uncle’s Name ‘Removed from KCNA Reports’**](http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/articles/528639/20131209/north-korea-kim-jong-un-jang-song.htm) > [@](#): > > \*The powerful uncle of North Korea’s Supreme Leader Kim Jong-un, who was removed for criminal acts that “baffled the imagination”, has had his name removed from the official KCNA news agency database. > > In a process reminiscent of George Orwell’s 1984, Jang Song-thaek was ousted from the post of vice-chairman of the National Defence Commission and expelled from the ruling Workers’ Party during a turbulent meeting of its politburo.\* The South Koreans seem to think this will lead to more sabre rattling from the North and subsequent instability. They’ve even gone as far as to declare a state of high alert in the wake of this news. An analyst said this guy was the closest, most reliable ‘friend’ the Chinese had from the Kim cult and, despite their dismissal of the situation as an ‘internal political matter’, they’re surely very concerned about these events. What’s this going to mean for the region if even the Chinese are cut off? Can we expect another round of “satellite” launches? Perhaps some more nuclear posturing? How will we keep the reigns on Kim if their one tenuous intermediary are now more or less cut out of the loop? How, if at all, does this play into the whole East China Sea saga? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2013, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korean-top-general-purged-more/675979/2 "2013-12-10T15:28:11Z")
> [@iLemming](#): > > The South Koreans seem to think this will lead to more sabre rattling from the North and subsequent instability. At any rate, it will lead to a spoiled, impulsive 30-yo leader going without the counsel of older and wiser heads. ---
**Author:** ![iLemming](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/90db22/32.png) [@iLemming](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iLemming)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2013, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korean-top-general-purged-more/675979/3 "2013-12-10T15:32:38Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > At any rate, it will lead to a spoiled, impulsive 30-yo leader going without the counsel of older and wiser heads. Well, he obviously thinks he’s ready to graduate. Just thought I’d add this, as it made me lol: > [@](#): > > “Chang pretended to uphold the party and leader **but was engrossed in such factional acts as dreaming different dreams** and involving himself in double-dealing behind the scenes.” [BBC](http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-25295312) The nerve! I hope they weren’t of the ‘wet’ variety… ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2013, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korean-top-general-purged-more/675979/4 "2013-12-10T16:11:17Z")
> [@iLemming](#): > > What’s this going to mean for the region if even the Chinese are cut off? You’re overstating the case here. The Chinese aren’t cut off. They’ve merely lost the liaison they thought most amenable to their agenda. North Korean can’t function without Chinese support and this isn’t even remotely near cutting ties with them. Yeah, there’s probably going to be an uptick in saber rattling and maybe some deliberate provocation, but it’s not like North Korea was the most stable region in the world in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2013, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korean-top-general-purged-more/675979/5 "2013-12-10T16:29:50Z")
> [@iLemming](#): > > The nerve! I hope they weren’t of the ‘wet’ variety… I think it’s safe to assume that the dreams in question were the MLK kind, not the unconscious hallucination one :). That being said, it’s still North Korea and they’re well into surreal by now, so who knows. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2013, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korean-top-general-purged-more/675979/6 "2013-12-10T17:29:04Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > At any rate, it will lead to a spoiled, impulsive 30-yo leader going without the counsel of older and wiser heads. This was fairly predictable. He’s a young leader trying to assert his authority, and he has no use for remnants of the old regime. Remember, “older and wiser” people are people who have the respect of others, which means that their power doesn’t derive solely from the Leader. Such people are a threat and must be eliminated. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2013, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korean-top-general-purged-more/675979/7 "2013-12-10T19:17:12Z")
“Dreaming different dreams and…double-dealing behind the scenes.” Sounds like lyrics from a forgotten 80s synth-pop band. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2013, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korean-top-general-purged-more/675979/8 "2013-12-12T21:54:42Z")
They may have just executed him. > **[HuffPost - Breaking News, U.S. and World News](https://www.huffpost.com/?err_code=404&err_url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.huffingtonpost.com%2F2013%2F12%2F12%2Fjang-song-thaek-executed_n_4435294.html)** > > Read the latest headlines, news stories, and opinion from Politics, Entertainment, Life, Perspectives, and more. ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2013, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korean-top-general-purged-more/675979/9 "2013-12-12T21:58:51Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > They may have just executed him. > > [HuffPost - Breaking News, U.S. and World News | HuffPost](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/12/12/jang-song-thaek-executed_n_4435294.html) Here’s a link to a translation of the KCNA press release. [http://www.nknews.org/kcna-watch/kcna-article/?0038638e](http://www.nknews.org/kcna-watch/kcna-article/?0038638e) That’s quite some statement. :eek: ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2013, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korean-top-general-purged-more/675979/10 "2013-12-12T22:14:03Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > They may have just executed him. > > [HuffPost - Breaking News, U.S. and World News | HuffPost](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/12/12/jang-song-thaek-executed_n_4435294.html) I wonder if he gets a family discount on the bullet? ---
**Author:** ![Frazzled](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/frazzled/32/3368_2.png) [@Frazzled](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frazzled)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2013, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korean-top-general-purged-more/675979/11 "2013-12-12T22:32:13Z")
North Korea is so fascinating - I heard a description the other day that the leadership there is a snake pit and Kim Jong Un is the hamster. The question here is - was this execution a show of force or a show of weakness? We’ll know soon enough but if I played the Death Pool in the Game Room I’d certainly have Kim Jong Un on my list - provided he makes it to 2014. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2013, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korean-top-general-purged-more/675979/12 "2013-12-12T22:35:56Z")
_ **Rumor:** _ Kim is selling off NK’s Gold reserves to Chinese banks. The bandied figure sold, over the last 6 months, is 450 tons. Is his economy tanking? Or, does he need to roll out his tanks? ---
**Author:** ![LawMonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d6d6ee/32.png) [@LawMonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LawMonkey)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2013, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korean-top-general-purged-more/675979/13 "2013-12-12T22:42:14Z")
> [@KCNA](#): > > However, despicable human scum Jang, who was worse than a dog, perpetrated thrice-cursed acts of treachery in betrayal of such profound trust and warmest paternal love shown by the party and the leader for him. Worse than a dog! Thrice-cursed treachery! I can only assume it was the mustachio-twirling that gave this “traitor to the nation for all ages” away. I get the feeling that if we could bring Uncle Joe back for a day and let him see the modern DPRK, he’d be like “Kim, comrade. Dial it back a bit, man. You’re giving my bad reputation a bad reputation!” ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2013, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korean-top-general-purged-more/675979/14 "2013-12-12T22:47:29Z")
> [@Frazzled](#): > > The question here is - was this execution a show of force or a show of weakness? We’ll know soon enough but if I played the Death Pool in the Game Room I’d certainly have Kim Jong Un on my list - provided he makes it to 2014. I may be eating these words, but I’m going to interpret it as a show of force. Jang’s wife (Kim’s aunt) was, according to accounts, involved in the purge. Kim has already removed many of his father’s (and his grandfather’s!) confidants, acolytes, and spear-carriers from policy positions in both the party and the army, and I think Jang may have been lagging behind events. What I find most interesting is that Kim’s older brother was, again–according to reports–actively involved, to the point of carrying arms, in the purging of the Jang faction. So I’m going to guess no fratricide coming up. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2013, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korean-top-general-purged-more/675979/15 "2013-12-13T00:06:40Z")
You have to wonder how long a leader can survive when there isn’t enough money to light the streets at night. A sane person would be paranoid about an uprising. A crazy person would be acting on that paranoia like there’s no tomorrow. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2013, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korean-top-general-purged-more/675979/16 "2013-12-13T00:30:17Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > You have to wonder how long a leader can survive when there isn’t enough money to light the streets at night. Evidence suggests that that is not a problem for North Korean leaders. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2013, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korean-top-general-purged-more/675979/17 "2013-12-13T00:55:00Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > Evidence suggests that that is not a problem for North Korean leaders. If you’re running an evil empire and you kill off the people close to you then what’s left are people who are not close to you. The ones who aren’t well fed and living in the dark. He’s taken a train that is pointed toward a cliff and increased the speed. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2013, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korean-top-general-purged-more/675979/18 "2013-12-13T01:30:44Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > If you’re running an evil empire and you kill off the people close to you then what’s left are people who are not close to you. Oh, for Pete’s sake, have you no knowledge of history at all? He’s killing off people who were close to his father in order to advance people who are close to him. That’s a strategy as old as recorded history. And that’s not what you questioned. You questioned the ability of the N.K. regime to survive given that it cannot provide streetlights at night. That has not been shown to be a problem for him, or his father, or his grandfather. ---
**Author:** ![iLemming](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/90db22/32.png) [@iLemming](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iLemming)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2013, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korean-top-general-purged-more/675979/19 "2013-12-13T02:14:47Z")
They were just discussing this on radio and the conclusion was this demonstrates instability in the regime and a pressing need for li’l Kim to lay the smack down. The overt way in which this guy was publicly lambasted also points to there being more than Chang that the current dynasty wanted to send a ominous message to. Moreover, the fact this guy had been the right hand of Jong-Ill, had been in the position for decades and was li’l Kim’s own uncle, demonstrates some serious insecurity on the current lineage’s part. As far as the West is concerned, we better watch this space for some upcoming errant missile launches, ship sinking and the like. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2013, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korean-top-general-purged-more/675979/20 "2013-12-13T02:33:43Z")
> [@iLemming](#): > > Moreover, the fact this guy had been the right hand of Jong-Ill, had been in the position for decades and was li’l Kim’s own uncle, demonstrates some serious insecurity on the current lineage’s part. Your radio needs to grasp some facts. Jang was not the right hand of Kim Jong-Il; in fact he was purged in the mid-2000s, re-emerging as a power player only in 2009. Also, it’s unclear that his execution demonstrates insecurity. It could as easily demonstrate Kim Jong-un’s sense of confidence in his control. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korean-top-general-purged-more/675979.md?page=2)