# North Korean top general purged — more **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 10, 2013, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korean-top-general-purged-more/675979 "2013-12-10T15:10:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2013, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korean-top-general-purged-more/675979/21 "2013-12-13T02:38:21Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > You have to wonder how long a leader can survive when there isn’t enough money to light the streets at night. A sane person would be paranoid about an uprising. A crazy person would be acting on that paranoia like there’s no tomorrow. Famine killed 10% of the country in the 90s, if that didn’t break the system I doubt grinding poverty will. I have no idea what’ll break the system, but I doubt ‘the people’ (meaning the bottom 90%) will be the cause seeing how terrorized, disorganized and brainwashed they seem to be. That is my opinion though. When the system does fall it will probably fall because the elites (not the super elite, but the endless thousands of military, business and political elite) realize their lives will be better under reform and start allowing more behavior opposed by central leadership. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2013, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korean-top-general-purged-more/675979/22 "2013-12-13T02:52:04Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > Oh, for Pete’s sake, have you no knowledge of history at all? He’s killing off people who were close to his father in order to advance people who are close to him. That’s a strategy as old as recorded history. And that’s not what you questioned. > > You questioned the ability of the N.K. regime to survive given that it cannot provide streetlights at night. That has not been shown to be a problem for him, or his father, or his grandfather. Starving your people has always caused problems historically. And killing off the people around you just tells their replacements that they’re life expectancy is at the pleasure of the King. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2013, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korean-top-general-purged-more/675979/23 "2013-12-13T02:53:49Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > Famine killed 10% of the country in the 90s, if that didn’t break the system I doubt grinding poverty will. > > I have no idea what’ll break the system, but I doubt ‘the people’ (meaning the bottom 90%) will be the cause seeing how terrorized, disorganized and brainwashed they seem to be. That is my opinion though. When the system does fall it will probably fall because the elites (not the super elite, but the endless thousands of military, business and political elite) realize their lives will be better under reform and start allowing more behavior opposed by central leadership. Or there will be a military coup. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2013, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korean-top-general-purged-more/675979/24 "2013-12-13T03:06:30Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Starving your people has always caused problems historically. And killing off the people around you just tells their replacements that they’re life expectancy is at the pleasure of the King. I honestly don’t understand what point you’re trying to make. You started out claiming that the lack of streetlights would cause a revolt. Now you’re claiming that it is starvation that will. Neither has. In re killing off the people around you: please look at the history of young/minority heirs in a country with a tradition of hereditary leadership. Seriously. In general, either the heir or the regent gets killed. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2013, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korean-top-general-purged-more/675979/25 "2013-12-13T03:08:35Z")
> [@](#): > > traitor _for all ages_ Jang Song Thaek I guess that answers **iLemming** ’s question – his “different dreams” were the family-friendly kind, not the “wet” kind. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2013, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korean-top-general-purged-more/675979/26 "2013-12-13T03:12:10Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > I may be eating these words, but I’m going to interpret it as a show of force. Jang’s wife (Kim’s aunt) was, according to accounts, involved in the purge. Kim has already removed many of his father’s (and his grandfather’s!) confidants, acolytes, and spear-carriers from policy positions in both the party and the army, and I think Jang may have been lagging behind events. Truly, North Korea has a dynasty that just cries out for a new Suetonius. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2013, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korean-top-general-purged-more/675979/27 "2013-12-13T03:14:25Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > I honestly don’t understand what point you’re trying to make. You started out claiming that the lack of streetlights would cause a revolt. Now you’re claiming that it is starvation that will. Neither has. > > In re killing off the people around you: please look at the history of young/minority heirs in a country with a tradition of hereditary leadership. Seriously. In general, either the heir or the regent gets killed. The street lighting is just a visual example of the severity of the money shortage. That should be obvious. History is full of rebellions that are fed by the starving masses and delivered by a military coup. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2013, 5:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korean-top-general-purged-more/675979/28 "2013-12-13T05:51:12Z")
> [@Baron\_Greenback](#): > > Here’s a link to a translation of the KCNA press release. > > [http://www.nknews.org/kcna-watch/kcna-article/?0038638e](http://www.nknews.org/kcna-watch/kcna-article/?0038638e) > > That’s quite some statement. :eek: Reading that statement, I noticed a couple of things. First, the statement referred to “the peerlessly great men of Mt. Paektu.” Is the propaganda machine spreading the BS that the current dictator has also been born on “the sacred mountain” like the machine says KJI was (when, in fact, he was born in Russia)? Next, the propagandists seem to be quite fond of adjectives, the more the better. Maybe they could jack up the cash flow into the country by turning their hands to romance novels. ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2013, 7:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korean-top-general-purged-more/675979/29 "2013-12-13T07:52:10Z")
> [@](#): > > When his cunning move proved futile and the decision that Kim Jong Un was elected vice-chairman of the Central Military Commission of the Workers’ Party of Korea at the Third Conference of the WPK in reflection of the unanimous will of all party members, service personnel and people was proclaimed, making all participants break into enthusiastic cheers that shook the conference hall, **he behaved so arrogantly and insolently as unwillingly standing up from his seat and half-heartedly clapping, touching off towering resentment of our service personnel and people**. Imagine if your meetings at work were like that. ---
**Author:** ![drewtwo99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d07c76/32.png) [@drewtwo99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewtwo99)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2013, 10:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korean-top-general-purged-more/675979/30 "2013-12-13T10:00:21Z")
The scariest part about the announcement is that one of his crimes was half-heartedly clapping and “unwillingly” standing up for the ovation when Kim Jong-Un was “elected” to lead the country. This is why you always see such unbelievable displays of affection, tears, cheers, etc, toward these leaders from their people. Because if you don’t clap, cheer, or cry hard enough when it’s expected of you, you’ve committed a crime against the state and will be under suspicion for treason. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2013, 10:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korean-top-general-purged-more/675979/31 "2013-12-13T10:22:59Z")
> [@drewtwo99](#): > > The scariest part about the announcement is that one of his crimes was half-heartedly clapping and “unwillingly” standing up for the ovation when Kim Jong-Un was “elected” to lead the country. This is why you always see such unbelievable displays of affection, tears, cheers, etc, toward these leaders from their people. Because if you don’t clap, cheer, or cry hard enough when it’s expected of you, you’ve committed a crime against the state and will be under suspicion for treason. :rolleyes: At least they tried to identify actual crimes and had a trial, no matter how much of a show. The US on the other hand, just[perfers to kill some without such niceties](http://www.cnn.com/2013/12/12/world/meast/yemen-u-s-drone-wedding/index.html). ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2013, 11:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korean-top-general-purged-more/675979/32 "2013-12-13T11:56:08Z")
> [@](#): > > When his cunning move proved futile and the decision that Kim Jong Un was elected vice-chairman of the Central Military Commission of the Workers’ Party of Korea at the Third Conference of the WPK in reflection of the unanimous will of all party members, service personnel and people was proclaimed, making all participants break into enthusiastic cheers that shook the conference hall, he behaved so arrogantly and insolently as unwillingly standing up from his seat and half-heartedly clapping, touching off towering resentment of our service personnel and people. The executions will continue until morale improves! ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2013, 12:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korean-top-general-purged-more/675979/33 "2013-12-13T12:09:13Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > At any rate, it will lead to a spoiled, impulsive 30-yo leader going without the counsel of older and wiser heads. Who he obviously wasn’t willing to listen to in the first place, so no real change there. ---
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2013, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korean-top-general-purged-more/675979/34 "2013-12-13T12:37:07Z")
> [@drewtwo99](#): > > The scariest part about the announcement is that one of his crimes was half-heartedly clapping and “unwillingly” standing up for the ovation when Kim Jong-Un was “elected” to lead the country. This is why you always see such unbelievable displays of affection, tears, cheers, etc, toward these leaders from their people. Because if you don’t clap, cheer, or cry hard enough when it’s expected of you, you’ve committed a crime against the state and will be under suspicion for treason. “I didn’t get a harrumph outta that guy!” ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2013, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korean-top-general-purged-more/675979/35 "2013-12-13T15:11:56Z")
> [@Zakalwe](#): > > “I didn’t get a harrumph outta that guy!” “You watch your ass!” ---
**Author:** ![pdunderhill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/4bbf92/32.png) [@pdunderhill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pdunderhill)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2013, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korean-top-general-purged-more/675979/36 "2013-12-13T15:20:22Z")
An old adage comes to mind ‘Wonderful things happen when you plant the seeds of discontent in a garden of arseholes’. Couldn’t happen to a nicer regime, literally, Peter ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2013, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korean-top-general-purged-more/675979/37 "2013-12-13T15:37:53Z")
> [@Koxinga](#): > > Imagine if your meetings at work were like that. They are. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2013, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korean-top-general-purged-more/675979/38 "2013-12-13T15:51:41Z")
> [@Frazzled](#): > > North Korea is so fascinating - I heard a description the other day that the leadership there is a snake pit and Kim Jong Un is the hamster. Right now, he looks rather like the baddest snake in the pit. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2013, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korean-top-general-purged-more/675979/39 "2013-12-13T17:02:09Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Right now, he looks rather like the baddest snake in the pit. Yup. As **Frank** so ably pointed out, this is pretty much inevitable. The New Boss always marginalizes anyone tied to the Old Boss. Sometimes that comes with the system–in the US, the Cabinet changes with a new administration (and the very few exceptions are [newsworthy](http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2009/feb/10/barack-obama/Three-Republicans-Cabinet-Most/)), and that shakeup affects civil servants as well. In a more, um, force-oriented regime like NK, it comes with imprisonment and execution. But it’s always about getting rid of the old guys to consolidate power. ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2013, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korean-top-general-purged-more/675979/40 "2013-12-14T01:25:39Z")
I am not currently finding the long full text of the official North Korean English language news story anywhere on the web. That’s because the [http://www.kcna.kp](http://www.kcna.kp) (Korean Central News Agency) .kp domain web site is down. And their other web site, [http://www.kcna.co.jp/](http://www.kcna.co.jp/), which uses Japan’s domain, is not yet reporting the execution. As for the Western web sites linked on this thread, they feature long pieces of the news story, but leave out most of Jang’s confession. And even when www.kcna.kp was up, there was no permalink to the story. And the button that gets you the second half of the story was easy to miss. Last night, thinking this was the kind of web page that might conceivably be lost to history, I saved the full story. And so, for anyone interested, my following link may be the only long-term way to read the full story: > **[Google Sites: Sign-in](https://accounts.google.com/v3/signin/identifier?dsh=S319783392%3A1686802238748231&continue=https%3A%2F%2Fsites.google.com%2Fsite%2Fsites%2Fsystem%2Ferrors%2FWebspaceNotFound%3Fpath%3D%2Farchiveofhardtofindnews%2Fhard-to-find-news-items%2FTraitorJangSongTheakExecuted.mht&ffgf=1&followup=https%3A%2F%2Fsites.google.com%2Fsite%2Fsites%2Fsystem%2Ferrors%2FWebspaceNotFound%3Fpath%3D%2Farchiveofhardtofindnews%2Fhard-to-find-news-items%2FTraitorJangSongTheakExecuted.mht&ifkv=Af_xneGL52gCv6o2ZdSAhGJRNVaWBjNGji0-V30bvmskY06rHdVTdPJ9YPWEv2Q_blAmldOY2yZMQg&passive=1209600&service=jotspot&flowName=GlifWebSignIn&flowEntry=ServiceLogin)** > > Access Google Sites with a personal Google account or Google Workspace account (for business use). The above link, which I hosted on Google Sites, may thus be the only way to obtain the full “Traitor Jang Song Thaek Executed” news story. Depending on your browser, clicking on my link may cause a download of the web page as a file, which must then be launched. If anyone can find a full story permalink I missed, or explain how I can fix my Google Sites uploaded file so it automatically opens, ideas are welcome. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korean-top-general-purged-more/675979.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/north-korean-top-general-purged-more/675979.md?page=3)